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Originally posted by Anon404
If there is a soul and devil then in theory it is possible. The problem is making the deal. So supposing that Satan is real and a soul is real examining problems in contracting with devil can shed light on why and how to make a deal.
So taking in the old adage as in heaven so on earth. If the basic principles in heaven are reflected on earth, then our basic theories of contract would apply to Satan just as much as it would to us. So what are the basic principles?
In our American common law those principles are Offer, Acceptance, and Consideration.
The easiest parts are the offer and consideration. The offer would be the soul in exchange for say wealth. However, I doubt "wealth" or "fame" would be specific enough for a contract. You would need to be more specific. Say such as the soul for a million dollars. This would be sufficient definite terms for an offer.
The next easiest part is the consideration which hypothetically would be the soul and the million dollars.
The difficult part would be consent and acceptance. First, how would Satan make a counter offer? Furthermore, to really have consent to the Contract you need to have enough knowledge of what you are trading. If someone doesn't truly believe in a soul, doesn't fully understand the extent of it, etc. then can they truly give consent? Under our system it would likely not be upheld (but does only the most basic principles apply or would Satan fall under our "legal jurisdiction").
I tend to think jurisdiction is a basic principle of law. Would it be fair to hold someone accountable to laws they have little to no knowledge of? (such as whatever divine law would be?) If so then our laws would apply, and therefore most people who would be willing to trade their souls would likely be held to not have sufficient compentancy to accept something in exchange for their soul, and this is accounting for the fact there is no protection for bad deals.
Even if there is no protection for competancy in this divine contract, then there is still a real question of if most deals are truly an offer or acceptance. Most people say so jokingly, under duress (does that count?), and furthermore would likely rescind their offer if Satan would truly pop up in front of them as depicted in our legends. At the very least most people would rescind, even devout atheists since this would confirm atleast some proof of divinity and a person would likely rethink about what they are offering. Basically, you would need to have someone who has full faith in the existence and sufficient knowledge of their soul to offer up their soul for Satan to accept. The problem I see with this is that most of those people are religious persons, and would not take the deal.
So I guess, If a person truly wants to see if this is possible they would have to find 'religion' and believe in a soul, then they would be able to offer/accept a deal from Satan for it. Fortunately, if this is possible most of us lack the devotion to belief in a soul to enter into this contract at the time we want to make it. To truly test this theory one would need to find someone who genuinely believes in a soul (and that requires a person who believes in the ideas espoused by the True Religion).
I don't think we will anytime soon get a major believer of their religion to offer their souls in trade for earthly goods. Just the requirement of true belief makes it impossible to determine, so only a positive outcome can give an answer, and a negative outcome would simply leave two conclusions and no definite conclusion (person was not a true believer/there is no deal with the devil one can make).
So for those truly religious, I guess they need to be wary about making those deals, and those that don't believe need to worry less (even in the event this deal is possible).
As for me personally, I am religious and while I have tried to make those deals, and while they failed. I can say that my faith is wanting, and nearly absent in those times that I made those deals. There is very little way to ever prove it, unless you found a person who successfully made the deal, and that is probably almost as futile to prove as it is to disprove the deal can exist.
As even the part of me that doubts in religion at times, when I am thinking rationally says that if such a deal is possible it would always be a bad idea since it would be trading an infinite resource for a finite resource. One is far more valuable to anyone who can contemplate.
As personal opinion, I further wonder how much Satan would truly accept from someone who met the above terms and wanted to enter a deal. Since, this person would very likely go to hell (under Judeo-Christian religions) anyway. I honestly doubt that one would get a significant award. Honestly, how much would you offer to pay a person for land that you would almost certaintly inherit? The full value? Half? Less? Figuring your refusal to buy doesn't change the outcome... I doubt I would give much more than a pittance for it. Certaintly not more than 20%.
In the end, I think it is possible to make this deal, but for the vast majority of us we lack the competancy required to enter that contract.
Originally posted by Japosha
Don't know if God will punish me for the previous experience I shared before this post, and don't know if he'll punish me for this coming detail...I'm not sure if people are suppose to know all this?
My grandfather, who also was a spiritually enlightened person like me, told me when I was very young that he could see people that passed away, and that he could even speak with them. He said that sometimes the devil himself showed up right before him...
I took on this story as if it was a fairy tale, that my grandpa wanted to scare me with - and so, he began to explain:
"Look now son, you've might have heard all kinds of fairy tales and bed time horror stories about the devil, but let me just clear some things out; nr 1. he ain't no monster looking creature, nr 2. he is well spoken, articulate, and has manners as long as you don't piss him off.., nr 3. he is also well dressed, with an elegant, classic black suit, with a shiny top hat, and a black cane, nr 4. however, even though he is elegantly dressed, he still has one clear identifier that marks him out of the crowd - his left leg is that of an ox with a hoof, and nr.5 he can change shape at will, and look like anything and anyone. "He once appeared to me as a small girl, sitting on a pile of fire wood I just had chopped - "our dog reacted to his presence and started growling, and he told me immediately "if that dog comes even one inch closer, he dies" I cursed at him and told him to go to hell, to which, he just laughed...
and let me tell you...he is very real, people just can't see him."
Originally posted by Japosha
reply to post by Jrocbaby
Well, my grandma from my father's side had the same ability - to be able to see and talk to dead people. She saw the devil too - and described him exactly the same as my grandpa did (from my mom's side)
In my family there are a lot of spiritually enlightened people - I'm one of many. I however cannot see the dead, nor speak with them. What I mean with spiritually enlightened, is that I can sense energies, who is devotedly evil, and who is good, see bits and pieces of the future, but not at will - they're just shown when I least expect it.. And if I go to an old castle somewhere, I can sense whether torture took place, if the spirits still reside there, and if it there is an evil presence.
I have extensive knowledge of people I've just met (or never met before in my life), or just see passing down the street. I'm able to pinpoint very easily their behavior, how old they are, what they like, if they're married, in love, pissed off, and all sorts of things. This has helped me a lot in life, I can tell you...
Originally posted by Griffo
Seeing as I don't believe in the devil, or in the fact that we have souls; no.
The whole notion seems absurd
This is my opinion, my reality. So of course could be different than your reality.