I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

Originally posted by vjr1113
yes it should be taken out. it gives the impression that this is a christian nation. it was added after the pledge was written not that long ago.

It was added by Eisenhower in 1954
www.religioustolerance.org...

Could there have been pressure from either religious groups or the Papacy or something like that, to include it? I will have to see if there was some sort of coercion there. The link above is only the first I found. Thanks for responding. Stars all around! Cheers.

This is a contract to your country and like a marriage, for better or worse.

Why is there a need to re-affirm this every time a sporting/school/shopping event happens?
If you say it once, and mean it, you probably don't need to say it again.

I said my wedding vows, meant what I said, and stick with that...I don't need to repeat them out loud every day/every time I go to watch a game.

Repeating things, especially divisive things, doesn't make you more patriotic or a better American.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by vjr1113
yes it should be taken out. it gives the impression that this is a christian nation. it was added after the pledge was written not that long ago.

It was added by Eisenhower in 1954
www.religioustolerance.org...

yes! star for you

I don't think the pledge itself, or the reference to God should be thrown out at all.

In fact if you are one of the NWO fearers, you would be wise to hold onto these things, for the changes such as removing reference of God, or removing the pledge, or like that idiot from CNN who recommended we throw out the Constitution, well these are the steps towards something that is not America, or should I say a continuation of the steps that is transforming our country from what used to be a country - to something else that will not last and will fall.

Before you can claim that God should be removed from a pledge to our flag, first you must define who, or what God is. And personally I don't think the Bible or the Koran can quite answer that question, so if you are unable to believe in a higher judging power, slap the label "God" on it, and pledge your allegiance to our Flag under it, well there are plenty of other countries to go to.

I mean what do we replace God with? Something like this?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under The Federal Reserve, indivisible, with (less and less) liberty and (instant ocean tossing) justice for all.

Its a moot point really... either a person says "under god"or not. Its pretty simple really. I look at it this way, I know all the words to the pledge from the simple fact that I said them every day in grade school. I also know all the words to the song "Happy Birthday" because I sang it every time someone had a birthday. I know 90% of the words to my favorite song "I love this bar" Does not singing all the words make the song less understand able? No. Not really. So I just omit the words I don't know and keep on going. So why cant people just do the same thing with the Pledge?

Doesn't anyone remember being in kindergarten or first grade and standing up and reciting the pledge? Didn't you feel a tiny bit special as you came to understand that you were part of a great country and that you are a citizen and actually belonged somewhere on this planet?

Maybe learning the pledge was our first indoctrination into brainwashing


Anyway, If you feel the need to omit a word or two or change them around to suit yourself or just flat out refuse to say the pledge that is entirely your choice, but what I don't understand is why anyone would want to...its how it was written and that is good enough for me. It would be like change the lyrics of Ozzy's song from this "I'm going off the rails on a crazy train" to this "I'm going off the rails on a bus" It just wouldn't sound right!!!!!

Originally posted by Q:1984A:1776
reply to post by newcovenant

 

My parents militantly believed in God. They were Jehovah's Witnesses. They didn't think that it was appropriate to put "one nation, under God" in the pledge, as this nation is not united in being "under God". There are plenty of people who would swear their allegiance to this nation, but they don't believe in your "God" or they don't believe in any god. The pledge totally goes against the intention our founding fathers had in giving us freedom of religion.

edit on 26-6-2011 by Q:1984A:1776 because: (no reason given)

You are right in this too. When you think about it, under God does show some sort of especial entitlement in a subtle way. It is a bit like Israel saying this is our land, get off it, because God said it is.
Forced indoctrination.

It is like parents saying "because I said so."
It doesn't have a purpose and religion should be a private matter between a person and their God
Not their Country their God and them.
That seems a little crowded! Thanks for reply.

I support the case you make, and it was really nice. but that also raises the question... I don't believe in God, so why shouldn't God be taken out of dog? Ha S&F

Originally posted by OnceReturned
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Because it's just a saying and the majority of Americans want to keep saying it the way it is. It's not a law, you don't have to say it, and you're free to say something else. It's not really even an official tradition, if you wanted to change it, where would you even make the change? Just announce one day that everyone is doing it wrong and tell them the new way? People can and do say whatever they want, and they will say the pledge the way they want to. Unless you're going to enforce a "new way of saying it" law, there's really no way to change it other than to try to convince everyone that they should want to say it in another way. Right now, people want it the way it is, and their desire is the deciding factor. There's no official mechanism in place to decide whether or not it's right, the issue is decided at the level of personal beliefs.

