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Roswell, An Alternative Conspiracy.

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posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 01:04 PM
When I joined ATS earlier this week, I mentioned that it was a book that led me to ATS after reading about this fantastic website in the book “Area 51” by Annie Jacobson, towards the end of this book there is a sensational allegation made in regards to the Roswell incident that I think may interest members of ATS and warrants discussion on ATS. For those of you who are not familiar with the book and the alternative conspiracy I am going to summarise it as best I can for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with this theory.

This conspiracy has its roots deep within facts and actual historical events which is why I am inclined to believe it. It all goes back to the 1938 broadcast of War of the Worlds which caused panic across America and particularly in New York and New Jersey, with panicked listeners calling the police and even accounts of people evacuating from populated areas. This demonstrated to power that the media could as part of a propaganda machine; the radio waves could be used to manipulate the population.

In the same year of the broadcast of War of the Worlds in Germany the Nazi movement was in full swing and recruited a young physician named Josef Mengele. Josef would go on to become one of the world’s most notorious Nazi’s largely due to his work at the now infamous Auschwitz camp. There Josef undertook some of the most sickening experiments ever conducted on human beings, he once sowed to twins together in an attempt to crate conjoined-twins. He once took an entire group of children and injected chloroform directly into their heart killing them all instantly, they were the lucky ones in Josef’s house of horrors. He would perform open heart surgery without anaesthetic, conduct amputations, attempted to inject chemicals into individual’s eyes to change their eye colour and various operations to enlarge the human skull. In short he built his own little Frankenstein monsters only this was no novel, this was the reality of Auschwitz for Josef Mengele’s victims.

When the war ended, the rounding up for former Nazi’s began. It was apparent to the post-war powers that the Nazi’s had been technologically superior to the rest of the world and there was now a race to recruit former Nazi scientists, in American this was known as the paperclip project and Russia had their equivalent. Josef’s crimes were severe, it went further than torture his experiments were pure evil and he was on the run trying to escape the Nuremberg trials. His solution was to turn to the Soviet leader, Stalin.

Then about a year later, in 1947 we had the crash at Roswell. The public information officer based in New Mexico a man named Walter Haut released a press statement confirming that a disk shaped craft had crashed. The following day, the press statement was changed it was not a flying disk but it appeared to be a weather balloon. And so the story drifted off until the 1970’s when ufologists began to take notice. The Roswell incident took quite a turn after the death of Walter Haut in 2005 who had left behind a affidavit that was to be opened after his death and what it revealed was astonishing. In his affidavit he says that

(12) Before leaving the base, Col. Blanchard took me personally to Building 84 [AKA Hangar P-3], a B-29 hangar located on the east side of the tarmac. Upon first approaching the building, I observed that it was under heavy guard both outside and inside. Once inside, I was permitted from a safe distance to first observe the object just recovered north of town. It was approx. 12 to 15 feet in length, not quite as wide, about 6 feet high, and more of an egg shape. Lighting was poor, but its surface did appear metallic. No windows, portholes, wings, tail section, or landing gear were visible.

(13) Also from a distance, I was able to see a couple of bodies under a canvas tarpaulin. Only the heads extended beyond the covering, and I was not able to make out any features. The heads did appear larger than normal and the contour of the canvas suggested the size of a 10 year old child. At a later date in Blanchard's office, he would extend his arm about 4 feet above the floor to indicate the height.

(19) I am convinced that what I personally observed was some type of craft and its crew from outer space.

So Walter Haut believed that what he saw was alien but according to Annie Jacobson something else was going on. Perhaps he was meant to believe that he saw aliens.

Jacobson claims that through one of her sources she has gathered information that when Josef Mengele turned to Stalin, Stalin offered him a deal. Stalin wanted four of Josef’s Frankenstein’s, small with large heads and eyes, with an alien like appearance. Working in secret, still inside Germany Josef created Stalin’s aliens. At the same time the Nazi scientists that the Soviets had acquired had built a hovering stealth craft for the Soviets that was designed to resemble a flying soccer.

