NEWS: US Advising Najaf Residents To Evacuate Immediately

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
This can only mean one thing, All out raid. Door to door raid? I cant see them telling people to leave unless they where going to do something big.

I feel sorry for the guys that have had to plan this, on one hand you need to avoid Civilian casualties and on the other there is Operational Security.
The worst thing must be that the commanders know that the Insurgiants will be waiting for them now that the evacuation order has been given.

It means air support, and indiscriminate fire...

Hide in a Mosque...die in a Mosque, it is they who are choosing the graveyard, not the American forces.

I agree, but too bad the muslims won't see it this way...

Unfortunately, this isn't a conventional war, it's a political one, and we can't just go blowing up everything. We can gain far more preserving the Mosque, but we won't risk lives doing it. There are other ways...gassing, etc. to flush them out, or just surround them and starve them out. Nobody in or out.

1) We (The U.S.) is already hated by most Muslims world-wide..it wouldn't make a difference lol

2) If the U.S. decided to target a place of extreme holiness of these radicals, and destroyed it, it would be a huge morale killer. The same effect 9/11 had on America.

-wD

Would this not present an opportunity for someone like Zarqawi or maybe the Iranians to blow up the mosque and blame it on the U.S. ?

So they can blow up churches and not expect the same in return? They were told to lay down their arms and come out. The ball is in their court.

I think we should try other means first like someone else said , gas them out.
It brings to mind when Noriega was granted refuge in the Vatican embassy in Panama.
They played Van Halen, Guns and Roses and shined bright lights untill he could take no more. Operation Just Cause

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
This will either go very very good, or very very bad. If they can take out Al Sadr & his Mahdi army with out damaging the Mosque, that would be good. If any damage is done to the Mosque, we will be reviled throught the muslim world.

I agree. I realize the importance of these structures But I feel if the Mosque is damaged, it can be rebuilt. They stockpile arms and explosives in some of the Mosques, Snipers fire on coalition troops from the Minarats, Were only allowed to return fire in certain circumstances and in my opinion that's b.s. If anyone feels offended by this I'm sorry but if the roles were reversed and we were hiding in a church stocked with arms and explosives, do you think Sadr and his militia would issue arrest warrents and wait five or six months for us to come out? While on a daily basis we ambush his convoys and kill civilians with road side bombs and crap like that? I don't think so. 1 damaged mosque = 1 possibly dead muqtada = a somewhat disorganized Mahdi army = less casualties (in that part of Iraq anyway). While the Mosque gets a few new walls, maybe a new ceiling and a new paint job. Again I apologize if I pissed anyone off.



[edit on 10-8-2004 by flashburn]

Xeven, don't worry I'm glad you're not in charge too.

Garzok has the right Idea, that's what I'm talking about. The short term thinking of bombing the mosques as the first option creates more enemies, more battles, and more deaths. Not way to save your soldiers lives in my book. That's why hopefully they have some intelligent people in charge that can see the other options.

Originally posted by kegs


That's why hopefully they have some intelligent people in charge that can see the other options.

If there were intelligent people in charge we would not be in this whole mess in the first place.

Your right there.
I'm talking about the commanders on the ground though; They didn't get us into this mess.

Originally posted by Xeven
I think we should just drop a bomb on the mosque and get over it. I dont care what they think frankly.

Blow up a few mosques with terrorist in them and then the people will prevent terrorists from entering them because they dont want their mosque bombed.

Do you distinguish at all between terrorists and insurgents?

U.

Originally posted by Bernie
Would this not present an opportunity for someone like Zarqawi or maybe the Iranians to blow up the mosque and blame it on the U.S. ?

Certainly.
Its a lose-lose situation for the US. It has been since the get go.
I refuse to believe we were stupid enough to not see that before the invasion. It is far more likely that it was seen to serve certain interests that an on-going War on Terror be fueled by stoking the fires of anti-American sentiment in the Middle East.

Whose interests? Not your's or mine, that's for sure.

U.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by upuaut]

Ok, well i for one, predict that this will turn out to be bloody. And what im wondering is why send regular troops? What should be done specifically is to send the boys in the Delta Force, drop em off by Blackhawks near the mosque, have em go in and eliminate everybody....well that or have the cia snipe al sadr when he goes out to take a leak, but hey, thats just me. It does puzzle me why special forces like Delta are not used as much in iraq, i heard US military generals pretty much hate the spec ops boys, think that the regulars can handle it all.

Originally posted by AgentMulder320
Ok, well i for one, predict that this will turn out to be bloody. And what im wondering is why send regular troops? What should be done specifically is to send the boys in the Delta Force, drop em off by Blackhawks near the mosque, have em go in and eliminate everybody....well that or have the cia snipe al sadr when he goes out to take a leak, but hey, thats just me. It does puzzle me why special forces like Delta are not used as much in iraq, i heard US military generals pretty much hate the spec ops boys, think that the regulars can handle it all.

