I have a question please

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Everything in there i believe except for the part about Tommy.

Really? You believe the quote from A.C. De La Rive, a derivative of the Taxil hoax, which has been known to be a hoax for over a hundred years?

Or the pernicious lie about the Shriner's Fez?

Or the false idea that I was told that my apron would save me at some "Great White Throne Judgement?" (By the way, being a literalist about the Revelation of St. John the Divine (an apocalyptic document, therefore meant to be interpreted symbolically), that's the sine qua non of raving loony-dom)

Or perhaps the absolutely absurd idea that a block-headed ignoramus sleazy lunatic charlatan like Jack Chick could ever lead you into salvation???

[edit on 10-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

I have a question, too.
Detective Perez, why have you been bashing an organization that you clearly know so little about? The books containing the knowledge you seek are (for the most part) readily availiable. Of course, if you approach any "investigation" with a preconceived notion of what you are going to find, it is very easy to make the evidence fit your hypothesis.

Sing praises & pass the cupcakes - DP has concluded his investigation!

OMG This right here is why some people should never be allowed to procreate!!!

Main Entry: in�ves�ti�gate
Pronunciation: in-'ves-t&-"gAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -gat�ed; -gat�ing
Etymology: Latin investigatus, past participle of investigare to track, investigate, from in- + vestigium footprint, track
transitive senses : to observe or study by close examination and systematic inquiry
intransitive senses : to make a systematic examination; especially : to conduct an official inquiry
- in�ves�ti�ga�tion /-"ves-t&-'gA-sh&n/ noun
- in�ves�ti�ga�tion�al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective
- in�ves�ti�ga�tive /-'ves-t&-"gA-tiv/ adjective
- in�ves�ti�ga�tor /-"gA-t&r/ noun
- in�ves�ti�ga�to�ry /-'ves-ti-g&-"tOr-E, -"tor-/ adjective

You my friend have a different definition of investigate then we do.

By a show of hands how many people are just so flabbergasted (yes I used that word twice today hahah), that you've actually deleted responses to these threads, because you felt all intellegent thought being sucked out of the room because of these guys?

So I will try one last time to explain. We all believe in god. We all love god. My friends here lead a solid and moral life, which we believe god wants (and we want). We each have a different and unique relationship with god. We are solid enough in our individual faiths to respect others and theirs, even if that relationship differs. God is god, no matter how you hash it, he doesn't change, only how each of us choices to serve him does.

About Satan - while yes Satan may be considered a "deity" he isn't a supreme being, he isn't god. No matter if you follow him or not, he's still not the big guy, because Satan's whole flight is to fight the big guy.

I have questions for you.

Do you think everyone you go to church with would define god the same way you have?

So you think "God" should be taken out of the pledge of allegiance?

BTW, all deplomacy aside, yes my god and your god are different. My god is tollerant, loving, and beyond the assinine definitions of men. He doesn't play these petty games of your god, my god, which god are you talking about. He isn't so insecure that he needs me to go through life never questioning my surroundings, never questioning my beliefs, never questioning my faith, and never questioning him. My god wants me to believe and love him, and he knows for me to do that I must question. After all I am only using the brain and skills he bestowed unto me.

But also as a side note I often say that everyone believes in "their" god. Is it the same god, yes, I say it is different and "their" own god, because I understand and except others have different relationships with him. And each persons relationship with god is their own, and special, and not for anyone to question, define, or regulate.

To me the wonder of god isn't in what he has done, or what I will get in the kindom of heaven, but what he allows me to learn, live and love here on earth.

And that was my attempt, though I'm sure will show no fruit, at bridging the gap between ones ears. Atleast in my humble opinion. Sorry for the ramblings, I just went on a tangent .

[edit on 11-8-2004 by Darktalon]

Others have tried to www.chick.com us before. What makes you think your effort will be any more successful?
Or, are you a reincarnation of those other posters?

The Wonderful World of Jack Chick

www.revolting.com...

Headline quote from webpage:

"Did you know that Christmas is actually a Satanic holiday based on Baal worship from ancient Babylon? That Halloween is a Druidic ritual of human sacrifice to Satan? That the Pope is the Antichrist?
If the answer is yes, chances are your sorry-assed soul has been saved by Jack Chick, comic book evangelist."

Christmas is the day we unknowingly worship Osiris. December 25th was his birthday. December 25th was Not Jesus' birthday.

Not to mention Emperor Constantine made the day of worship for christians on Sunday in honor of the Sun god he worshiped. Saturday is the true sabbath and the 7th day of the week (Jesus worshipped on Saturday yet Christians dont). Sunday is the first day of the week. Therefore i refuse to go to church on sundays.