Stalin’s plan was to have this craft land in America to trick the American people into believing that UFO’s were visiting America along with extraterrestrials. His inspiration for this, was the 1938 war of the worlds broadcast, Stalin knew that he could use propaganda to cause mass panic in America by tricking them into believing that they were under attack by UFO’s. However his plan went wrong with the flying disk crashed when the military opened up the disk they found 4 grotesquely deformed children no more than 13 years old. They had been effectively tortured by Josef and turned into his monsters and Stalin’s aliens. In addition to this further analysis of the craft revealed Russian Cyclic writing stamped into one of the parts, thus proving the craft was of Russian origin. The government and military wanted to cover this up, a Russian craft had breached American airspace, so they covered it up.

Then sometime in the early 1950’s 5 engineers from EG&G were given 5 keys to a facility inside Area 51 known as S-4 with the instruction’s form Vannevar bush to reverse engineer the craft and investigate the 4 corpses. It is claimed that one of these children was still alive but in a comatose state. This disk was unique, it had stealth capability and could hover it is also believed that it worked via remote-control. Vannevar Bush wanted these 5 engineers to reverse engineer this strange craft and also examine the 4 pilots.

This is where it gets real scary, Annie Jacobson pointed out a rather large flaw in this narrative. She asked the question, why did the president not expose what the Russians had done and expose Stalin as a monster? The reply is terrifying, Annie’s source clams there were a number of reasons, firstly that American administration did not want the people of America to know its air space had been breached by the Soviets and also because America was seeking to reverse engineer the technology.... all of it. In other words, America had its own program of grotesque human experimentation that went along similar lines of Josef Mengele. We know that America has a history of human experimentation with the experiments on the effects of radiation and MK-ULTRA so the idea that they went even further is not a stretch of the imagination. As Annie’s source says “we were pushing science to the absolute limits”

From here the trail of what went on at Roswell goes a little bit cold until the 1970’s when ufologists began to seriously look into the Roswell crash. However they were looking at it as being an extraterrestrial UFO rather than a Soviet one.

Then in 1989 the vial of secrecy around area 51 and specifically S-4 was lifted thanks to one Bob Lazar. Lazar claimed that in 1988 he got a job through a contact of his, Edward Teller (father of the H bomb) to work at S-4 with EG&G where he saw 9 UFO disks and even claims to have seen a small alien. When Lazar exposed this he was highly ridiculed, then again he did claim that he saw little green men and their space ships inside a secret government facility that does not officially exist so what else did he expect. Perhaps that was the idea, perhaps like Walter Haut, Lazar really did believe he was working on UFO’s and seeing Aliens because that’s what he was told so that if he ever did attempt to expose the truth he could be easily dismissed.

The thing that convinces me about this theory is that it ties in so well with actual historical events, we know for instance about operation paper clip, we know about the horrors of Auschwitz, we know that America does have a history of human experimentation, we know that the Russians could have gained the technology for developing this disk from the Russians and then there is this little nugget I would like to add.

In 2005 Channel four in the UK made a fantastic documentary looking at UFO’s they concluded by claiming that what some people were observing to be UFO’s was in fact secret technology the Americans had stole from the Germans in WWII. They claimed that it was this technology that caused many WWII pilots to see the so called Foo fighters and that the Americans had liberated this technology form the Germans under operation paper clip. What if the Americans had actually acquired the technology from this downed Russian disk that crashed at Roswell.

I would strongly advise anyone who is interested in this to read Annie Jacobson’s book at watch the Channel four documentary UFO's The Secret Evidance

edit on 26-6-2011 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 01:28 PM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I like this theory, but highly speculative. Seems like there are so many different ideas and theories, it’s hard to know what is true and what is not. I guess I would have to say I lean towards military operations and research. There is to much for the government to lose if that technology was to get out. And if it was alien, I’m not sure what harm there is to let the public know. So why such a huge effort to distort and hide the truth by our military? I think the answer is pretty obvious. But again, I could be wrong.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 01:36 PM
This is extremely interesting. Good find. I am anxious to hear what ATS'ers have to say about this.