This is true. No one is forcing anyone to recite it or that phrase in it, as far as I know.
Like, do you get sent to the principal if your lips are not moving?

I don't think so.

Not yet anyway.

Originally posted by BobbyShaftoe
Speaking as an atheist, i think whether the word god is used is of no significance.

it is my understanding that:

God folk like the word god to be used.
Anti-god folk don't.
Atheists don't care.

Interesting take which I never heard or considered. Thanks for that.

Originally posted by wardk28
Why should "under God" be removed from the pledge? And you aren't pleding allegiance to just a flag but what the flag stands for (or what it use to stand for). Too many changes have been made and thats why we are on the road we are on now. We used to be a great nation but slowly what made us great has been chiseled away. People need to stop trying to change the foundation on what this country was built on. There is no seperation of church and state in the constitution. What it does say is that the state can not force you to believe in any one religion. If you don't believe in God thats fine but that doesn't mean everyone else shouldn't either.

It is easy to think it is the change that is making this country sell out but I think it is the kind of change. All change is not bad. Change is necessary. We need to refresh, it is a proven concept of life. Everything even your computer needs to refresh. We can't tell the positive from the negative unless you look at the bigger picture and examine long term consequences. We do things slowly that we should do fast and vice versa. This seems to me the vice versa!

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


Just one year ago I would thought your idea was crazy BUT not anymore. The Pledge is a mind control statement that somehow gives the Government the right to walk on every human on this planet. Constitution is the same type of paper. It grants MAN control over MAN and that is not right. The entire legal system is corrupt and use the Constitution is used to destroy rights, although many feel it protects them. How can a paper allow a person to go to Prison for life for one offense but let another go for the same. The Constitution is Propaganda the way it is being used to enslave mankind. We have laws for everything a corrupt government can make. The Original Constitution was the real deal but every year since it has been watered down. Man was meant to live on this Earth Free. The so called Gov has enslaved all of us on earth. The Contitution is an illusion of freedom. It is actually used to destroy freedoms and lives. Look how many Presidents use, bypass, or simply spin the Constitution to allow them to rule with an iron fist? I would not lose sleep over In God We Trust being removed from a worthless piece of paper that people will kill for? How many people even read the message on the worthless paper these days? People kill for the slave notes daily.

As far as God in the pledge. I could care less. God is in a Persons Heart but the OP made me think of The Book of Eli movie. Eli tells the friend he had met, how some claimed the Bible caused the War while everyone was burining and destroying any mention of the Bible. Very deep movie.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by newcovenant
I believe in God.
Notice Atheist seem to lack the stomach for this argument and I'd like to see it out there so theoretically I don't and would like to see UNDER GOD taken out of the pledge. This should not be the end of the world.
So why is it?

The pledge should be for ALL citizens.

Not ALL citizens believe in or support God.

We are a secular government. End of debate.

I am an Atheist and my stomach is just fine.

This makes a lot of sense but I don't see why people are using it as a political weapon all of a sudden.

The only people who used it as a political weapon are those who put God in the pledge - - as it is not part of the original.

It was a purely political move to combat an Atheist government. Too bad "they" neglected America's own Atheists - - many who were in the service - - - and forgot we are a secular government - - and always have been.

No matter what the religious try to claim.

Originally posted by Badgered1

This is a contract to your country and like a marriage, for better or worse.

Why is there a need to re-affirm this every time a sporting/school/shopping event happens?
If you say it once, and mean it, you probably don't need to say it again.

I said my wedding vows, meant what I said, and stick with that...I don't need to repeat them out loud every day/every time I go to watch a game.

Repeating things, especially divisive things, doesn't make you more patriotic or a better American.

I don't know either and just recently realize I can look at it two ways.
In one I am a patriotic American and in the other I am just following along like a monkey.

Originally posted by BobbyShaftoe
Speaking as an atheist, i think whether the word god is used is of no significance.

it is my understanding that:

God folk like the word god to be used.
Anti-god folk don't.
Atheists don't care.

Why would an Atheist not care that something representing government also represents a God belief?

