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posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by Sauron
reply to post by anonshanks
 


Sorry but you had appeared off line for the last ten minutes, I have edited you post.

Sauron
Super-Moderator


No need to apologize, it is I that was in violation of your terms here. I'm not sure how long you have to edit posts anyway, so I'm not sure that I would have been back in time to do it myself. The end result is all is fixed, and the thread is still open.
Both are pluses in my book.

Thanks,
Shanks




posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by Seiko
reply to post by anonshanks
 


Thank you for your reply. I apologize for the brief post before but I feared this thread would get 404'd.

Some on this site have accused anon, lulz, and others of being a false flag to actually help usher in the era of a controlled internet. Do you think the actions of anon might help to bring this to fruition faster then if you'd do no action at all?

now as to the anon motto, doing it for the lolz, whilst fun might actually keep some from taking your side. Humour is whimsical at best. There's no way to predict when something may strike someone funny and they do something that can't be praised.

This country, the u.s. we'll say for now has a fascination with the honourable criminal types, jesse james, bonnie and clyde or so. There's a far chance that if anon stood strong for free speech and rights that they could garner great sympathy towards the cause.

My problem is the perceived notion of the lolz. While I'm not really a buzzkill, I find it makes it hard to predict reasonably where anon might fall on certain issues.


Your first question is a very good one, and the answer is difficult to determine. While we may or may not have brought about negative reaction faster than without, I think that we can both agree that it would come at some point. You already see it as a tactic by many governments. I see it only as another instrument of fear used to oppress the masses and keep them in check, while making many groups out to be the villains. Since the creation of the internet and especially as a platform for public use as a means of interaction, this era in time was inevitable. I feel that it is a double edged question. While we may have struck fear in governments, causing them to act faster, we have also awakened people more quickly than they may have been if no actions by groups like wikileaks, anonymous or lulz (add many others to the list). I hope that is clear. I don't sleep a lot and sometimes my mind is like a run on sentence. Again, people must realize that there are but a small few within the collective that have done anything illegal in the eyes of governments. Many of us are merely activist with our own passions and ideals, but have come together for the common goal of fundamental freedoms.

While there are some that do things, as you say, for the lulz.. it does not represent what it appears to represent, or what it is made out to represent. Many members find humor as a form of expression, and a fundamental cause for freedom.. though I can assure you the cause is very serious. Humor is just one of the many tools that people use to deal with the sad state that we find our world in, but not the only tool.

As a collective, "doing it for the lulz" isn't really our motto, though like I said, it may be for some. "We do not forgive, we do not forget" would be a better representation of the group as a whole if you were to ask me personally for example. We do not forgive or tolerate corruption and suppression of free peoples. We will never forget this. Expect us.. meaning expect us to stand to the end, whether alone or surrounded my millions.

I guess, both in short, and in closing, I would say that we are not here to make the world what we want it to be, rather we are here to help you create the world that you would like for yourself. That is why there are so many mixed beliefs on what we are all about.. because we all have our own ideas, what brings us together is the need of the human spirit to be free.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 



The world is changing. People are waking up to the realization that they have been lied too and suppressed in the name of wealth and power for a few. Who's side are you on? I myself, stand on the side of humanity and the need that we all have deep down inside to live free.


This is a theme that is repeated time and time again down the time lines.. pick an era and we see similar scenes being played out, those in charge attempting to wrest more wealth and more control from the people as some fight back, but most sit and watch it all play out.

Heck you'll find in the 1350s people crying out to "reclaim" their liberties.. "reclaim" their freedoms..

It seems to me to get to those historical tipping points where real change comes, you need the will of the people on your side, and not just the will, you need their willingness to act as well.

So if I have a question, it would be to ask (not the specifics)
Does the collective have a plan to get the will of the people on their side?
As without it, I don't see what hope scope there is for you to make a positive difference.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:23 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


Welcome to the forum and enjoy posting. I admittedly know very little about Anonymous and it'd be great to see the contributions you make to the forum and see if you can enlighten some of us who are less knowledgable about Anonymous' goals and actions.
edit on 27-6-2011 by lifeissacred because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by anonshanks
 

It seems to me to get to those historical tipping points where real change comes, you need the will of the people on your side, and not just the will, you need their willingness to act as well.

