Secret Vatican Library...How can Catholics put up with this?

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lifecitizen
Above and beyond that how do Catholics justify their leader covering up sex abuse>?

By adhering to that religion, they are condoning the abuse.

I am also perplexed by women that are Catholic and worship the misogynist leader- they have no say at all in their church besides- tea and biscuits anyone?

The sex abuse scandal is heinous and a huge topic deserving of it's own thread.

Unless you are referring to Jesus as the 'misogynist leader' you are seriously off base. Catholic's don't worship the Pope. He's another sinner like the rest of us.

Eric

I'm referring to the Pope.

And I seriously beg to differ- touch the Pope and it's like you guys have touched god. lol.

Maybe our understanding of the word 'worship' is different because from where I stand- the Pope is worshipped.

But I agree with you the Pope is a sinner- a leering villain in a frock too

I was raised a Catholic and the inherent illogicality of the whole paradigm was so blatant even as a small child.

The fact that they hide things does not surprise me at all, they have been doing it since the Council of Nicea in the 4th Century CE when they voted that Jesus the rabbi was actually the son of god and had magic powers and aligned his date of death and birthday with pagan equinoxes to unite pagans. Look up the Roman emperor Constantine.

The Catholic Church had two popes that turned out to be female, even though females are forbidden to be ordained.

The fact that they have a secret library means that they are withholding information from the believers of their god and therefore are corrupt.

Originally posted by concerned190
You should ask the catholics

now exactly which part of his post did you not understand there brother? he DID say MULTIPLE times the word catholic in his post, so why are you (and the other illiterates out there) telling him to ask the Catholics?
i am getting tired of all the trolls on this site. would the moderators please step up their efforts to get rid of those who are on this great site just to start trouble please? these people are making this site nere unbearable to look through. if im not mistaken in the rules there is a line about banning people who do not follow the rules. can we step up the banning efforts?
now back to my original rant (and i am sorry for ranting, truly i am.) are you illiterate or just ultimately lazyand blind? the only other thing i will say is there is a rule in the thing you agreed to when you checked the yes box (and you just im sure) happened to forget, no 1 line posts. learn to read, and count people. you will sound smarter for it...

Originally posted by Soldier of God
The vatican means nothing to me as a Christian... ask Catholics.

The vatican means nothing to me as a Christian...I'm Catholic!

Just because I'm not religous and disagree with most interpretations of the bible; Doesn't mean I don't believe in God.

But hardcore Christians (Catholic or other), Will condemn you and try and force thier religious views on you if you express your free thinking opinions. (Try talking to Daryll Myat on YT)

Anyhow I don't care much for the Vatican or thier dirty little secrets.

Originally posted by tom.farnhill
it is said that there are many different versions of the stories that make up the bible .
therefore the vatican has cherry picked the ones that suits their agenda ,
you will never see or hear of any the stories that contradict or challenge their version.

it also seems strange that of all the religions , the catholic religion is the wealthiest but some of the catholic countries are the poorest .

this fact surprises me not 1 bit. the church members have an obligation to give the church 10% of their income (now i'm not catholic, or christian, but is that net or gross income? are you supposed to add in your benefits as well?) to prove you love god, a supernatural, non corporeal being who has NO NEED OF MONEY. i do understand that this money is supposed to got toword helping the poor, but have you SEEN the inside of the Vatican? GOLD EVERYWHERE! they are the richest corporation on the face of the planet and do not think it is wrong to hoard wealth of that magnitude because it is all part of their "history."
now lets assume that you live in 1 of those poor nations that are predominately catholic, 10% is a hefty chunk of your income. that money gets to the local church, their bishops, take control of it and send a chunk back to the crooks in charge back in Vatican city. hence all the gold leaf, paintings, statuary, and rare books that NO ONE outside of a VERY select few people will ever see. they are in effect stealing from the poor to rape children, and push their own political agendas and the like. anyone wanna help the Nazis? the Vatican bank sure did. as well as the current pope who as far as i a concerned should be arrested for helping those genocidal maniacs during world war two. now i do realize that you were most likely using sarcasm here brother, but i had to post this response to make the Catholics realize that they are all being stolen from in the name of a false and controlling church. i for 1 will never understand how anyone can let some one else tell them what to believe. this sheep like way of thinking goes against everything i believe... but i guess that is why the priesthood is always refered to as Shepherds.

