Secret Vatican Library...How can Catholics put up with this?

Originally posted by Atlantien
reply to post by Jordan River

 

A glorified history book edited by man and calling it the word of God.

Thats exactly right. How some fools cannot see this is beyond me...

Silly adult fools.

the Catholic bible does have more books than the Protestant bible.

go to any christian book store and pick one up, the Catholic bibles all contain The Apocrypha.

Protestant bibles such as King James version do not contain The Apocrypha as protestants do not believe the apocrypha is inspired word of god.


en.wikipedia.org...

the apocrypha normally is located BETWEEN the old testament and the new testament. You can purchase seperate apocrypha's at christian book stores such as The Potter's House around the country.

I actually bought one myself online as I was curious what else The Apocrypha contained, and it has some really interesting stories. Now inspired gospel or not, it is an interesting collection of books that the Catholic bible has that the Protestant bible does not.

There are also christian books that neither bible contains. Look up Book of Enoch, Book of James, those 2 were left out of the bible.

The book of Enoch is what helped Dante base his famous epic poem Dante's Inferno on. Since the book of Enoch explains the hierarchy of the angels and the demons.



The Book of Enoch is a great read for believers and non believers alike. If you are a fan of Dante's Inferno and want to read the some of the source material used then definitely pick it up.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Are you referring to the Vatican Secret Archives?

They have been open to researchers for over 130 years. More than a thousand scholars go through it every year.

Doesn't seem so nefarious to me, but I guess I'm one of those 'deluded Catholics'.

Eric

Originally posted by Atlantien
I had heard that the Vatican had a Bible with 6 more books in it as opposed to the Bible that the rest of the world has. Now if this is true, what is in these books and why are they hidden from the followers of the church?

Wow. Ok.

1) The deutercannonical books are considered to be part of the Bible by Catholics (all) and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

2) They were part of the Septuagint and had been part of the Bible (arguably) since it was first organized into a cohesive whole.

3) Although Luther included them in his first German translation of the Bible, he removed them later to (in part) support his belief if sola fide.

The Catholic Church did not add to the Bible. That is either a mistaken belief by those not familiar with it's background or a deliberate canard by anti-Catholic websites.

Eric

Originally posted by tom.farnhill
it is said that there are many different versions of the stories that make up the bible .
therefore the vatican has cherry picked the ones that suits their agenda ,
you will never see or hear of any the stories that contradict or challenge their version.

For next to 2000 years?

The books of the Bible and it's translations today are amazingly close to extant samples that have been found periodically, such as in Qumran. If what you are suggesting is true, this conspiracy would have had to been in place at a time very close to the death of Christ.

Eric

Originally posted by Atlantien
If the Bible is the word of God, is it only sections of the Bible or the whole Bible? If it is the whole Bible then why are there books left out and who gave permission for them to be left out or did someone on earth deem themselves above God himself to EDIT the Bible?

Are you referring to Martin Luther when mentioning editing the Bible?

Eric

Originally posted by Char-Lee
it has made them rich and powerful perpetuating lies I have known Catholics from many countries, did you know they are taught not to even read the bible themseves but to let their "Father" interpret it for them and not ask questions.

My choices here are to believe that you are either so tied to anti-Catholic beliefs that you actually believe this or you are lying.

Let me clear this up for you. You are completely wrong.

Not only are Catholics encouraged to read the Bible, they are often given one (by the Church!) during their First Holy Communion or their Confirmation. They are told to study Scripture from the pulpit. They are directed to read the Bible from the Vatican. Pope Benedict led a highly publicized 7 days of non-stop public reading of the Bible in 2008.

As a matter of fact, if you attend Mass once a week for one year, you will have the entirety of the Bible read to you from the Pulpit.

Eric

Originally posted by lifecitizen
Above and beyond that how do Catholics justify their leader covering up sex abuse>?

By adhering to that religion, they are condoning the abuse.

I am also perplexed by women that are Catholic and worship the misogynist leader- they have no say at all in their church besides- tea and biscuits anyone?

The sex abuse scandal is heinous and a huge topic deserving of it's own thread.

