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A Catalyst for A Paradigm Shift.

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posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by UmbraSumus
 


We don't need laws. We already know the natural consequences of our actions. We don't need to invent consequences or laws. When you don't have freedom, you walk a narrow path. You become narrow-minded and thus easier to control. You are manipulable and gullible. When you have freedom, you can walk anywhere. You are more open-minded and you don't need anyone to tell you how to live your life because it is YOUR path. If no one is telling you how to live your life, you won't be telling anyone how to live theirs either. The concept of judgment fades away.

The free life allows you to see things more clearly. You accept that everyone has free will and you respect it. You respect the choice of someone killing someone, but you also see that act for what it is. You see the pain that it causes and you make it your choice not to because you know that you shouldn't.

When people are made free, hierarchies disappear. The concepts of competition and greed fade away. When freedom is established, peace shows up more and more than it ever could. There won't be anarchy because the new found peace feels heavenly.

Everyone wants what they can't have. If you can have anything, you won't want anything. You will take only what you need.




posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 10:37 PM
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]Originally posted by smithjustinb





We don't need laws. We already know the natural consequences of our actions.


Knowing the naturally consequences of our actions does not automatically stop us from acting, thats why society formally enacts such violations of social norms into criminal law.
Most of our behaviour is formed by the process of socialisation. You are viewing this solely from the perspective of a solitary individual . This ignores the glaring fact that we are social animals which inculcate `acceptable` behaviours, attitudes and beliefs which integrate us into social groups.






We don't need to invent consequences or laws. When you don't have freedom, you walk a narrow path. You become narrow-minded and thus easier to control. You are manipulable and gullible. When you have freedom, you can walk anywhere. You are more open-minded and you don't need anyone to tell you how to live your life because it is YOUR path. If no one is telling you how to live your life, you won't be telling anyone how to live theirs either. The concept of judgment fades away.




If your freedom to walk anywhere leads you to trample my crop of potatoes I will have something to say about how your freedom impinges on my freedom . I will judge you.




The free life allows you to see things more clearly.


Much like the act of paying attention to something involves shutting out most of the information bombarding us at any given moment - it is often the perimeters of our lives which frame our decisions. The Paradox of Choice - Why Less is More




You accept that everyone has free will and you respect it. You respect the choice of someone killing someone, but you also see that act for what it is. You see the pain that it causes and you make it your choice not to because you know that you shouldn't
.

"you respect it"

Why do you presume that others will automatically respect your choices - you are being extremely naive Justin.




When people are made free, hierarchies disappear.


Can you give me an example of this ?




The concepts of competition and greed fade away. When freedom is established, peace shows up more and more than it ever could. There won't be anarchy because the new found peace feels heavenly.


To understand why we do what we do today, you have to look deep into our past, we are not suddenly going to begin behaving differently just because you wish it be so.





If you can have anything, you won't want anything. You will take only what you need.



The obesity epidemic currently witnessed throughout the developed world should dissuade you from such wishful thinking.




edit on 25-6-2011 by UmbraSumus because: to correct quotes



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus
]Originally posted by smithjustinb


We don't need laws. We already know the natural consequences of our actions.


Knowing the naturally consequences of our actions does not automatically stop us from acting, thats why society formally enacts such violations of social norms into criminal law.
Most of our behaviour is formed by the process of socialisation. You are viewing this solely from the perspective of a solitary individual . This ignores the glaring fact that we are social animals which inculcate `acceptable` behaviours, attitudes and beliefs which integrate us into social groups.


No this is being taken into consideration. Within the law of freedom though, responsibility is the key to production and survival. There's no one telling you you have to work to survive and thrive, you just know you do so you do it. This splits society into two main groups. There would be those that work for themselves becoming self-sustaining, and there would be those that work as a group becoming highly productive and able to accomplish greater things.

It all becomes such a conscientious way of life that it becomes a social group itself. The ones serving others are smiled at by the ones working for others and those are the people they associate themselves with. The ones working for themselves acknowledge others that work for themselves but are outcasts by the ones serving others.

Creativity becomes the norm.



You accept that everyone has free will and you respect it. You respect the choice of someone killing someone, but you also see that act for what it is. You see the pain that it causes and you make it your choice not to because you know that you shouldn't


"you respect it"

Why do you presume that others will automatically respect your choices - you are being extremely naive Justin.