Originally posted by LHP666

Originally posted by doctornamtab
So say you're a Catholic. We all KNOW theres a secret Vatican library.

Why would you believe in a religion that keeps secrets from you? This is something I just dont understand.

Why? Why is easy to answer when one is raised in it. It's like the kids that are abused and don't know that it isn't normal. They think it is normal.

It's all child abuse.

the problem with your logic here is that i and many like me were raised to believe in the church (Catholic, Baptist, Pentacostal, Angelican, the brand does not mean a thing we were raised in it) and through observation and intellect we have come to understand that the church is corrupt and without any shred of reality. if a person uses their own deductive reasoning skills, most likely the outcome will be one of understanding that the beliefs that were imparted to them are nothing but a sham used to control us and make them even richer.

Not many people know just how BIG and exensive that archive is.

I've had some stress with my folks before about religion as I'm the first one to not believe in god in our family.

I told them I don't need to be part of a religion that hordes billions and billions of dollars and so much artwork that you can't even put a price on it and then comes around with a little basket and asks for money while most churches have way too much gold in them.

Most people just don't want to believe it.

reply to post by LargeFries


"The amount of cash that flows to The Vatican on a monthly basis is obviously staggering"...try his...when the pope showed up in the Northeast back in the 90's,one church "sold" ticket to see him by having bake sales,the ones who raised the most money got the tickets.....that ignited a frenzy of baking/selling that raised over 50,000 for on church for one week......mulitply that by every church near where he shows up,by all his trips...that alone is a money making operation....the way he is worshipped,he could make one trip a year and fund the whole schmeer

The Vatican library is MASSIVE. There are parts under lock and key where no one is permitted to go. Some of it may be to protect ancient artifacts, of course, but that is not the only reason.

I agree with Advantage, that if many of the documents/ books were released it would severely damage the Catholic church. For example, The Book of Thomas was omitted from the Bible because of the passage "Look under a rock, and there you will find me". The Church figured if people knew they could find God under a rock, they would not go to church. lol.

When it was discovered that the earth revolved around the sun, and not vice versa, they had the astronomer who published the discovery killed, thinking that people would begin to worship the sun, AGAIN.

Just do your own research. Yes, Catholics are Christians, major Christians, and the Vatican holds secrets that would change everything we know about religion. Get real, folks.



ETA: Well shoot, they removed my vid. Anyway, follow the link to youtube and watch it. Also, there are many others. You might find them interesting.

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

I am Catholic/Christian & I don't see this subject black & white. I would say many CHRISTIANS do not delve past that which is presented them.

What I find fasincating & what I think is part of the beauty of faith & also faith of origin, is that I do think we are formed by this history, like it or not, & in any society structure one has good & evil, also the point of Christianity, JESUS/ GOD Came To Save the world, by HIS LOVE. God Is Love. God Is Light & Love. SO as a Christian/Believer in GOD, Love, there are always polarities & the choice of who & what to follow is ours (free will also Christian).

Originally posted by doctornamtab
So say you're a Catholic. We all KNOW theres a secret Vatican library.

Why would you believe in a religion that keeps secrets from you? This is something I just dont understand. A lot of us are on ATS to uncover secrets, we abhor secrets. Secrets create hierarchy, control and power struggles. Doesn't sound like the teachings of Jesus to me.

Any help on how Catholics reconcile their faith in people who withhold VERY IMPORTANT information that may go back to the dawn of civilization would be appreciated.

Not a troll post. Just dont get it.

edit on 24-6-2011 by doctornamtab because: changed Christians to Catholics...my bad

Welcome to the world and its workings.....

Didn't you know that the C.church brainwash their flock from young age with the first commenment to obey the church and that the church is always right..?