Unless you are referring to Jesus as the 'misogynist leader' you are seriously off base. Catholic's don't worship the Pope. He's another sinner like the rest of us.

Eric

reply to post by doctornamtab


If there is a secret library the reason why it is kept secret probably has to do with the Catholic faith, and I'm sure much of the scriptures, the books go against the Trinitarian belief. The early Christians believed in one GOD, and not one GOD in three different bodies, or 3 GODS in one. Most still don't get it, but we all seen evidence of scriptures which states Jesus was a prophet rather than one form of GOD, or the son of GOD.

I remember reading about a council (council of Nicea, can't spell it sorry), which was the official transformation of Christianity to the Trinitarianism.

Originally posted by LargeFries

I was well into my late 40's before I had my eyes opened about a lot of things. Amongst them was Vatican City, the momentous wealth stored there, and the Library.

I thought about the many times I saw Catholic Churchs having to scramble to come up with money for necessary maintenance, repairs or emergency situations. Of brothers and sisters homeless and hungry. The cruelty and injustices meted out by the oppressive governments of the world. All this and more, while The Vatican sits upon wealth and influence like an insane greedy Scrooge McDuck, content to count his gold coins all day long.

Well, I've never prayed to The Vatican. Nor are they my savior. Religion is a very personal and private thing. It's a personal choice whether or not one goes to Church or donates money.

Let's get right to the crux of the matter, shall we?

You seem to be throwing around this concept of an insanely wealthy (and greedy) Vatican like a bludgeon to attack the credibility of the Church. Ok, so lets look at that.

How much wealth does the Vatican have? How much does it take in each year? What are it's expenses? How much of it's money is spent on hospices, schools, orphanages and hospitals?

As you are engaging in such hyperbole about the Vatican's wealth, I'm sure that you have the answers to these questions at your fingertips. I mean, you wouldn't make claims like this if you didn't, right?

BTW, it's nice to hear that you don't pray to the Vatican and that you don't consider it to be your savior. Neither do any Catholics.

Eric

Originally posted by sconaway66
reply to post by fooks

 

And this Irish Catholic man will not hesitate to take up arms against those that disrespect my faith.

Ummmmm, I'm not sure that taking up arms against people that disrespect your faith is what Christ would want.

You might want to talk that over with your confessor.

Eric

catholics with their pope are exactly like tobambi koolaid drinkers slavishly following their leader...doesnt matter what they do,their slaves with allow them the folly.....they just ignore whatever it is as a divine right

Originally posted by kalunom
I'm no Catholic, and would very much like to gain access to that library

So exactly what steps have you taken to get permission to access it? What languages do you read?
Whom have you approached to get access?

Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by LargeFries

I was well into my late 40's before I had my eyes opened about a lot of things. Amongst them was Vatican City, the momentous wealth stored there, and the Library.

I thought about the many times I saw Catholic Churchs having to scramble to come up with money for necessary maintenance, repairs or emergency situations. Of brothers and sisters homeless and hungry. The cruelty and injustices meted out by the oppressive governments of the world. All this and more, while The Vatican sits upon wealth and influence like an insane greedy Scrooge McDuck, content to count his gold coins all day long.

Well, I've never prayed to The Vatican. Nor are they my savior. Religion is a very personal and private thing. It's a personal choice whether or not one goes to Church or donates money.

Let's get right to the crux of the matter, shall we?

You seem to be throwing around this concept of an insanely wealthy (and greedy) Vatican like a bludgeon to attack the credibility of the Church. Ok, so lets look at that.

How much wealth does the Vatican have? How much does it take in each year? What are it's expenses? How much of it's money is spent on hospices, schools, orphanages and hospitals?

As you are engaging in such hyperbole about the Vatican's wealth, I'm sure that you have the answers to these questions at your fingertips. I mean, you wouldn't make claims like this if you didn't, right?

BTW, it's nice to hear that you don't pray to the Vatican and that you don't consider it to be your savior. Neither do any Catholics.

Eric

Golly Eric I didn't mean to step on your field of expertise toes. I'll just hop on Google where surely the Accounting Ledgers of one of the largest religions of the world are wide open for all to see. I didn't claim to have first-hand knowledge. I can use common sense to draw conclusions. I stated my opinion.