I'm willing to bet that they do alot more than their given credit for. Most of the stuff is kept secret. I bet they are already on this like stink on #.

Well, it's about time.

Our Leathernecks have been itching to clean these guy's clocks and even the score for quite some time now, held back only by orders from higher up the food chain.

Suddenly, Al-Sadr is welcoming UN intervention, looking for any way to make it out of this alive. The heat is most assuredly "on".

Gas the place like the Russians did in the theater incident, send in cleanup crews decked out in full body armor to clear out any gas-masked holdouts. Take all survivors away for interrogation and hand the keys to the (lightly damaged, if at all) Mosque back to the Mullah in charge, and everybody's happy. Objective accomplished, any minimal structural damage repaired, Mosque restored to a place of worship vs. a terrorist hideout, and restore "normality" to the area. Throw in a new set of speakers for the minaret and it's all good for everyone.

Originally posted by Xeven

When your one of those marines on the front line and your wife, kids and family are at home waiting for your return, then and only then, can you chose a political combat stratagy over a bomb it and win/live stratagy. You have no right to put thier lives on the line for political gain. Thier lives should only be put on the line in defence of our Nation.

X

When you're one of those marines on the front line and your wife, kids and family are at home waiting for your return, then and only then, can you really be taken seriously when you spout your kill'em all rhetoric, rather than from the safety of your suburb. And if you've been in it before, then polish up your boots and get your a.ss over there.

it sounds like this is going to be BIG At least the marines will be attacking the enemy on the marines terms doing the attacking as they have been trained to do and not always on defence). I hope they wipe the floor with the enemy. this will be a major blow to the enemy if it is completed, GOD SPEED MARINES

I dont think the mosque is going to be a problem. I dont think the Americans will have a problem cleaning up the area without damaging it. They're dealing with a bunch of wanabees with guns. It's not like they're going after a real army. Now that they have the go ahead I dont think this particular thing will last much longer. Something tells me the mosque will be the only thing standing in the town after this though.

The BBC are quoting Col Anthony Haslam, commanding officer of the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit in Najaf, as saying;

"Iraqi and US forces are making final preparations as we get ready to finish this fight that the Moqtada militia started".

news.bbc.co.uk...

US troops 'poised to storm Najaf'


Moqtada Sadr has urged his supporters to fight on
US and Iraqi forces are preparing for a major assault against Shia Muslim fighters in the holy city of Najaf, the US military has said.
US forces have been battling insurgents loyal to radical cleric Moqtada Sadr for the past week.

Hundreds have been reported killed or injured since the fighting began.

One of Iraq's deputy presidents, Ibrahim Jaafari, has called for the US-led forces to withdraw and allow Iraqi security forces to take over.
"I call for multinational forces to leave Najaf and for only Iraqi forces to remain there," he said in remarks broadcast by Arabic TV channel al-Jazeera.
Earlier, he also called on Mr Sadr's Mehdi Army militants to pull back.

"Iraqi and US forces are making final preparations as we get ready to finish this fight that the Moqtada militia started," said Col Anthony Haslam, commanding officer of the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit in Najaf.

"The desired end state is one of stability and security, where the citizens of Najaf do not live in fear of violence or kidnappings, and where the city of Najaf can once again return to peace and prosperity."

The US military said on Monday that Najaf's Governor, Adnan al-Zorfi, had given its troops permission to raid the Imam Ali mausoleum. The US says the insurgents are using the shrine as a refuge, but an attack could anger Shia Muslims.

It is one of the holiest sites in Shia Islam, marking the spot where the Prophet Muhammad's son-in-law, Ali, is buried.

Mr Sadr has called on his followers to keep fighting even if he himself is captured or killed.

zero lift

What can I said US went from liberators to fighting the Iraqis that want the invaders out of their lands so free Iraq have either to agree with the policies of the liberators or they will be destroy even if demolishing their cities and villages and religious sites does the job.

Hum.................maybe we should just demolish all the cities and Iraq kill all the Iraqis and repopulate the entire country with people that will agree with the president wishes of a free democratic Christian and good oil investment Iraq.

Like that US can go and dig the entire nation for oil.

What we have here is a case of separation of church and state. We have the state or the Nation of Iraq versus the a sect of the Muslim religion. Look back in history and see how christianity had similar problems. In most conflicts when this philosophy arose the state used force to abolish opposition. What is transpiring currently in Iraq is the same situation. If the state allows religion to prevail it loses and so does the nation.