It is no doubt that Emperor Constantine mixed Paganism with Christianity to keep his power.

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Christmas is the day we unknowingly worship Osiris. December 25th was his birthday. December 25th was Not Jesus' birthday.

Ha! OK. Let me get this straight.

I wake up on Christmas day, and think to myself "Rejoice! On this day, Emmanuel is come to Israel!" Then, I proceed to show other people the most compassion and decency I do all year, remembering the example of He who died upon the Cross. Then, I go around singing songs all day about how wonderful it is that Jesus came, and all about the wonderful things He did. Then, late at night, I head to church for Mass, where we sing many of the same songs, listen to talk about Jesus, take the communion meant to symbolically unite us in community with Christ, give the sign of the Cross, and give sign of peace to each other ("Peace be with you" in my church). Then, I go to bed, praising God for sending us such a precious gift.

All that time, I was actually worshipping Osiris, eh? Maybe that's why, at Christmas, people get together and provide oblation to Isis for sewing Osiris back together? Perhaps that's why we all spit on images of Seth every Christmas day? And this explains that old Yuletide tradition of bowing toward the Nile!!!! Of course!!!!

I'm very glad that you know the day of the year on which Jesus was born. Would you care to share it with the rest of us so that we can change the date of our Mass to Christ (you know... the Christ-mas?)

Not to mention Emperor Constantine made the day of worship for christians on Sunday in honor of the Sun god he worshiped.

zOMG! Horror of horrors! We might be worshipping on the wrong day! After all, when the Pope eliminated several days in the Middle Ages in order to correct the Calendar, God intended that all along. And, after all, we are still using a lunar calendar like the ancient Isrealites, so our days must correspond exactly in a long like stretching back exactly to the time at which Moses received the commandments from God at Mt. Sinai.

"zOMG! Horror of horrors! We might be worshipping on the wrong day!"

Undermining the Sabbath day are we? Sabbath begins sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday. Do God a favor and worship on the day he put aside.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Do God a favor and worship on the day he put aside.

I ask again, by what special knowledge do you claim to know that what we now call "Saturday" is the same "Saturday" going back all the way to the origin of life on Earth? As I said before, the calendar we now use is drastically changed from the one being used in 1 AD. If God is such a stickler about using the "right day" that he demands that you worship on the same named weekday, why does he not require that every Sabbath throughout history should be a multiple of seven days from every other Sabbath?

P.S. It is theologically impossible for me to "Do God a favour." There is no possible transfer of favour from myself to God. This is a commonly accepted theological principle.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

It is over him AK, he doesn't understand that over 4000 years of civilization we have no clue what the real sabbath is. We know the calenders have changed, days have changed, gone away, been added. In DP world it has always been the same, so with certianty he can speak of such things, after all he was there.

And can we get someone with more knowledge then what Dan Brown wrote about. Christians started Christman, not Constintine.

Friday night to saturday night,,, would you be a Jehovas(sp?) Witness?

No, im not a jehovahs witness. Im a follower of Jesus. As in I do not eat food that is not Kosher. I follow the Sabbath as Jesus did. I celebrate passover sader and I celebrate Easter. I celebrate the high holidays and January 6th on the Epiphany. I receive communion every saturday morning. I deny the authority of the Pope.

I believe that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, from the Bloodline of David through Joseph. I call him my King. I am a Jew as the Apostles were with Jesus before Roman instrusion.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

[edit on 11-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
No, im not a jehovahs witness. Im a follower of Jesus. As in I do not eat food that is not Kosher. I follow the Sabbath as Jesus did. I celebrate passover sader

Is that any relation to a passover seder?

Seriously, though, I salute your dedication to your beliefs. It's your hatred of the beliefs of others I find a little hard to take.

[edit on 11-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]

"The birth of Jesus Christ has been set at Christmas&ldots;But up to the fourth century, the birth of the Christian Savior was celebrated on the sixth of January."

Jackson, John G. "Christianity Before Christ"

"Certain it is that the winter solstice, which (was)&ldots;assigned to the twenty-fifth of December, was celebrated in antiquity (by the ancient Kemites (Egyptians)) as the birthday of the sun, and that festal lights or fires were kindled on this joyous occasion. (The) Christian festival is&ldots;a continuation (corruption) under a Christian name of this old solar festivity; for the ecclesiastical authorities saw fit, about the end of the third or beginning of the fourth century, arbitrarily to transfer the nativity of Christ from the sixth of January to the twenty-fifth of December, for the purpose of diverting to their Lord the worship (recognition) which the (ancient Kemites) paid on that day to the Sun."