The law of freedom is respected for having been solely responsible for sending us into an age of peace and prosperity.



When people are made free, hierarchies disappear.


Can you give me an example of this ?


When someone has more power than another and controls people, they establish a hierarchy. With the law of freedom, control is illegal. Also, the monetary system establishes hierarchies of social splendor. Within the law of freedom, everything is free, therefore no one can be seen to be better than anyone else because they have nicer things. Everyone is entitled to anything.



The concepts of competition and greed fade away. When freedom is established, peace shows up more and more than it ever could. There won't be anarchy because the new found peace feels heavenly.


To understand why we do what we do today, you have to look deep into our past, we are not suddenly going to begin behaving differently just because you wish it be so.


I admit we had to have these systems in the beginning up until now to learn an appropriate way of life. Now we can take the lessons that living under the systems have taught us and become sovereign. There is no reference for the law of freedom in our past, so I can't give you an example of it ever working or not working. All the law of freedom does is allow us to be what God intended us to be rather than what nations intended us to be. God's plan is greater than man's plan I assure you.

edit on 25-6-2011 by UmbraSumus because: to correct quotes

edit on 26-6-2011 by smithjustinb because: erwqe



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 11:04 AM
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OP,

What exactly is it about freedom of expression that you feel so restricted about? you want to drive as if you're in a video game, without regarding the fact that other drivers will be doing the same, older drivers, younger drivers, stupid drivers, reckless drivers. You think you'll be able to spot some lunatic that can't brake coming up to a stop light while driving 70 toward it, while you're on the street about to cross it perpendicularly, going whatever grand-theft-auto speed limit you like?

What if it was your mother or father, brother or sister.. lover or whoever that was driving and got killed by someone technically following your law?

I mean, are these the ruminations of a pissed off young kid or is this intentionally being ignorant of the real world?

Take into consideration the diversity of the economy that runs this nation. Do you really think people are gonna be teaching our kids, or ourselves, if no one is going to pay them? What kind of a monetary system do you imagine in your so called "true freedom". Who do you expect is going to farm the food, raise the livestock, that gets processed and put into our mouths every single day? Not people who have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want ( I'd imagine a farming community or estate would quit depending on an economy that doesn't exist and just raise enough food for themselves -- they'd still be in good shape, we'd be screwed).

To enact "True Freedom", you'd have to change the setting. What would we do with all the buildings in the cities? House people? Maybe. Who would feed them? I can tell you that 200 million americans (very rough estimate) aren't gonna just pick up their bags and change their lives, seed potatoes in public parks.

You would have to place it on another planet altogether because this one is over-populated, over-industrialized for your ideal.

On another note, what do you expect to do with the mentally ill or the sick, the dieing... How do your doctors get paid to treat their patients? Corn?... Who will be diagnosing the ill? What about the psychotic?

I do apologize if I offend anyone, but the notion of "True Freedom" as described is narrow minded. If you can imagine Total Control and Total Freedom being on a continuum because they actually are, you need to be somewhere close to the middle to achieve some kind of a balance, which is the most productive way the live in most aspects of life.
edit on 26-6-2011 by JustStop because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


" With the law of freedom, control is illegal. "

Is this not a contradiction in terms.

Law:
The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties

Freedom:
The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wantswithout hindrance or restraint.

Illegal:
forbidden by law or statute.



" With the law of freedom, control is illegal. "

Give some serious thought to that sentence - it is riddled with contradictions.

----------


You are just saying stuff that sounds nice without any real thought or consideration for the realities of life and the human condition.

Your wishes to see a more equitable society are commendable - but you deluded if you think we will suddenly no longer live in a world without competition etc.

You should examine those aspects of human behaviour which you abbhor and ask yourself why do they exist ? Until you understand this there is no hope of changing or at least modifying such behaviour.


We may have better fortunes cultivating an attitude in society that utilises humans innate competitive spirit for the betterment of mankind. etc.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


" With the law of freedom, control is illegal. "

Is this not a contradiction in terms.

Law:
The system of rules that a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and may enforce by the imposition of penalties

Freedom:
The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wantswithout hindrance or restraint.

Illegal:
forbidden by law or statute.



" With the law of freedom, control is illegal. "

Give some serious thought to that sentence - it is riddled with contradictions.

