Secret Vatican Library...How can Catholics put up with this?

Originally posted by Atlantien
I had heard that the Vatican had a Bible with 6 more books in it as opposed to the Bible that the rest of the world has. Now if this is true, what is in these books and why are they hidden from the followers of the church?

You're referring to the "Exocanonical books". They are found in every single Catholic Bible. They were taken out of the Protestant Bible by Martin Luther and other founders of the Protestant faith.

Other versions of canon are still around, as the user who linked the article on Wikipedia pointed out. The article tells you what the books are and links to many of them which you can read online: en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by doctornamtab

So say you're a Catholic. We all KNOW theres a secret Vatican library.

Where is Wikileaks when you really need them?

Catholicism and all of the major world religions do not want people to see the spiritual light. they want us to stay in spiritual darkness and in fear of an "angry, vengeful" God who is gonna make us all burn in "hell" if we don't live according to the ways of the "church," synagogue, mosque, whatever. They probably have texts proving that it's a big, big lie... They don't want us to know.

If it's written by man, it is fallible.

Only thing that infallible are numbers.

reply to post by VonDoomen


The Catholic church does not condone pedophelia, it is a sin/wrong & not exclusive to Catholic church, & Catholics as well as other faiths are able to think for themselves, if they choose, just common sense.

But I will say the way they dealt with some/many(?) of the cases was not right.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth

Catholicism and all of the major world religions do not want people to see the spiritual light. they want us to stay in spiritual darkness and in fear of an "angry, vengeful" God who is gonna make us all burn in "hell" if we don't live according to the ways of the "church," synagogue, mosque, whatever. They probably have texts proving that it's a big, big lie... They don't want us to know.

the Bible is a "text" that proves the above straw man to be a "big, fat lie".

We aren't justified by what we do or don't do, or live according to the ways of the church.

reply to post by 0731JLVR


Of course, the Church does not condone pedophile, sexual abuse, etc. publicly, BUT,they do seem to look-the-other-way, sweep-it-under-the-rug or quietly settle out-of-court?

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


Actually, i believe that the Roman Governor of Judea crucified the man Jesus, after he was forced to by the Sanhedrin (Supreme Jewish Council) who rejected Jeshua Christos as the impending Jewish Messiah.

Roman Catholic (Universal) Christianity did not come into being until the 3rd Century AD under the Roman Emperor Constantine. Who incidentally only made Christianity the religion of the Empire because it was the most wide-spread and as such was most capable of uniting the empire under one belief system.

Originally posted by 5andman
reply to post by 0731JLVR

 

Of course, the Church does not condone pedophile, sexual abuse, etc. publicly, BUT,they do seem to look-the-other-way, sweep-it-under-the-rug or quietly settle out-of-court?

I agree, also just edited what I wrote/to add.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


I have to agree with you. I believe it was Pope Leo X (Tenth) who is alledged to have said "..It has served us well, this myth of Christ."

As for texts that prove christianity a falsehood, check out the Gospel of Thomas Didimus (Thomas the Twin) found in 1945 at Nag Hammadi in Egypt. The Gospel of Thomas is alledged to be actual sayings of the man Jesus recorded by Thomas, and as a document, was rejected by the early Catholic Church for inclusion in the Bible (Book)

here are some fun fact I bet none of you know about this library

www.associatedcontent.com... aticans_secret_library_separating.html

reply to post by doctornamtab


If you're really that curious, this link may interest you...
Vatican Secret Archives

reply to post by Philojoshua


Alleged is correct. He never said it. It was quoted from an anti-Catholic playwrite named Bale from one of his works.


Eric

reply to post by LargeFries


LargeFries "In that year, the bank had deposits of $40 billion, and annual profits of $4 million. After an interview with the head of the bank it was noted that "it is unclear how much working capital the bank has beyond its deposits", and that some estimated it as high as $1 billion.

In an interview published in Money Week, Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka, the Vatican's "finance minister", claims that The Vatican's assets are $5 billion. Five Billion Dollars.

I've done more research than you have for your friendly post. Feel free to look up the rest yourself. "

It's a little scary to think that you know how much research I've done on this topic. I'm going to have to wear my aluminum foil hat to block your psychic powers.

Anyway, you are happy to mention the Vatican Bank was making an annual profit of four million dollars at the time of that audit. What you leave out is that from 1970 to 1983 the Vatican apparently was running at a deficit.

There are two main concerns here:

1) You are happy to discuss (either in specific or nebulous terms) the amount of money that the Church has or brings in. What you don't mention is how much the Church spends on hospices, orphanages, salaries, hospices, road work, schools, etc. You quote the Cardinals claim of 5 billion dollars and then repeat the amount for emphasis. That certainly sounds like a lot of money until you realize that the Harvard University in 2008 had 34 billion dollars and Yale had 22.5 billion dollars via endowments. 73 other universities had over a billion dollars each. Harvard has an annual operating budget (as of 2008) of over 3 billion dollars a year. Hopefully that puts these sort of figures into scale.

2) The existence of the statues, paintings and other artwork that you reference actually generate revenue on an annual and continued basis, providing money that can be used for paying for schools, hospitals, salaries, retirement plans, hospices, orphanages, etc.

Eric

I thought this thread was supposed to be about a "secret" Vatican library, not how rich the church is or that there are some pedophile priests. Don't those have their own threads sonewhere? Knock yourself out. Now, about this 'secret' library. Other than rumors and people who "KNOW!" there is one, there's not much evidence. But let's pretend for the sake of argument that there really is a very secret library full of secret books.

So?