But I can find many pictures on Google that show pictures of artwork, sculpture, etcetera which Vatican City holds, many items considered priceless. On the market sure to bring in a dollar or two. I've never seen a photo-image having to do with The Vatican or Vatican City that suggested poverty. Far from it.

And one doesn't have to be a genius like yourself to realize the vast quantity of Churchs there are just in the state you live in by pondering how many you have seen during your travels. Each has praise & worship, maybe 2 on Sunday, some will have 1 on Saturday and 1 on Wednesday. In my youth at a Roman Catholic Church there would be several donation collections during each Mass. In addition, there are contribution boxes for anonymous donations. And many of the faithful send in their tithe via mail.

Lots of Churchs. Even more parishioners. A nice chunk of the collection plate gets kicked upstairs. this takes place on a regular basis. Not only in every state of America but in every country around the globe where governments permit citizens to worship freely.

The amount of cash that flows to The Vatican on a monthly basis is obviously staggering. Someone as brilliant as yourself can grasp this simple deduction.

Being based on the word of God and the teachings of Jesus Christ it seems The Vatican as the representing body of The Roman Catholic Church would place good acts of kindness and charity first and foremost. The Pope sitting upon the same humble chair as you or I? Yes, he should. Because that gaudy Throne would bring in huge dollars from a private collector or museum. Money that should be going to feed the poor and house the homeless.

In 1994, for the first time in its history, the Vatican Bank was audited by an outside element - Price Waterhouse (currently Price Waterhouse Coopers). In that year, the bank had deposits of $40 billion, and annual profits of $4 million. After an interview with the head of the bank it was noted that "it is unclear how much working capital the bank has beyond its deposits", and that some estimated it as high as $1 billion.

In an interview published in Money Week, Cardinal Edmund C. Szoka, the Vatican's "finance minister", claims that The Vatican's assets are $5 billion. Five Billion Dollars.

I've done more research than you have for your friendly post. Feel free to look up the rest yourself.

reply to post by doctornamtab


"Just don't get it." Relax, neither does anybody.

Now as a former Catholic I'll answer you. You've heard the adage "knowledge is power", that's what's at play here. Likely 99.9% of Catholics have no clue as to what is in the library. Very close to that same high percentage don't know there is a library. It's just not relevant to them, most are not ambitious conspiracy hounds. The Catholic indoctrination works against that. "Honor thy father and thy mother." This equates in most Catholic lives to my parents were Catholics and so I will be. It promotes blind faith. I for one accepted that generations of wiser people than I asked and answered the questions of life sufficiently, long before I was born and so you move on to questions you can obtain more concrete answers to.

Consider all of the intelligent people that are and were Catholics. JFK always comes immediately to mind. He was outwardly a Catholic as was/is his family. Yet, if you examine their lives and actions closely and honestly, you find that there was/is a pretense of being Catholic and humble before God. It throws people off their trail. They are about "knowledge is power" as much as the Church. They know the keys to baffling and controlling people. No one questions their political intents thinking they are guided by conscience. If you've been around ATS for any length of time you know the Kennedy clan is included in the Illuminati families. I don't want to get too far off from your initial question and so here is one quote from JFK that is very revealing.

All of us have in our veins the exact same percentage of salt in our blood that exists in the ocean, and, therefore, we have salt in our blood, in our sweat, in our tears. We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea -- whether it is to sail or to watch it -- we are going back from whence we came.

Nothing glaring there, you must examine his words closely. These are not the words of a creationist, these are the words of a man of science and they very much go against one of the most basic Christian tenants. God created the world, God created man. When you look at the now public details of his life you realize this was not a man guided by a conscience formed by a love for others and a fear of sinning. That he did good in his life is undermined by the harm he caused himself and the people closest and seemingly the dearest to him. "What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?" We can see this conflict in the lives of many prominent Catholics. It's not because they are human and weak, it is because they are intelligent and wily. Much like those at the top of the Catholic pyramid. These people have a clue as to what is in the Vatican library.

