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Doubting claims to masonry, any one else?

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posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 08:21 AM
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I am sure there are one or two masons on this board but sometime i have to wonder when i see some of these posts. Like the guy who describes the initiation as "awesome" (the 8 exclamation marks really did it for me). It just defies belief..

While writing to a machine its reallly not that hard to come up with a whole bunch of claims. Would you know the difference? Observe:


I am the king of england!

See you can now try your upmost to prove this wrong but you can't... not even close...

See what i mean ther are a lot of claims to Masonry here that I quite frankly doubt. Not all claims mind, just that there're so many claims...

Any one else have their suspicions?

N.B. I AM NOT EXCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF MASONS BEING HERE JUST DOUBTING IT!




posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 08:28 AM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
N.B. I AM NOT EXCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF MASONS BEING HERE JUST DOUBTING IT!


I am with the Lodge Star in the East #640 on the roll of the Grand Lodge of Scotland. If you would like, I can give you the website address and you can contact them directly to ask if I am a member in good standing. If you would like, I can U2U my personal information to you. I even have my own website and can give you this as well and you can call me at home to verify it. Do you think that this would be enough proof?



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 08:32 AM
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Um ... why would someone lie about being a mason?
I don't understand what the big deal is. Either they
are or they aren't. What would be the point of telling
a lie that you are one? To learn their super secret
handshake or something?



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 08:41 AM
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Originally posted by Corinthas
I am sure there are one or two masons on this board but sometime i have to wonder when i see some of these posts. Like the guy who describes the initiation as "awesome" (the 8 exclamation marks really did it for me). It just defies belief..

While writing to a machine its reallly not that hard to come up with a whole bunch of claims. Would you know the difference? Observe:


I am the king of england!

See you can now try your upmost to prove this wrong but you can't... not even close...

See what i mean ther are a lot of claims to Masonry here that I quite frankly doubt. Not all claims mind, just that there're so many claims...

Any one else have their suspicions?

N.B. I AM NOT EXCLUDING THE POSSIBILITY OF MASONS BEING HERE JUST DOUBTING IT!


A rather pathetic attempt, you obviously didn't do your homework, a hallmark of the detractors of Freemasonry.

King of England? you are not, neither is anyone else. The reigning Monarch is Queen Elizabeth II, and upon her death the Royal Crown will pass to Prince Charles eldest son (Charles divorce from Diana negates his eligibility to be King).

QED

I also imagine the "King" would capitalize "England" and "King" as well!

The posters within "Secret Societies" who portray themselves as Masons, are with one or two exceptions the "real thing". The exceptions are readily identified by the derision heaped upon them by Mason (and some non-Mason) contributors.

Your doubt is curious, perhaps the wealth of experience you have to draw upon matches your due diligence in creating a improvable proposition.

The Monarchy.


[edit on 10/8/2004 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 09:02 AM
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Mirthful Me :

Er.. I didn't have any homework did I? I will try to improve the capitalization of my proper nouns in future! ;p

Where is that "hallmark" 'coz I was not detracting from anything. Are you sure it was MY text you were reading?

Hang on my proof-o-meter just went "pop"!!


Q E D


My proposition was only meant to be improvable in the confines of this text.

Here is a nother one then: I am green. Without reaching into the real world just stay right here and prove me wrong purely with this ASCII stuff!

Its these "one or two" exceptions I am talking about.

Flyers Fan: Exacly my point, why bother?

I was just expressing a) doubt and b) asking if then why?

JCminJapan:
Thanks for your offer but I don't really need to go that far..



[edit on 10/8/2004 by Corinthas]



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 09:30 AM
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well let me tell you. they do not like any conspiracy references and their is most certainly some sort of political structure involving those in the ATS Forum and Network. I have been warned and had threads removed and I have not been here even one week. They really take offense to whatever "conspiracy" threads are made. Last time I checked, that is what this site was about. They are a very conrolling group of freaks that get all riled up when you even as so make a small comment or post. They can insult or say whatever they want and you cannot. I find that very dictatorish of them. I will not stand down. I will maintain the fight to prove the largest conspiracy in the world. When I do, we will all know the truth.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 09:52 AM
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ummm, your warn was for excessive quoting right?

