Atheism - The Final Frontier

Originally posted by randyvs
Drummer
I know it is. It's almost the standard answer. I never seen it laid out that well before, so I posted it.
Kind a bums me out tho. I was hoping unicorns did exist.

You're in luck.
The narwhal still exists and I think that satisfies the definition.

you'll see cats and rats and elephants

but sure as your're born,

ya never gonna see no unicorn..

the irish rovers!!

www.youtube.com...


this explains everything.

reply to post by Tearman

The reason I don't believe in god is because people don't know what the heck they're talking about when they use the word "god". The creator of the universe? Okay, just what is that anyway?

That's the point we don't know, you don't know,I don't know, since the beginning of reason man has tried to explain our existence,

I think the mistake is, we have labeled god/creator as supernatural, ancient scribes said we were made in gods image, to me that makes him one of us but outside the realm of our comprehension, or consciousness, but at times we get a glimpse,

I woke up this morning with all these thoughts in my mind, and was wondering if a topic on the subject would be on the forum,

God/creator doesn't have to be supernatural.

I believe there is a creator and he is running the show,

What if you don't even exists, what if this is my drama and you are just a player in it?

Where does my mind/consciousness go when I am asleep, that it seems when I wake up, I have brought messages back with me.

www.livestrong.com...

Real-Time Video: First Look at a Brain Losing Consciousness Under Anesthesia

Read more: healthland.time.com...

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
God/creator doesn't have to be supernatural.

Then that means this god/creator is natural, and therefore we can test and measure it. If we can test and measure it we will have taken a giant step towards establishing its existence. All you have to do now is tell us where and how this deity is affecting the natural world.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
God/creator doesn't have to be supernatural.

Then that means this god/creator is natural, and therefore we can test and measure it. If we can test and measure it we will have taken a giant step towards establishing its existence. All you have to do now is tell us where and how this deity is affecting the natural world.

Yes, Natural, how does it affect the natural world, look to how we affect the natural world.

Are We are all gods that haven't learned how to move mountains yet?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Yes, Natural, how does it affect the natural world, look to how we affect the natural world.

Are We are all gods that haven't learned how to move mountains yet?

edit on 093131p://bFriday2011 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

Ah.
Do you believe that humans are a kind of evolving god?

reply to post by fooks


Thanks, now I'm embarassed to be irish.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
God/creator doesn't have to be supernatural.

Then that means this god/creator is natural, and therefore we can test and measure it. If we can test and measure it we will have taken a giant step towards establishing its existence. All you have to do now is tell us where and how this deity is affecting the natural world.

Do dreams exist ? I'm not talking about the measurable, mechanincal workings of the brain during sleep. I'm talking about the images we see, that often portray a message, usually in some metaphorical manner. The dreams themselves. I understand the rules of empirical science in their servitude. What I don't understand is why people would confine/limit thier whole lives to only, " observable phenomena ". Atheism says in a slightly indirect way, that man is it. That if there is a God we are him. We are the highest level of both intelegence and existence, in a world where the levels of such are observable.
So where is the proof that those levels end with us ? Does existence in this world end where this world ends ?
Is this world not part of the universe ? Again where is the proof that the obvious levels of this world end with the this universe ? To apply rules to science ? Damn right. Apply the same rules to your life is just wrong. IMO.

Atheism says in a slightly indirect way, that man is it. That if there is a God we are him.

Atheism says nothing of the sort. It simply means NO belief in a god.

You seem to be getting Atheists mixed up with New Agers.

reply to post by randyvs

Atheism says in a slightly indirect way, that man is it. That if there is a God we are him. We are the highest level of both intelegence and existence, in a world where the levels of such are observable.

You can't seem to let go of the existence of a supreme being or the need for one, even hypothetically, when you're trying to view the discussion from an atheist's point of view. Atheists don't think they're God. The supposition that they do is as ridiculous as claiming that an atheist thinks they're Santa Claus, Optimus Prime, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other fictional construct you care to name. You might find some atheists that claim we're the apex species on this planet, but I don't think that's in dispute within the realm of mainstream science.

reply to post by iterationzero


This planet isn't all there is. It's naive to assume that we are the ultimate existence. Athiests do not believe there is a God. By that non belief they claim there is no God. To make that claim one must possess full knowledge of existence. Having full knowledge of existence would make them God, denying his own existence. There is no God = I am God. The existence that humans experience is the highest form of existence on this planet.
This planet isn't all there is.