What could those books possibly say that would result in damage to the faith? Another secret gospel? C'mon, we've got everything from the Gospel of Thomas, where Jesus makes out with Mary Magdalene much to the chagrin of the other apostles, to the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus Christ. There are dozens of purported gospels. How are you going to know for sure they are authentic? Carbon dating them is insufficient evidence. Is there some other record that would be damaging, some work by a contemporary of Josepheus that claimed Jesus was a homeless ruffian, perhaps? Even if one existed, how you could you possibly verify that it was worth the vellum it was scrached upon? We all know people will believe anything and write anything down. That doesn't make it true, and more to the point, there is no way to tell.

The answer to what damage a "secret" Vatican library would do to Christianity is that it would not damage it at all. Albert Schweizer, before he ran off to Africa, was a noted theologian who wrote one of the most seminal books about the life of Jesus ever written, 'The Quest for the Historical Jesus." in which one of his conclusions was that not only do we not really know what happened 2000 years ago, we cannot every know. It is beyond us.

So this idea that a secret library would damage the religion is fanciful at best.

Also, this idea that if you are not a Catholic, but some other offshoot Christian religion means you have nothing to do with it is ridiculous. There have always been offshoots, from the Gnostics to the Cathars, but current Christian religions can all trace themselves to about the 16th century, when Martin Luther and King Henry VIII had their little disagreements with the Pope to the 19th century when Joseph Smith used magic glasses to read the Book of Mormon. They're all related and have depended on the Catholic church for their existence from day one. The first 1500 years of the Christian religion resides largely with the Vatican. You can pretend it has nothing to do with you, but you're fooling yourselves. No matter what you personally believe, it is a major component of Western civilization.

Originally posted by Philojoshua
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours

 

Actually, i believe that the Roman Governor of Judea crucified the man Jesus, after he was forced to by the Sanhedrin (Supreme Jewish Council) who rejected Jeshua Christos as the impending Jewish Messiah.

Roman Catholic (Universal) Christianity did not come into being until the 3rd Century AD under the Roman Emperor Constantine. Who incidentally only made Christianity the religion of the Empire because it was the most wide-spread and as such was most capable of uniting the empire under one belief system.

This is true.

The first Christian church was the Greek church and meetings were held in homes, not corporate owned buildings..

The Catholic church was "created" by Roman Emperor Constantine solely to unify an empire in decline. Rome had fought the Christians for 300 years. He reasoned that fighting them only served to increase their numbers so if you could join them you could control them. Ever since then, the Christian church has been under the yoke of Rome and it's survivor system at the Vatican.

As such, the reason for a secret Vatican Library is that they have a lot to hide. This all does not deminish the Christian faith which is founded on man's personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not some human institution.

reply to post by EricD


You mean he alledgedly 'didn't say it'...

just as it is only alledged that Bale wrote it....

tektonics.org...

" ...is referenced in the Catholic Encyclopedia article noted below, which specifically says that this saying does not come down to us from Leo.

That alternative view, presented by this item from the online Catholic Encyclopedia, claims rather than the quote originated with a near-contemporary of Leo, a Catholic apostate named John Bale. No cite is given of any work where the quote appears; this is no better than what the Skeptics offer, for my purposes. A couple of the Skeptics have been asked about this Bale attribution, and significantly, their answers don't amount to much. Acharya S tells an inquirer that the quote to Leo "has been widely reported in numerous texts," and for her, that's good enough reason to think it genuine. "

I used to be catholic, now I am an aethiest, or a non believer of any religion. I am wondering why you are only calling the catholic's the one who hide things from you. All religions keep the truth from their paying customers-it's all a big lie, that's why-religion is something some guy made up, and now everyone has to hide the truth because people are to weak to simply believe in the truth-you die and turn into compost under the ground. And perhaps you will be lucky enough to have your body's molecules fly around the universe until a piece of carbon from your dead body mixes with water and air, and viola, life recreated after thousands or millions of years.

It amazes me how anyone that uses this site on a daily basis believes in religion. Fairy Tales...

Well I gotta go, me and that dragon from the Neverending Story are going to go fly around now...

Originally posted by doctornamtab
So say you're a Catholic. We all KNOW theres a secret Vatican library.

Why would you believe in a religion that keeps secrets from you? This is something I just dont understand. A lot of us are on ATS to uncover secrets, we abhor secrets. Secrets create hierarchy, control and power struggles. Doesn't sound like the teachings of Jesus to me.

Any help on how Catholics reconcile their faith in people who withhold VERY IMPORTANT information that may go back to the dawn of civilization would be appreciated.

Not a troll post. Just dont get it.

edit on 24-6-2011 by doctornamtab because: changed Christians to Catholics...my bad

How do you KNOW what's secret? The Vatican has a library that is available to any researcher but as the documents are incredibly old they are not put on public display for fear that exposure to sunlight and casual use they are in danger of being destroyed. What secret library are you speaking of, and do you have sources or are you just peddling a theory you have no proof of?

Originally posted by lifecitizen

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lifecitizen
Above and beyond that how do Catholics justify their leader covering up sex abuse>?

By adhering to that religion, they are condoning the abuse.

I am also perplexed by women that are Catholic and worship the misogynist leader- they have no say at all in their church besides- tea and biscuits anyone?

The sex abuse scandal is heinous and a huge topic deserving of it's own thread.

Unless you are referring to Jesus as the 'misogynist leader' you are seriously off base. Catholic's don't worship the Pope. He's another sinner like the rest of us.

Eric

I'm referring to the Pope.

And I seriously beg to differ- touch the Pope and it's like you guys have touched god. lol.

Maybe our understanding of the word 'worship' is different because from where I stand- the Pope is worshipped.

But I agree with you the Pope is a sinner- a leering villain in a frock too