Threads just complaining of others are regularly taken down. Wasn`t your thread just a complaint about one person?


If someone posts something negative about what you feel is right, aren`t you going to say something? I am not quite sure where your proof to any conspiracy is....


I am a little
on where you are getting all of this. I think your main problem is that you resort to name calling and childish remarks and not provide enough reputable evidence. I am not meaning this is a mean way, just some constructive criticism on my part to help you out on the board and to avoid any warnings in the future for abusive comments of other members.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 09:58 AM
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Corinthas:

Your skepticism is healthy and appreciated, yet please worry not we know who is and who isnt one of us and reveal the pretenders real identity openly on the forum, this has occured several times.

Dribbler:

I was just wondering, does your name illude to an action in sport, ie. Dribbling a basketball, or rather dribbling like an infant? Just a thought.

Individuals like yourself always seem to miss the point. None of us Masons (excuse me brothers for speaking for us as a whole but I feel there is a pretty strong concensus on the statement im about to make) on this site have an issue with individuals trying to get to the bottom or truth of a supposed conspiracy regarding the craft or any other organizations. The issue we have is when the claims and accusations are handled in such a negative, ignorant and attrocious manner, when truth is not the objective but rather slander. Very few have supported their claims with any viable evidence, even fewer have done any actual research or have a background of knowledge which permits them to not only understand Freemasonry on a surface level but also discuss it and filter out the refuse that they will no doubt come across when looking into the topic.

In all honestly if you are going to make slanderous, false accusations about the craft at least do it with a bit of intellect.

[edit on 8/10/04 by Khonsu]



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 10:46 AM
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Hey, I'll put forward evidence that I'm actually a Mason. is the list of officers for 2004 for my Lodge (Avon Glen #170 in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada)Here.

OK, now scroll down to where it says "Inner Guard." See who's Inner Guard? Yup.

As for people being Masons, they tend to know modes of recognition, have reasonable claims about what goes on in Lodge, and be able to explain how they identify themselves as a Mason. I propose the following: You know I'm a Mason. I will vouch right away for Masonic Light, JCMinJapan, MirthfulMe, Leveller, DarkTalon, Orangemonkey, MaskedAvatar, Senrak, Gerard, and TheronDunn. There are others, but I don't have all the names on a list by my computer. I will try to add names as I become aware of them.

Now, I must say, I've read why you're doubting people of being Masons, and the doubts are downright absurd. To believe that people are not Masons because you believe all Masons are middle-aged (and therefore "boring" by your judgement) flies in the face of a fact you can find on just about every Grand Lodge web page, namely that any man over 21 can become a Mason. The fact that you think all Masons are rich is downright absurd (I was unemployed for about four months in the first year I was a Mason... I also know a lot of Masons who have been unemployed). The fact that you think all Masons are powerful is likewise absurd. You are coming up with an imaginary strawman Mason, then complaining that you don't see him on this board.


[edit on 11-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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I have been warned and had threads removed and I have not been here even one week.


you are on such a roll, have you learned anything yet?



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 12:58 PM
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Also, let me point out that the young man who began the thread "Masonic Initiation Was Awesome" had for a while corresponded with several of us whom were already Masons, asking questions and gaining information on the subject.
Eventually, he decided himself to ask for admission, and was initiated. Like practically every man who receives Masonic initiation, he walked away enthused, and posted that simply as a "thank you" to the Masonic brethren who have spoken with him in the past.
I think most Masons here would likewise testify that they found their own initiation "awesome", and were thankful for it.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 12:58 PM
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I would have quit as soon as my example of "I'm the king of england" got shot down so easily.


Dribbler,
You just don't get it. If you re-read your posts, and the posts of others against you(mine included), you will see a difference. You resort to simple name calling and degrading comments. We, or most of us, tend to disprove, and respond in a witty, playful manner. Delivery my friend, delivery.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by Darktalon
Dribbler,
You just don't get it.