So if I have a question, it would be to ask (not the specifics)
Does the collective have a plan to get the will of the people on their side?
As without it, I don't see what hope scope there is for you to make a positive difference.


You bring out the most important point.. action. It is not merely enough to agree with a need for change of the fundamental right we have to live free.

Do we have a plan? We have many plans, all of them centered around a common goal. There are many activist groups in the world, and many individuals that work independent of any group to bring about awareness on many issues. For example: you have antiwar groups, gay rights activists, abortion activists, anti-abortion groups.. the list could go on. Many of these groups work against each other, while, ironically, they are fighting essentially for the same thing, freedom. This is a tool that the system uses to keep us suppressed. The people outnumber those in power in an enormous way, yet we are still suppressed and they still have the domination. Why? Because we are divided. The goal of "The Plan" is to bring all of these individuals and groups to one common goal, putting aside the rest. All we are doing at the site is trying to point out to those that don't see the suppression that is occurring and ongoing. We are not doing anything that others haven't been doing for years.. which is resisting the status quo, and pointing out the injustices of our world. The plan of course, is subject to change, based on participation levels and commitment. This is the reason there are 3 phases. Each phase after this will build on what has happened in the previous phase. It's an adaptation of action based on those involved. Phase one, educate yourself, educate others, spread what you learn and what you have already attained. Phase two, when the numbers are larger, will only be a more organized effort of the same.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


Interesting
thanks for your reply


I believe we are at one of histories tipping points and those in charge know this.. so I hope you pick your battles well, and wish you luck in bringing about positive change to humanity.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:17 AM
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Originally posted by anonshanks

irc.anonnet.org port 6667, ssl port 6697.


Are you still actively banning all people who choose to connect to this server through anonymizers? If so why?

And why don't you operate the entire server anonymously behind an .onion or .i2p address and instead make the server and its operator vulnerable to law enforcement by exposing its location?



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


I'm glad to hear that your organisation doesn't steal any personal information. I'm not bothered about whether its profit-based or not - those details are none of my business.
I am more than aware that TPTB want to keep their power and/or money by controlling the masses. And that information can be used through wisdom to educate others. I was one of the first people to argue that the internet as a tool to educate is a good thing. Now, I understand that the internet is much more than an educational tool...it allows for social interaction and business opportunities which I see as positive, also propaganda and statistical manipulations which I see as negative.
You call me out to ask 'Who's side am I on?'...well, I'm looking around and I don't see anyone on my side, not TPTB or people who pertain to be my 'friends'. As for 'humanity', apart from the dictionary definition, I don't know what this means. And 'living free' is extremely subjective - I know I can't 'live free'...I've got noone to help me out. So, who's side are you really on? What exactly are you trying to achieve? 'Freedom' of speech is all I've got at the moment



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by prof7

Originally posted by anonshanks

irc.anonnet.org port 6667, ssl port 6697.


Are you still actively banning all people who choose to connect to this server through anonymizers? If so why?

And why don't you operate the entire server anonymously behind an .onion or .i2p address and instead make the server and its operator vulnerable to law enforcement by exposing its location?


We do not "ban" members that connect through all anonymity software, but we do not allow certain software to be used to connect to the servers.. the most well known being tor. The reason tor as well as some other proxies are unusable is due to the abuse of these programs in the past by a large amount of people. i2p is usable for irc though.

We do not operate the entire server anonymously because we would not be able to track peoples that would come there to do harm to the server or engage in illegal activities. As I said earlier, there is no illegal activity that occurs over our server, so there is no reason to hide. There are still several layers of anonymity to ensure you are not identified by other users that are in place such as but not limited to vhost and ssl port connections.

As for anyone that doesn't want to "register" to get on the site, you can still remain anonymous even in registering, all you have to do is create a fake email for the purpose of the site, either giving fake info, or using one of the several services such as hushmail, that requires no more than for you to choose a username and password. We have to be able to keep track of members in some way, as there are some that will come and try to promote violence and or other illegal activities. This is unacceptable.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by celticpride
reply to post by anonshanks
 