Who do you think continues to fight to have it removed? Because we are a secular government?

reply to post by newcovenant


Bingo. We all are. We are being asked to say this statement daily so that it is always in our minds. It gives us security when we hear the words, especially sung on TV before each Super Bowl. In my opinion it is Mind Control. Meaningless babble that somehow calms our minds when we sing along.

The World is very different than the kind words repeated daily.

Originally posted by newcovenant

In one I am a patriotic American and in the other I am just following along like a monkey.

Yes and there are many very Patriotic Atheists in the military who do want to honor their flag.

It is all kinds of wrong to have God in the pledge - - because it out right excludes Patriotic Atheists.

I think the pledge is fine - - if you are an adult - - know the meaning of a pledge - - and choose to pledge to a flag and country.

Forcing minors is pure and simple political propaganda. And should be stopped.

Originally posted by Sek82
I don't think the pledge itself, or the reference to God should be thrown out at all.

In fact if you are one of the NWO fearers, you would be wise to hold onto these things, for the changes such as removing reference of God, or removing the pledge, or like that idiot from CNN who recommended we throw out the Constitution, well these are the steps towards something that is not America, or should I say a continuation of the steps that is transforming our country from what used to be a country - to something else that will not last and will fall.

Before you can claim that God should be removed from a pledge to our flag, first you must define who, or what God is. And personally I don't think the Bible or the Koran can quite answer that question, so if you are unable to believe in a higher judging power, slap the label "God" on it, and pledge your allegiance to our Flag under it, well there are plenty of other countries to go to.

I mean what do we replace God with? Something like this?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under The Federal Reserve, indivisible, with (less and less) liberty and (instant ocean tossing) justice for all.

That is a good one! Federal Reserve! I think there are people saying that now.

Sometimes I wonder this...what if this country was founded by a group of renegades with allegiances to England and Rome. Say the Illuminati and Rome both know God is a fabrication designed to control men and they want to exploit another land because well greed is spilling over in England and the countries and properties they have already acquired.

America looks like a new and better place to set up shop and run your operation.

Many of the founding fathers were Masons and a great many more were atheist and maybe that is why religion and government were separated and why under God wasn't included in the first place?

Maybe our beginnings were not all that noble here in America.
What if we are just a new and modern version... sort of like a subsidy of England and Rome?
Consider the annihilation of the indigenous people and slavery.

How does any God stand behind and defend that?
Not very auspicious beginnings. First it was altruistic "give me your poor, your hungry for justice" but now that we have all the bodies we need for a workforce, we are closing the doors to the asylum. This should be interesting.

reply to post by lostsock

Maybe learning the pledge was our first indoctrination into brainwashing

Thanks for your reply.
Not ready to eliminate that possibility either.
Re-thinking lots of rote patterns and things I formerly, and unquestioningly accepted.
ATS-itis????

Originally posted by vjr1113

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by vjr1113
yes it should be taken out. it gives the impression that this is a christian nation. it was added after the pledge was written not that long ago.

It was added by Eisenhower in 1954
www.religioustolerance.org...

yes! star for you

Thank you for that!
Here is a bit from the link which I thought was interesting.

Between 1924 and 1954, the Pledge of Allegiance was worded: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, during the McCarthy era and communism scare, Congress passed a bill, which was signed into law, to add the words "under God."
The Pledge is recited, on average, tens of millions of times a day -- largely by students in schools across America.
On 2002-JUN-26, a three judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals voted 2 to 1 to declare the Pledge unconstitutional because of the addition of the phrase "under God."

This decision only affects the states of AK, AZ, CA, HI, ID, MT, NV, OR and WA. The ruling stating that "the text of the official Pledge, codified in federal law, impermissibly takes a position with respect to the purely religious question of the existence and identity of God."

The U.S. Supreme Court overturned the Circut Court of Appeals reading. They did not rule on the basis of the Pledge violating the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Rather, they ruled that the plaintiff Michael Newdow did not have primary custody of his daughter and thus did not have standing to take the case to the federal court system.

Originally posted by lastbleedingvictim
I support the case you make, and it was really nice. but that also raises the question... I don't believe in God, so why shouldn't God be taken out of dog? Ha S&F

Well thanks for showing up. It wouldn't be a party without you!
The star and flag was a nice touch. Thanks a lot.
But seriously, somebody has to go out for more stars now.