Indeed. This forum is for the serious discussion of secret societies, as well as organizations that are perceived as secret by the general public. Ad hominem attacks are not allowed, since this is just childish babbling instead of serious discussion.

If this individual is incapable of adult discussion, he would certainly be welcome on the forums of Freemasonry Watch and Ex-Masons For Jesus, where such childish displays and hate propaganda are not only allowed, but encouraged.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
This forum is for the serious discussion of secret societies, as well as organizations that are perceived as secret by the general public.


Well, Fratre, that, and of course talk about our secret lizard plans at world domination


[edit on 10-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 04:33 PM
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Hmmm. Dribbler's Dilemma. Kind of like the Kafka story where a mentally ill man decides he is dead. The family calls in doctors, finally priests and undertakers to try and convince the man he is not dead. And nothing works, because you cannot reason with the dead.

Dribblers Dilemma is a bit of an update on Epimenides' statement, such that:

"All masons are liars. Trust me, I know; because after all, I'm a mason!"

Driveler hasn't yet figured out that every 17th and 23rd letter of each post actually spells out secret passwords so the masons will know each other on this site.

Actually, I've been real impressed with the masons on this site, especially the frequent posters. They never reveal anything specific about their knowledge, but a fellow can pick up on their choice of words and realize the difference between an poser who tries to learn masonry at the reading room in the local library, or who tries to be an eavesdropper when his grandad converses with other masons.

There's all the difference in the world between a brother who went through the degrees 30 years ago and faded away, and the fellow who teaches apprentices in a lecture every month.

It's a privelege to listen to you talk to each other. Personally, I'm just waiting for someone to tell me when I can be seated.

Maybe Driveler and Perez PI have been listening to Monty Python's "How to Spot a Freemason" one too many times.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 05:15 PM
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I never listened to Monty Python ever, althought i heard he is a commedian of some sorts.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Freemasons have effective means of recognizing one another. There are many more than "one or two" visiting ATS.

I have never really seen this Forum as an effective vehicle for discussing views about the contribution of Freemasonry or about the purpose of Freemasonry. Attempts at those discussions tend to begin and end with antagonism. The discussions are not steered or purposeful, just a series of unsubstantiated claims followed by attempted defenses followed by mudslinging and attacks.

I share a concern about the preponderance of "fake" identities at ATS. There are existing members launching new IDs quite frequently for no particular purpose as well as the standard trolls that are a feature of any internet gathering "place".



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by dribbler
They are a very conrolling group of freaks that get all riled up when you even as so make a small comment or post. They can insult or say whatever they want and you cannot. /quote]

Dribbler, you are the one who insults & gets all riled up. And you fail both in showing courtesy & in contributing anything but your own prejudices to any discussion.





I never listened to Monty Python ever, althought i heard he is a commedian of some sorts /quote]


DetectivePerez, Monty Python is now defunct. It consisted of 6 men, mainly Oxford & Cambridge graduates.



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy
As for people being Masons, they tend to know modes of recognition, have reasonable claims about what goes on in Lodge, and be able to explain how they identify themselves as a Mason. I propose the following: You know I'm a Mason. I will vouch right away for Masonic Light, JCMinJapan, MirthfulMe, Leveller, DarkTalon, Orangemonkey, MaskedAvatar, and TheronDunn. There are others, but I don't have all the names on a list by my computer. I will try to add names as I become aware of them.

[edit on 10-8-2004 by AlexKennedy]


Bro. Alex,

Don't forget me....Dribbler's favorite troll-target (eat your heart out Mirthful Me) I'm a member of St. Mark's Lodge #93 Cape Girardeau, Missouri.

S&F

-John



posted on Aug, 10 2004 @ 06:26 PM
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I really should have thought through the idea of being the final word on Masonic membership a little better. Well, take this: since all the people I listed above are vouched by me to be Masons, they can surely likewise vouch for other Masons, no? Much like in real life.



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