Maybe one miraculous day will come which will disclose all the secrets that are kept by the state and church.

The way the pope is worshipped,if he walked out to any group,anywhere,and said"drop trou and pee,right here" every single one of them would follow without hesitation...that sort of power in a single human is scary in itself..couple that ith unlimited money and you get what you have.....millions of mind controlled slaves willing to do anything that human says.....

Catholics are the remnants of thr Holy Roman Empire....they bite

reply to post by illuminatiDpress


Well said

Once again we hear stories of books being omitted from the Bible because it may harm this one and that one. This tells me that the Bible cannot be the word of God but the workings of Man. If 12 Disciples and Jesus each wrote a book during their wanderings throughout the world,why are they not in there? When does a geography book or History book or even autobiography book become the word of God?

Do some of these books like the Book of Enoch, contain references to alien or flesh and blood gods and that is the reason the church is open to the fact that aliens exist?

Did Mary write about her husband Jesus and that is also hidden?

Was this rebel and his band of merry men not who the bible portrays them to be?

Originally posted by doctornamtab
But why wouldnt you care? Can you elaborate why its unimportant that your faith hides important information from you?

I think plenty Catholics care but don't know what to do. Kinda like when we hear of all the secrets the government has hidden away from us lowly citizens... It boils down to, "What can we do?". So why don't you come with some answers, or at the very least tell us how you would handle the situation with the "secret" library. (I'd also change the wording. If *everyone* knows about it, it's not secret. It's more or less forbidden.)

reply to post by doctornamtab


Another little twist on the subject.. what if.. the pope or say, some of the popes did not believe everything about the law of the church (Catholic) yet they feel called to serve, as a leader, the people. Also, a priest ie, he may take his vows then as a priest he has some different views but remains as a priest, serving God, as a leader/servant, believer in JESUS.

Part of maturing is to accept the fact others do not believe just as we do, it doesn't mean we have to thumb our noses at them or walk the other way, necessarily. I guess what life has shown me thusfar is that there is my will & God's Will, the order is in some ways fate, history, that which is, I can mentally as God Is Light & Love, remove from my carnal nature that which does not make sense & focus on the etheral/eternal, that which is TRUE. My truth & reality is not another's just the same, but of which God Made me. If I am aligned with HIM, JESUS, & Love, it's ok for infallibility, secrets if they want them, because I know that God Is All & God Is Love & it does not threaten me any longer. I try to think too that if God Loves us all, & I want to be like Jesus in my nature (emulate) then I must also see there is good & evil forces, there is truth & LIGHT.

So I daily put on the armor of God & believe that soon He Will Return & expose the false, The Harvest of souls, to a place much different than here/now, "a new heaven & new earth." AMEN!

the cathloic church is the Beast of Revelation and this whole pope thing will be revealed as such soon

If catholics can look past the obvious and abhorrent pedophilia that goes on with the catholic church, why wouldn't they mind a few hidden books. Its not like they're thinking for themselves to begin with.

Originally posted by lifecitizen
And I seriously beg to differ- touch the Pope and it's like you guys have touched god. lol.

The problem may be that you see an organized religion with a single authority. The Protestant religion is also rife with similar problems. In this past year there's been at least two prominent Protestant leaders (from different denominations, and from where I sit they are "popes" of their own denomination) involved in scandals involving homosexuality and extramarital affairs.

Sects have also covered abuse by moving ministers to different locations. The difference is that the Catholic church has one leader and is held accountable. Ted Haggard's own church held him accountable for his actions (which would be similar to a parish punishing a priest) but nobody is blaming the Association of Life-Giving Churches (the larger foundation under which Ted's church was formed OR the leadership of the National Association of Evangelicals (which would sort of be like the Catholic Church) for all the abuses committed by their ministers.

And there are quite a few.

Maybe our understanding of the word 'worship' is different because from where I stand- the Pope is worshipped.

The words 'worship' and 'venerate' are very different. For example, the Chinese worshipped the gods but venerated their own ancestors and their elders. People who are venerated aren't viewed as deities. They don't have the same power and authority as a deity.