I don't believe in "God" so why shouldn't God be taken out of the pledge?

Why be ashamed how other people conduct themselves? Being an "Atheist" is being turned into its own religion to be honest. If you don’t follow any particular religion you are just human, others can be categories themselves as much as they like but why bring that group mentality into our world.

reply to post by SurvivalSupplyIndustries



Anyway the way I see it is, if lots of kids in the world believe in Santa and I don't does that mean I'm an (Insert word for Santa non believer)? That must mean the rest of nature is also and I don’t see the reason to draw invisible lines around us to separate from something which is just a belief . Instead of seeing non-believer and believer as opposites I see others as humans with with extra beliefs.

I don't think it matters. When we all say it the pride swells up inside and we realize all of the sacrifices that have been made to realize this great country. We need to remember what made us great and keep it that way. If you have anything else on your mind while saying it then your priorities are in the wrong place. It's like arguing semantics when the world is hanging by a thread. It's not american to argue stupid sh** like this when so much has been sacrificed.

I don't believe in god either. I believe this "arguing" is purely of the drama queens.

Originally posted by SurvivalSupplyIndustries
Being an atheist, I have always considered myself to be a little smarter than the average bear... and thus words like "God" imprinted on my money or mentioned in the pledge I sometimes recite at certain events have never bothered me. Why? Because they are just words and they ring hollow with me. So why not with all other atheists?

They are not just words when they affect a secular government.

Maybe because I am older - - and remember when you could be fired from your job if you were not Christian - - or denied the right to buy a house if anyone found out you were Atheist.

I'm old enough to know the fight against Christian control where I grew up. The fight still continues in many parts of this country.

They are not just words.

The entire foundation of the US as a nation is that we are created equal, that we have rights given by God which cannot be taken, such as life, liberty, and to pursue our dreams. If there is no God, then the rights we have are only permitted us by the ruling class (government employees, police, landlords, employers). Do you want to live in a world where the only rights you have are what others decide you may temporarily have?

Here are the first two sentences of the Declaration of Independence:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The Constitution of the United States puts into law restrictions on government which acknowledges our rights and ensures we keep our rights. The very first right revolves around belief in God, and the right to express that (remember the Church of England was pushed by England as the only religion). The second right is of self-preservation. Third is against intimidation (England used to board drunken rowdy soldiers in homes of people they 'punished').

1. Freedom of Speech, Press, Religion and Petition
2. Right to keep and bear arms
3. Conditions for quarters of soldiers
4. Right of search and seizure regulated
5. Provisions concerning prosecution
6. Right to a speedy trial, witnesses, etc.
7. Right to a trial by jury
8. Excessive bail, cruel punishment
9. Rule of construction of Constitution
10. Rights of the States under Constitution

Each right helps support the others. The root of all rights and constraints on government is the belief in God, in a higher being than government bureaucrats, politicians and their manipulative laws, and enforcers of those laws.

Point is without God, you have no rights. You've evolved from animals and are no different than animals, and have no rights from a higher being, only rights that a bureaucrat decides you deserve.

Originally posted by Dbriefed
The entire foundation of the US as a nation is that we are created equal, that we have rights given by God which cannot be taken, such as life, liberty, and to pursue our dreams. If there is no God, then the rights we have are only permitted us by the ruling class (government employees, police, landlords, employers). Do you want to live in a world where the only rights you have are what others decide you may temporarily have?

First you have to understand what a Deist God/Creator is. If you do not understand that - - then you don't know what the thinking of the founding fathers is.

A Deist God/Creator - - - says "Here's your world - - now its up to you". So yes - the decisions man himself made are correct. Including letting TPTB take charge.

Originally posted by newcovenant

The question I have I guess is, should God be taken out of the pledge if you do not believe in Him?

I am wondering what kinds of reactions and responses this title will provoke.
Your thoughts?

Could we just have 2 separate pledges? 1 for Believers and 1 for the Non Believers.


Peace

Originally posted by Gorman91

Divisive wars between primitives. We're talking about modern people. After all, that's the whole reason you used Greece as an example.


At most you can say that about the Europeans. Of which, were they really Christian? Were they really doing anything other than what their kings said? or what the pope said?

You are splitting hairs here.

In order to continue to argue with you in any meaningful way, I would have to ask you to lock down your definition of various terms so that when faced with evidence to the contrary, you do not continue to just pretend that the word means something other than what I am saying.

For example, define "Christian" "Civilization," "rape," etc. And, you keep claiming all this barbarism but dont actually support it, (in terms of the ancient Greeks and their pagan sacrifices.)

You are creating a moving target and taking liberties with definitions. You cannot both argue that Christianity civilized Europeans, for instance, and then later make the argument that even after being civilized and converted, they arent actually Christian. Lol.

reply to post by Unrivaled1


Sure, thats what I would suggest. There should be some way for people who are atheist to pledge allegiance or swear into court of office without the word God. After all, logically, if you are asking someone to "tell the truth the whole truth..........." etc, why force an atheist to LIE by saying "so help me God?" Its illogical to do so.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I couldn't agree with you more.



Peace

reply to post by Annee


I remember some poor little Jehovahs witness girl reduced to tears because she was not allowed by her parents to pledge allegiance to the flag in class and the teacher made a huge deal of it.

And I remember compulsory school prayers before lunch, too.

I do agree that for their to truly be freedom of religion, people should not be allowed to impose God on those who do not believe.