I don't think this theory is intended to completely debunk alien/UFO theories. The government used our belief in aliens to cover-up their disgusting agenda. Even if it wasn't aliens that crashed at Roswell, there is still plenty of convincing evidence that they have been here.

I feel like the kid who just learned that Santa is not real. That revelation made me feel like a fool that had been manipulated, and the Santa fallacy was probably just a means for conditioning us to accept continued lies and manipulations in the future.

We have always been manipulated by TPTB, and this is another example of their debauchery.

My heart goes out to the adults and children who were subjected to those horrifying experiments. It makes me wonder about all the missing children in the US who disappear with no trace. Are some of them lying in a secret lab somewhere right now, being tortured and maimed to further some psychopathic government agenda?

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 01:52 PM
reply to post by scaredlady

I am a bit like Mulder from the X-Files when it comes to UFO’s as in “I want to believe” I am very open to the idea of the existence of extraterrestrials who visit earth. This thread is not intended as a “debunk” of the winder UFO conspiracy or indeed the Roswell conspiracy rather just a alternative view point that I have came across. For me personally the conspiracy I have outlined in the OP is the one that most closely reflects what I believe of the Roswell incident however I am very open to other theories.

I think the interesting thing about this theory is that it does raise the question “what are they doing now?”.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 02:11 PM
These threads about this very book are beginning to verge on a viral spam campaign.. Use the search facility and you can your two penneth to one of the numerous other threads discussing the same work.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 02:15 PM
reply to post by FireMoon

I did do a search for “Annie Jacobson” and roswell about found one thread by a guy who just pasted a paragraph form the news and basically said “discuss”.

I don’t think that really does the theory any justice, I don’t think there is any thread that is outlining her entire theory the way I have and I have also added to slightly and put the narrative into chronological order.

This thread is not about her book, this thread is about the theory I have discussed in the OP, so what are you opinions on that may I ask?

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 02:32 PM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

my thoughts are, someone who doesn't even know what a dirty bomb is and expresses surprise that we were testing nuclear devices above ground, shouldn't be writing books on conspiracies but doing a basic course on human technology of the 20th century.

Furthermore anyone who truly believes the Russkis would spend millions of roubles to crash a super secret craft into a desert,miles from anywhere whilst wholly relying on Dwight Yoakam to find it, really does need to get out a bit more.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 02:45 PM
reply to post by FireMoon

Interesting, so you have read it then.

I can forgive the mistake over the term “dirty bomb” , like i said though this thread is not about her book its about her theory. If the Americans could afford the Manhattan project then why could the Russians not afford to pull this off.

Also they plan was not to crash it, the plan was for it to land and create the appearance that aliens were visiting American and thus crate mass panic.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 03:39 PM
I'd refer you to one of the other threads on his very subject tucked away on page 2 of this part of the forum..

Anniie JacobseRussian faked Roswell

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by FireMoon

Have you actually read the entire book or watch the Channel four documentary?

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 03:52 PM
I've listened to 2 interviews with her, in both of which she goes to great pains to point out the Roswell bit is right at the end of the book and is only a tiny part of the book. The rest I assume is so tediously boring that no=one actually can be bothered to talk about it. As someone pointed out on here on yet another thread about this tome. The fact is so few people would know the details about Area 51 that finding out who the mole is should take TPB about 30 seconds on a really slow day. File under disinformation and just forget it, is my advice.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 04:15 PM
reply to post by FireMoon

Again, I don’t want to make this about her book, but there is allot more to it than just this theory. The book talks about a whole range of government cover ups, the Orion project the USS pueblo, the moon landings there is actually quite allot in it. the early stuff about nuclear weapons is really very interesting.

posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 04:30 PM
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

I owe you an apology. It wasn't my intention to insinuate that you were trying to debunk aliens. I was actually directing the statement to anyone who might be tempted to express that opinion. You clearly are not in debunk mode here and that is refreshing.

In other words, I'm on your side in thinking this could be a logical and highly probable explanation regarding Area 51, and am thankful for the information. This is something most of us would not have been aware of, so thank you for posting.