Fraser, Sir James George. "The Golden Bough"

home.att.net...

"For the first three hundred years of the current era, there was no festivity of the birth of Jesus. Some churches celebrated Jesus' birthday in the spring time and some celebrated it on January 6 (Epiphany).

Early in the fourth century, the Roman church decreed that December 25 would henceforth be recognized as the birthday of Christ. The Eastern churches refused to accept Christmas until 375 C.E., and the churches in Jerusalem rejected the December 25 date until the seventh century.

There are still some Eastern Rite churches that continue to celebrate the Epiphany date.

The Pilgrims outlawed Christmas. They also refused to use the 1611 King James Bible!"

www.locksley.com...



[edit on 11-8-2004 by DetectivePerez]

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
"The birth of Jesus Christ has been set at Christmas&ldots;But up to the fourth century, the birth of the Christian Savior was celebrated on the sixth of January."

Jackson, John G. "Christianity Before Christ"

Do you have any evidence of this other than the fact that John G. Jackson said it? (John G. Jackson is an atheist, by the way... I quote from www.africawithin.com... :

John G. Jackson is an educator, lecturer, author, and man of principle. He was born on April 1st, 1907 into a family of methodists. As he remembers now, he has been an Atheist since he could think.

)

Look it up for yourself. I didn't purposely search for John G. Jackson and never knew who he was before hand. So please don't point out information I did not bring into the conversation.

If you didn't realize I had to put his name underneath the quote so i wouldn't get another warning. And by the way, i posted another link to a website. Did you read that?

I'm new here, so before I tell you what I think I'll tell you a little about who I am. I am a Christian college student who goes to a small Christian school in San Diego. I am not a mason nor do I know a whole lot about masonry. I do know that a lot of Christians have a problem with it, yet in my research I have not read a convincing argument about why they are so "evil". Anyways, enough about that, now that you know who I am I will tell you what I think.

I don't think it matters when we celebrate Christmas or what day we worship God. So Christmas was changed to be on the same day as an old pagan holiday. This may not have been done for good reasons but it was done and it is in the past. When we celebrate Christmas today we are not celebrating a pagan holiday we are celebrating and worshiping Christ.

As far as the Sabbath day goes

Originally posted by DetectivePerez
Not to mention Emperor Constantine made the day of worship for christians on Sunday in honor of the Sun god he worshiped. Saturday is the true sabbath and the 7th day of the week (Jesus worshipped on Saturday yet Christians dont). Sunday is the first day of the week. Therefore i refuse to go to church on sundays.

I won't argue that Constantine was a good guy, I have no doubt that he converted to Christianity for political reasons, but as far as the Sabbath goes, does it really matter which day we worship God? Besides aren't we supposed to worship God everyday? I don't think the Bible says that the Sabbath is the day of worship but actually the day of rest. That being said, you could rest on Saturday and go to church on Sunday and you would be observing the Sabbath on Saturday. Also, do you think it really matters which day we choose as our day of rest. Do you really think that God is so anal that we all have to observe the same day of rest? Personally I think that God just wanted to make sure that we don't over-work ourselves so the idea of the Sabbath is for our own good and it doesn't matter what day we choose as the Sabbath day as long as we choose one.

Well I think that the more we say well, God won't really care right... the more we get away from the teachings. It is like this. Hmm, We don't have to worship on the sabbath... its ok. Then hmmm, do I really have to go to temple or church... as long as I pray to God it shouldn't matter tight? Then into well, I really like this girl and I know that I am going to marry her so its ok if I have sex with her right? Then it becomes. Well, I think that Gay Marriages should be legal, God would not be so anal about that right?

See where I am going here?

I totally agree with you, we have to worship on the Sabbath...

AND EVERY OTHER DAY OF THE WEEK!

The Sabbath day isn't about one special day that we worship God while we don't on any other day of the week. The Sabbath is simply the day of rest. I don't understand why the specific day matters and I do not see how observing the Sabbath on a different day can be equated with premarital sex or legalizing gay marriage. Plus I have not seen anywhere in the Bible that it says that the Sabbath is on the last day of the week. It says "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD ." But who is to say that the first of those six days is Sunday and not Thursday or some other day? And who is to say that the day God actually started creating the world corrsponds to our Sunday?

Well...I still know anythiing about the truth of fraternities...but I have learned that you all argue well!


[edit on 8/11/2004 by LadyV]