The nation was founded under God ... if you don't believe in God, than for you it is nothing more than a historical reference.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Annee

 

I remember some poor little Jehovahs witness girl reduced to tears because she was not allowed by her parents to pledge allegiance to the flag in class and the teacher made a huge deal of it.

And I remember compulsory school prayers before lunch, too.

I do agree that for their to truly be freedom of religion, people should not be allowed to impose God on those who do not believe.

Oh yeah - - I was in primary school in the 50s. You know when you nor your parents had rights to see your school records without a court order. Your teacher could write in your file that you were anti-Christian because you didn't say a prayer in class. And that record was read by all future teachers.

After a generation or so - - - people that weren't part of the struggle for freedom/independence take it for granted.

They should not.

Originally posted by canuckaclehead
The nation was founded under God ... if you don't believe in God, than for you it is nothing more than a historical reference.

It was founded on Freedom of belief without persecution.

The God referred to is the Deist Creator.

It is wrong to exclude Atheists in a pledge to country. Plus the author of the pledge was a socialist and left church before he died.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Just this discussion alone - - on a conspiracy website.

Proves - - just how important Separation of Church and State is.

It is not OK to accept/dismiss God being used in/on any government sanctioned document/pledge etc.

I hope the legal fights to have God removed from government continue - - including the fight to have God removed from the pledge and money.

We are a secular government. And we have to fight to keep it that way. This is not just a little thing.

reply to post by newcovenant




Seems to me if one doesn't believe in God there is no harm that come to you by saying so. It won't harm a person who doesn't believe in God to just smile as the words are spoken or just bow their head in silence meditate whatever it takes. To the people who believe in God it would harm them to take the words under god out because they are pledging allegiance to the flag UNDER GOD meaning if all is good with god they can then defend and protect their country...

I think if you don't believe in something it won't hurt you to just refrain from discussing it... It is not like its a Jewish or Muslim trying to sit still in prayers to Jesus.... Its someone without faith in a higher power not being harmed or being pushed to believe in anything....

GET REAL and Fight a worthy battle keep on not believing no one is pushing their way onto you why should most of the world change their traditions and prayers because you don't believe you don't believe so nothing can harm you... It doesn't hurt your NON RELIGION to be in a room when someone prays or says the word God...

Our Nation was created under Christian beliefs God fearing Men those with faith if you don't want to say the pledge don't if you want to say the pledge and don't believe in God leave that out...

Its like swearing on the Bible if you go to court would you say i can't swear or affirm on the bible because i don't believe in God if you don't believe it doesn't affect you.

GROW UP

Hey, just me, your friendly non-believer...er um human dropping into says that it doesn't matter if someone told you a god gave you your rights. There is no god. If you go on believing there is a god, just make sure you don't get so crazy you start taking away my rights. I, as an individual animal, like the squirrel, wish to be free. Only another mortal can take that freedom away. There is no immortal involved in the process.

Gods don't belong in the government. The government should be for all. The government should not enforce an unproven principle on our children, whom, I think, most of us would like to see grow up logical.

I may be wrong about the majority wanting their children to grow up logical. The Discovery Channel and TLC are no longer educational. Disney no longer puts out educational films. Bill Nye and Beakman are gone from the airwaves. What happened to our love of discovery and the scientific method?

reply to post by gentledissident


So do you think the 10 commandments are logical? Not saying You have to believe GOD gave them to Moses... Maybe Moses smoke something and came up with 10 decent laws to live by....

The point being for all these Kids we would rather plop down in front of Discovery or Bill Nye than actually show our kids a plant in the garden being seeded from the bees pollination and the flowers etc watching nature evolve around us and explaining the the Suns Energy gives us all life if it makes people a little happier and a little more undercontrol because they have to answer to someone else when they are dead so be it.... IF YOU DONT BELIEVE IT DOESNT HURT YOU teach your kids what you want and they will still meet some boy or girl that goes to church and they eventually will form their own opinion.....

We can't rely on anyone to teach our kids anything but ourselves if you need Discovery Channel or Disney to teach them then QUIT having them I for one am not against Abortion and believe it is a non government issue so feel free.

reply to post by LIMAECHOGOLF


The Egyptian commandments are, in large part, based on ethics. no immortals need be involved.
edward.de.leau.net...

As for the media I mention, I'm demonstrating a sign of the times. It's also not a bad idea. Your method is a bit slow and incomplete.

EDIT:

Originally posted by LIMAECHOGOLF if it makes people a little happier and a little more undercontrol because they have to answer to someone else when they are dead so be it

Delusion is just 1 of the symptoms of schizophrenia en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by gentledissident
reply to post by LIMAECHOGOLF

 

The Egyptian commandments are, in large part, based on ethics. no immortals need be involved.

There were so many great philosophers long before Christ was even a blip on the radar.

It really pisses me off - - those who think everything of value - - started with Christianity.

Originally posted by LIMAECHOGOLFa little more undercontrol

I was a boy watching CNN in the 80's, when I saw an interview with a couple of men who claimed to be from a US social engineering department. I remember one man who seemed controlling being very firm about Christianity being good for keeping the public docile. I would so love to find that interview.

Maybe there is a conspiracy.
en.wikipedia.org...

(Arkansas, Maryland, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, Tennessee, and Texas) also contain clauses that prohibit atheists from holding public office.[6][7] However, these clauses were held by the U.S. Supreme Court to be unenforceable