I'm glad to hear that your organisation doesn't steal any personal information. I'm not bothered about whether its profit-based or not - those details are none of my business.
I am more than aware that TPTB want to keep their power and/or money by controlling the masses. And that information can be used through wisdom to educate others. I was one of the first people to argue that the internet as a tool to educate is a good thing. Now, I understand that the internet is much more than an educational tool...it allows for social interaction and business opportunities which I see as positive, also propaganda and statistical manipulations which I see as negative.
You call me out to ask 'Who's side am I on?'...well, I'm looking around and I don't see anyone on my side, not TPTB or people who pertain to be my 'friends'. As for 'humanity', apart from the dictionary definition, I don't know what this means. And 'living free' is extremely subjective - I know I can't 'live free'...I've got noone to help me out. So, who's side are you really on? What exactly are you trying to achieve? 'Freedom' of speech is all I've got at the moment


I am sorry that my reply, particularly the line, "who's side are you on?" was taken as calling you out. It was a broader question to be taken more as a statement I guess. Your side is the only side that you should be taking. Read humanity as all humans. For example, I will fight for anyone's right to be free, even if there is nothing in the world that we can find to agree upon. I can only truly be free if my enemy is free as well. Yes, "living free" is subjective, and should only be based on what you want, not what others say you should have. It has a different meaning to us all. As for you have no one to help you out, I would disagree. You may see no one fighting for you, but it doesn't mean that they aren't. What am I trying to achieve? A life that is mine and not the creation and under the constant control of people that have no idea what is best for me. It is not my right to choose your path for you, nor is it my right to tell you what path you WILL follow.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 06:16 AM
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Originally posted by anonshanks
We do not "ban" members that connect through all anonymity software, but we do not allow certain software to be used to connect to the servers.. the most well known being tor. The reason tor as well as some other proxies are unusable is due to the abuse of these programs in the past by a large amount of people.


Sorry, I cannot take you serious. You are calling your organization "anonymous" and at the same time instead of encouraging users to execute their right of anonymity you are calling this "abuse" and ban it alltogether. Instead of promoting end encouraging the usage of the tools that are meant to give the people the anonymity you are doing the exact opposite and demand from naive users to leave their IP addresses on a server that will be seized by the FBI every two weeks or maybe even already owned by them.

the name of your "organiztion" is an outright lie. Why don't you call yourself the "pseudonymous" or better yet the "we-have-nothing-to-hide" or "the registered and law abiding"?

You are not "anonymous", not even close, you are a psy-op!

.
edit on 27-6-2011 by prof7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


Some people don't deserve to 'live free'. Rules are needed to hold those in check. Humans aren't responsible or rational. I could philosophise all day about 'paths'. Thanks for thinking that you're fighting for my rights....it just doesn't equate to much in my everyday life. I'll leave you get on with the other ATSers. TC



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by prof7

Originally posted by anonshanks
We do not "ban" members that connect through all anonymity software, but we do not allow certain software to be used to connect to the servers.. the most well known being tor. The reason tor as well as some other proxies are unusable is due to the abuse of these programs in the past by a large amount of people.


Sorry, I cannot take you serious. You are calling your organization "anonymous" and at the same time instead of encouraging users to execute their right of anonymity you are calling this "abuse" and ban it alltogether. Instead of promoting end encouraging the usage of the tools that are meant to give the people the anonymity you are doing the exact opposite and demand from naive users to leave their IP addresses on a server that will be seized by the FBI every two weeks or maybe even already owned by them.

the name of your "organiztion" is an outright lie. Why don't you call yourself the "pseudonymous" or better yet the "we-have-nothing-to-hide" or "the registered and law abiding"?

You are not "anonymous", not even close, you are a psy-op!

.
edit on 27-6-2011 by prof7 because: (no reason given)


Where oh where to begin..?

I won't go into the whole legality behind why we require registration on the site, it is a moot point to argue with someone that doesn't want to listen, so I won't. To anyone that reasonably looks at what I have said will realize that you can certainly keep anonymity on our site, given todays technology and how much you want to do to ensure you remain anonymous. There are plenty of members of our site that could never be traced back to a name or address because they use free wifi spots. I have stated several times as well that we are not an "organization" so I don't know where you are getting that from.

As for Anonymous, I can assure you that you do not know who I am, therefore I am very much anonymous.

You seem so sure I am psy-ops, yet you have absolutely no proof to support that. That statement made it very clear you are not looking for any answers, you are just looking to provoke an argument, so I will end my waste of time with your post here. But you are correct, I have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. I will keep those names in mind.