----------


You are just saying stuff that sounds nice without any real thought or consideration for the realities of life and the human condition.

Your wishes to see a more equitable society are commendable - but you deluded if you think we will suddenly no longer live in a world without competition etc.

You should examine those aspects of human behaviour which you abbhor and ask yourself why do they exist ? Until you understand this there is no hope of changing or at least modifying such behaviour.


We may have better fortunes cultivating an attitude in society that utilises humans innate competitive spirit for the betterment of mankind. etc.


The human behavior is a result of the current paradigm. The law of allowing freedom of creative expression and intention changes the paradigm. If you could just suspend your beliefs for a moment and objectively dissect the domino effect of this proposition, we might could be on the same page. There isn't total freedom. The law of freedom is still a law. But it is a natural law that is based on allowing human nature to be human nature.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by JustStop
OP,

What exactly is it about freedom of expression that you feel so restricted about? you want to drive as if you're in a video game, without regarding the fact that other drivers will be doing the same, older drivers, younger drivers, stupid drivers, reckless drivers. You think you'll be able to spot some lunatic that can't brake coming up to a stop light while driving 70 toward it, while you're on the street about to cross it perpendicularly, going whatever grand-theft-auto speed limit you like?

What if it was your mother or father, brother or sister.. lover or whoever that was driving and got killed by someone technically following your law?

I mean, are these the ruminations of a pissed off young kid or is this intentionally being ignorant of the real world?

Take into consideration the diversity of the economy that runs this nation. Do you really think people are gonna be teaching our kids, or ourselves, if no one is going to pay them? What kind of a monetary system do you imagine in your so called "true freedom". Who do you expect is going to farm the food, raise the livestock, that gets processed and put into our mouths every single day? Not people who have the freedom to do whatever the hell they want ( I'd imagine a farming community or estate would quit depending on an economy that doesn't exist and just raise enough food for themselves -- they'd still be in good shape, we'd be screwed).

To enact "True Freedom", you'd have to change the setting. What would we do with all the buildings in the cities? House people? Maybe. Who would feed them? I can tell you that 200 million americans (very rough estimate) aren't gonna just pick up their bags and change their lives, seed potatoes in public parks.

You would have to place it on another planet altogether because this one is over-populated, over-industrialized for your ideal.

On another note, what do you expect to do with the mentally ill or the sick, the dieing... How do your doctors get paid to treat their patients? Corn?... Who will be diagnosing the ill? What about the psychotic?

I do apologize if I offend anyone, but the notion of "True Freedom" as described is narrow minded. If you can imagine Total Control and Total Freedom being on a continuum because they actually are, you need to be somewhere close to the middle to achieve some kind of a balance, which is the most productive way the live in most aspects of life.
edit on 26-6-2011 by JustStop because: (no reason given)


I have free will despite the governments best effort to take that away. But I have a repressed creative nature that is the result of oppression.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by smithjustinb
All the law of freedom does is allow us to be what God intended us to be rather than what nations intended us to be. God's plan is greater than man's plan I assure you.


And which `god` might that be ?

What is god`s plan for me ?



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by smithjustinb
All the law of freedom does is allow us to be what God intended us to be rather than what nations intended us to be. God's plan is greater than man's plan I assure you.


And which `god` might that be ?

What is god`s plan for me ?


Whether you believe in a creator or creation is, in this instance, irrelevant.

The creator or the creation's plan for you is what is naturally you. You are naturally free so to try to limit that limits your being. To accept limitation is to accept a lie. This is the beginning of the loss of your potential.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I give up .....smithjustinb.

I can see what you are trying to say , but you made no attempt to grasp what I was trying to elucidate for you.

All the best .

Umbra Sumus.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I give up .....smithjustinb.

I can see what you are trying to say , but you made no attempt to grasp what I was trying to elucidate for you.

All the best .

Umbra Sumus.


I share the same sentiment. OP hasn't put thought into any of this.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by JustStop

Originally posted by UmbraSumus
reply to post by smithjustinb
 


I give up .....smithjustinb.

I can see what you are trying to say , but you made no attempt to grasp what I was trying to elucidate for you.

All the best .

Umbra Sumus.


I share the same sentiment. OP hasn't put thought into any of this.


Well I guess we all just missed our opportunity to a free and better world. Better luck next time.



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