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Originally posted by ArMaP
I'm an atheist, but in my country we don't have such a thing as the "pledge of allegiance".
How I see it, if the expression "under God" is there to represent that the person making the pledge agrees with the idea that the United States are "a nation under God" and that expression is meaningless to an atheist, then it means that the person was not sincere when they made the pledge.
If I was in that situation, I would remove the "under God" myself and would say the rest of the pledge. After all, what's the meaning of a false pledge?
Originally posted by Warpthal
America was founded on religious beliefs. Many ideas come from religious beliefs or masonry practices.
Originally posted by newcovenant
Peoples identities are wrapped up in them and like sports teams our allegiance comes with colors and customs. I think it is part of a method of controlling the masses and manipulating their actions at any given time.
Originally posted by Sagittarian69
Same situation with "Under God" you don't like it then don't say it. Skip that part. It is real easy to do. Let those that do believe in God to say it without you mucking it up for them.
It has only been in there around 60 years. (maybe a little less).
IMHO it equates to this... People that find offense in things that they could simply ignore, if they chose, have a problem with self esteem. Especially, if said things would not even indirectly affect them. A confident individual will not worry about hearing you say "Under God" they will respectfully keep their mouths shut and expect you to do the same when you don't hear them say it.
Originally posted by DeepThoughtCriminal
Why should it not be removed? Because for Christ´s sake U.S., there are more important things to worry about that upsetting a few rabid atheists.
Removing it would have very similar logic to burning down churches in places where many atheists live. Part of your history, part of how your country was formed. So keep it, and worry about the more pressing issues.
I don't know why you say that atheists can't stomach this argument. I've seen no indication of that at all. I'm not afraid of it.
Originally posted by lbndhr
Why change something that has worked for how many decades?
Why do so select few think their likes and sis-likes take precedence over reality? Why don't you go ask Mexico, or Egypt to change something in their national pledge? Of you don't like it go back to where you came from.
You dis prove God and well maybe just maybe you would have a starting argument.
Originally posted by infojunkie2
reply to post by newcovenant
if somebody has a problem with God being in the pledge then give me your money cause it's got God on it too.
Originally posted by aorAki
Get rid of the whole pledge, in my opinion. As an 'outsider' it is patently obvious that people are saying it without meaning it, just paying lip service to it, as where is the liberty and justice for all?
Originally posted by Laokin
Originally posted by newcovenant
I'm agnostic/atheist depending on the day really.... I don't mind under god being in the pledge... however...
It's not hitler esque at all to remove it from the national pledge. This isn't limiting anyones free speech in any way, shape, form, or fashion. The pledge is not an individualist idea... It is the product of cult mentality. Like you said, God is a topic open for debate, so to claim that we all in this nation believe in God is just wrong and cultish. We don't all believe in god, so to say "One nation under god" is a falsity. On the flipside, I do believe in freespeech... so I believe it has the right to be there if who ever has the authority to edit the pledge wishes it to remain....
I only propose that removing it does not infact harm free speech. It's only makes the pledge more factual, since we aren't all united in the belief of God.
This is a deeply philosophical question... Thanks for the topic :-D. Star and flagged.edit on 26-6-2011 by Laokin because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Annee
I was in public school when the pledge was changed and we had to learn the new version.
Let me tell you - - a lot of people were not happy then either. It was not something that was fully embraced by all citizens.
It was just as controversial then - when our government over-stepped its bounds - - - as it still is today.