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 01:45 PM
reply to post by scaredlady

Thank you for that response, and I am glad you have found this thread interesting.

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 02:51 PM
I think your theory is just as plausible as the extra-terrestrial craft theory. There are a few reasons why I do:

1: What better cover than mutated humans/aliens.
--If you crash in enemy territory wearing a soviet issue flight suit with the sickle & hammer on your arm then automatically it can be reasonably assumed you are soviet. But...if you crash in enemy territory wearing tin foil clothing with a "non-human" bulbous head and other deformities then it's not so obvious that you represent a specific nation.

2: Why pick New Mexico?
--Alamagordo/Dulce/Trinity test site/White Sands test facility-missile range. When an area is so steeped in US Nuclear research and testing it could easily be a target for aliens (let's see how little brother's science is coming along...) but could easily be a target for Soviet spies (let's see how the enemy's science is coming along...)

3: Where better to run a real world test of your fully armed and operational space station....I mean stealth technology (sorry for the Star Wars gag...ok, not
--Knowing full well that New Mexico "houses" almost all of the US nuclear community it is safe to assume that it would be well monitored by radar and anti-aircraft emplacements. If you are confident that your tech is truly operational then why NOT make a test run against your enemies' tech?

That being said, how did the US military arrive so quickly on scene? Well, maybe it wasn't as stealthy as Stalin thought or maybe, whatever caused it to crash also caused the radar cross-section of the craft to expand large enough for our radars to finally get a hit. Of course this paragraph may be considered off topic so I'll wait until later to go off on that particular

All I'm saying is that the Soviet theory is just as plausible as any other at this point in time. Well, ok, I also want to say that I'm normally not a nit-picker when it comes to misspelling and grammar because I'm smart enough to know what you're trying to get across but I think the OP needs to make at least ONE correction, that being the reference to a "flying soccer"...LOL I almost spit coffee on my keyboard when that visual came up...a bunch of people standing around in awe of a floating giant soccer

Thanks for the post OP, I haven't read the book yet due to my opinion of the author's lack of research in certain areas but this thread brings up an interesting point. Thanks again!


posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:17 PM
I think it's pure disinformation. A bit of truth mixed with a lot of fiction and rubbish.
Lazar is part of the deliberate disinformation-campaign just like Corso.
The Nazis did build saucers but they were still in an experimental phase at the end of the war. These saucers weren't captured during operation paperclip, the saucers were flown to Antarctica and the scientists and forced laborers were sent there too. Not everyone was allowed to come along because of the crimes they committed.

Roswell started to make headlines shortly after a lot of stuff was surfacing concerning the Nazi UFOs. Coincidence? I don"t think so. There are so many hints, events, rumors, circumstantial evidence that points to "the third world-power", even the political situation in Germany fits right in.

The Nazi UFOs are the smoking gun!!!

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:33 PM
reply to post by Apex Predator

Thanks for the response, I just want to make it clear, I am not taking the credit for this theory it is Annie Jacobson’s theory, I have added a little bit to it but for the most part it’s her theory in my words. For those who point out the errors in her book I would like to point out that her research is based on the interviews with the people who worked at Area 51 and you can nitpick but for the most part the details revealed are interesting and believable.

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:34 PM

Originally posted by RegenstormThe Nazis did build saucers but they were still in an experimental phase at the end of the war. These saucers weren't captured during operation paperclip, the saucers were flown to Antarctica and the scientists and forced laborers were sent there too. Not everyone was allowed to come along because of the crimes they committed

What evidence do you have to reinforce these wild claims?

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:38 PM
reply to post by Regenstorm

If you had read the entire thread you would have got the bit at the end about the Channel four documentary on the Nazi UFO’s. I also stated in the OP the possibility that as part of the Russian equivalent of operation paper clip the acquired the Nazi technology and after the Roswell crash the Americans then reverse engineered the technology to develop it for themselves.

Also do you have any sources about your Antarctica claim

posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:40 PM
reply to post by Turiddu

Here's some food for the brain. It's a very broad topic which is really worth looking into.

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