JFK and the Kennedys counted on the fact that public acts of humbleness before God and man would win them support and votes. It did and still does. A great many people still believe in God and Jesus and thus others that seemingly believe in God and Jesus. That is what I believe is the most prominent of secrets in the Vatican Library. In that secret library, among all the ancient knowledge that was stolen and hidden away from the world, is proof that Jesus was a myth created by the Roman Empire to undermine the Jews and subjugate the peoples the empire conquered. By this they were able to control the conquered peoples by leaving behind churches, cathedrals and priests rather than an occupying force. It goes on still. "Knowledge is power" and so keep the knowledge in the hands of the few.

I might not be correct, there is no way of telling. My theory makes sense to me and it will continue to guide my life until I'm proven wrong.

Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s

Only a Roman could have thought and written such a thing. The Caesars considered themselves living gods. Reading that passage with that knowledge, I realize that people believing this were in actuality giving everything, their earthly riches and their souls if such exist, to Caesar. The Roman Catholic Church is the outward evidence of the still existent Roman Empire.

There's much more historical evidence as to how the Roman Church hid the knowledge and kept the people subjugated. The "Latin Mass" and so much more. It's there for you to research.

Just one man's opinion.

Originally posted by Soldier of God
The vatican means nothing to me as a Christian... ask Catholics.

The Bible was not something peasants could read. It was written in Latin so even that book was a secret.
The Vatican holds more secrets than a Mason lodge and in fact I think they are the same secrets from the same original source... only taken down different chosen paths. There are even some mysterious bones buried under the Vatican almost as if they are being either hidden or held down.

People put up with it because we have no choice. The US has secrets, we can't leave it. This is our country and same I suppose with Catholics, this is our religion and we are stuck with it. I think it is cool they have some secrets.

It is never the religion you are believing in anyway.
The priests were the worst offenders even in biblical times. It the creator. Source.
Home that you are believing in. A familiar place. A gut instinct. A rekindled memory.
Religion is just a guideline comprehensive because it imparts an idea, a theory for life. If you believe it promises some connectivity and inclusion in a circle that includes the source of it all. Naturally when you are dealing with something that exclusive the people immediately surrounding it (then as now) are bound to try and either capitalize on it, keep it to themselves or both.
Catholics put up with it because we know that behind those crooks and liars is a benevolent God, accessed through faith.
We also know ALL religions are unnecessary if you believe and love God. Religions breed corruption as they are human endeavors. Religious connection with maker is personal. An affair with God. It doesn't matter about the books although they are secrets we would like to have....in time we know we will.

And of course I can't speak for all Catholics, in fact I can't speak for any of them but, I know a few and can tell you this is how a few of us feel.

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Soldier of God
The vatican means nothing to me as a Christian... ask Catholics.

The Bible was not something peasants could read. It was written in Latin so even that book was a secret.

No it was not actually
www.biblica.com...
"Almost the entire Old Testament was written in Hebrew during the thousand years of its composition. But a few chapters in the prophecies of Ezra and Daniel and one verse in Jeremiah were written in a language called Aramaic. "

"The New Testament, however, was written in Greek. "

reply to post by spoor


I believe the program Secrets of the Bible on the History Channel mentioned this too and I think that was a pretty good source and interesting program. You never know who writes material for some of these religious sites but the program was pretty well researched. According to the preamble up until relatively recent times all Bible translations, (originally taken from the Greek) were written in Latin and so the common man still could not read it...but thanks for the link.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by spoor

 

I believe the program Secrets of the Bible on the History Channel and think that was a pretty good source.

That states it was in Hebrew and Greek....

All large organistaions have their secrets. I'm not sure but I think that may be changing. It seems to have been an acceptable practice over the last century but people will not tolerate this anymore. Secrets are being revealed on a weekly basis. If not voluntarily its been forced. Every part of society is having its secrets revealed. We have already had massive revalations from the catholic church over the last decade or more and I am sure there will be more to follow.

Catholics get to confess their sins in secret on a weekly basis. They receive absolution for any wrongs they have committed. This is all done in secret. They can then attend mass and take part in a ceremony where they eat the body of christ and drink his blood. If they truly belive in transubstantiation they are drinking the blood and eating the body of a human.

Cannabilism anyone?