Thanks



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by celticpride
reply to post by anonshanks
 


Some people don't deserve to 'live free'. Rules are needed to hold those in check. Humans aren't responsible or rational. I could philosophise all day about 'paths'. Thanks for thinking that you're fighting for my rights....it just doesn't equate to much in my everyday life. I'll leave you get on with the other ATSers. TC


"Rules" should only be used to protect, never, as they are now, to suppress. I guess you are one that thinks we are promoting anarchy?

It's sad that people have been indoctrinated to believe that dreaming of a truly free society is out of touch with reality when it never has been a reality.. that freedom is a naughty word.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 

I for one respect any efforts to address the real issues, the real problems in real time urgent ways. Too often those that understand elements of our multifaceted social and global issues have problems getting that message out in a consistent and understood manner. While the plan is needed, what is needed more is the complete removal and the end of what truly plagues "Us" and I do mean all of us on the planet.

Democrats, Republicans, State and local or even at the Federal level where we focus most is in a state of complete cancerous like corruption for the sole purposes of greed and nothing more. Every facet of our nation, our educational system, our religious organizations, our medical, pharmaceutical and scientific community has been touched by corruption.

Even the corner laundry store and the corner hot dog stand all live for one thing and one thing alone. Making money and more of it. Big business has taken "greed" to the limits of immorality only by using bribes and systemic greed to buy all the politicians and the political system that establishes laws and regulations in their favor.

While I still have nothing but good thoughts about real capitalism, it is the corruption and the systemic greed that has reduced this nation and others into the quagmire of selfishness that we so often see. A callous world where only the haves matter and the have nots are discarded like trash bags. Where billion dollar federal agencies paid and funded by American tax dollars do the bidding of everyone but the American public and do it with a smile.

Our rights to timely and factual and scientific information is all manipulated, used as propaganda and re-worked to present to us the picture of what "they" want us to know.

It is this systemic corruption that has become organized and so out of control that if I were to ask a favor, it would be to use the best technology and a portion of that plan identifying all the players involved in big criminal agendas. Begin exposing their systemic greed and corruption and the first thing we will note will be a slew of accidents and plane crashes along with heart attacks and suicides of those that get highlighted by the alternative press media.

I say if you really want to take the plan to opposing team that you focus on where he is cheating and using illegal means to get away with the crimes they are committing. Begin to understand that once you open a can of criminality, it should be thoroughly examined in great detail. This is how I feel others will be able to then begin seeing that no matter what new politician we get or which party wins, it is the corrupt system that has become the enemy from within America.

Anyway, welcome to the jungle. Settle in and don't, I repeat, don't underestimate the power of an idea, because here at ATS, an idea can go a long way, even if you don't get a flag, star or reply. Plan on that.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


I asked you to leave me alone in my last post, but I guess you aren't too good at taking hints. Don't put words into my mouth, don't pretend to know what I'm thinking, don't speak for me, never try to tell me what paths I WILL take, or not. I'm pretty much sick of that type of abuse. You won't brainwash me...people I used to have some respect for have tried...and failed, miserably. Your actions are proving to me that you don't have my best interests at heart...and that you are quite naive. I bid you good day



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by celticpride
reply to post by anonshanks
 


I asked you to leave me alone in my last post, but I guess you aren't too good at taking hints. Don't put words into my mouth, don't pretend to know what I'm thinking, don't speak for me, never try to tell me what paths I WILL take, or not. I'm pretty much sick of that type of abuse. You won't brainwash me...people I used to have some respect for have tried...and failed, miserably. Your actions are proving to me that you don't have my best interests at heart...and that you are quite naive. I bid you good day


lolz, thank you for the bump.

this line is to bid you a good day as well.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:23 PM
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Welcome on board sir.

BTW. If you see alien related documents send them our way.
And we love a good conspiracy.

Enjoy your stay /b/ro!



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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Welcome to ATS!
I look forward to your posts and yes, please do send any and all alien/ufo info our way!



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by anonshanks
 


I have some fairly pedestrian questions.

Are you all a bunch of youngsters or is it a mixed demographic?

What are your thoughts on net-centric warfare?

That's all for the moment.

I have to say though, that I have been terribly disappointed in the last generation or so as they seemed to be lacking any usefulness or creativity at all.

Anon, and even LulzSec, have renewed my hope. And more. I am actually getting excited.

WE/0

I knew I was saving this image for something...

edit on 27-6-2011 by Frater210 because: pretty pictures make happy monkeys smile





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