Originally posted by iterationzero
reply to post by randyvs

 

Atheism says in a slightly indirect way, that man is it. That if there is a God we are him. We are the highest level of both intelegence and existence, in a world where the levels of such are observable.

You can't seem to let go of the existence of a supreme being or the need for one, even hypothetically, when you're trying to view the discussion from an atheist's point of view. Atheists don't think they're God. The supposition that they do is as ridiculous as claiming that an atheist thinks they're Santa Claus, Optimus Prime, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or any other fictional construct you care to name. You might find some atheists that claim we're the apex species on this planet, but I don't think that's in dispute within the realm of mainstream science.

you tried.

but it fell on deaf ears.

reply to post by lifecitizen


Why don't you just say atta boy.,
Great contribution.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by iterationzero

 

This planet isn't all there is. It's naive to assume that we are the ultimate existence. Athiests do not believe there is a God. By that non belief they claim there is no God. To make that claim one must possess full knowledge of existence. Having full knowledge of existence would make them God, denying his own existence. There is no God = I am God. The existence that humans experience is the highest form of existence on this planet.
This planet isn't all there is.

Spin it any way you like Randy.

We dont believe in any of the gods, let alone think we are one.

-and talk about project.

-YOU must make the claim that YOU possess full knowledge of existance to claim there IS a god.
Which is of course impossible, you dont possess such knowledge.

reply to post by lifecitizen


Let me tell you son. I make no claim. The Bible and Christ do.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by lifecitizen

 

Let me tell you son. I make no claim. The Bible and Christ do.

edit on 2-7-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

uh huh. wow such conclusive evidence.

This is pointless- I'm pretty sure I've said this before to you but I just have to say it again- you're an idiot Randy.

reply to post by lifecitizen


No, I think that puts the score at one for you zero for me. You're pitch"in a shut out so far. Great work.

Been called worse by better. Truth.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by iterationzero

 

It's naive to assume that we are the ultimate existence.

Iterationzero did say on this planet and even this was followed by "you might find some atheists that claim" so that would mean that most, or at least him, realize that there could be beings more advanced than us in the universe.

reply to post by randyvs

This planet isn't all there is.

I never said it was. In fact, I implied the opposite of that when I said "on this planet". Why else would I qualify my statement with it?

It's naive to assume that we are the ultimate existence.

Yes, but until we have some kind of evidence to support it, it's equally naive to assume that a "more advanced" species exists elsewhere. We just don't know yet.

Athiests do not believe there is a God.

Right.

By that non belief they claim there is no God.

Wrong, not all atheists would claim that. A gnostic atheist would move from a simple lack of belief in God, the null position, to the claim that God does not exist, a positive position.

To make that claim one must possess full knowledge of existence.

Agreed, which is why I'm an agnostic atheist. Keep in mind that asserting, as you have, that being able to deny the existence of something requires full knowledge of existence means that you have to agree that every construct imagined by man (and even those we haven't imagined yet) has an equal likelihood of existing somewhere in the absence of proof of its existence. So all gods have the same likelihood of existing as your God based on your own logic.

Having full knowledge of existence would make them God, denying his own existence.

This is where I disagree. While omniscience, which is what you're talking about here, is one aspect of what you describe as God, it's not the only one.

There is no God = I am God.

I don't think I've ever seen a more logically fallacious statement take up so little room. Impressive.

Atheists lack a belief in any god, not just your Judeo-Christian one. A gnostic atheist would more likely say "There is no God = I am just a human", but I'll leave it up to one of them to answer you since that's not my cup of tea.

The existence that humans experience is the highest form of existence on this planet.

That we know of, yes.

This planet isn't all there is.

And, again, I didn't say that it was and, in fact, implied the opposite. I'm not sure why you feel the need to misquote/misrepresent what I said to try and make your point. Look, if you want to say that all atheists are megalomaniacs with a God complex, stop beating around the bush and just do it. Even Cosmic.Artifact had the honesty to just come out and say it instead of dancing around the subject. He was wrong, but at least he was being honest.

reply to post by randyvs

Athiests do not believe there is a God. By that non belief they claim there is no God. To make that claim one must possess full knowledge of existence. Having full knowledge of existence would make them God, denying his own existence.

Do you "know" that santa claus doesn't exist? If you KNOW, that would make you God, correct?

You are an atheist by the very definition... you REJECT various deities others believe in (except yours of course).

Atheists don't assert there is NO God (whatever it is), they just don't believe.

The simple position would be "I don't know!" That's an honest answer.