99% Undeniable Conclusive Evidence That 9/11 Was An Inside Job

Originally posted by TupacShakur
I'm majoring in Physics and Astronomy, I know a hell of a lot more about physics than you buddy.

And yet you can't answer my question.

I proved it to you on page 23.

No you didn't.

4 images of molten steel. One video of it dripping from the tower. Several witnesses involved in the clean-up proccess claimed to have seen molten steel.

4 images of molten metal. One video of molten metal dripping from the tower. Witnesses who you don't trust when they say things you don't like, and whose expertise is questionable anyway.

You failed to respond to my post on page 23 after I clearly proved its existence to you, so I'll ask the same question again that you ignored:

How about those numerous witness testimonies? Still doesn't prove it to you? So there is video evidence of molten metal dripping from the tower prior to its collapse, photographic evidence of molten metal within the debris, and numerous witness testimonies claiming to have seen molten metal, but you're not convinced? If videos, photos, and witnesses aren't enough then what would prove it to you? Do want me to build a time machine, take you back in time, and show it to you and throw you in it to verify the intense heat?

I didn't ignore this. I specifically answered it. Here's what I wrote:

"What are you talking about? Obviously there was molten metal at the WTC. Try to read my last post - this is not even a subject for debate.

What remains unproven is that this metal is steel. So I suppose we're still waiting for your "proof" of molten steel."

You claim that you've proved the existence of molten steel, and then write a post where you don't even use the word steel. You then claim that this is your proof! It's hard to take you seriously.

I have to ask, why do you ignore the evidence? Why did you not respond to the very post that proved you wrong? You asked for evidence and denied the existence of it, so I showed you the evidence that you requested and proved the existence of it. Did you think that if you just didn't respond after reading it, viewing the pictures, and listening to the witnesses, that *POOF*, the evidence would vanish?

This is a bit embarrassing for you, isn't it? Should have checked a bit more carefully...

I've shown you specifically this evidence multiple times throughout this thread, and denying it's existence is just the highest form of ignorance, delusion, and denial.

Well done. Slow handclap. You've proved there was some molten metal at the WTC.

EVERYTHING that you are making your foundation on of mis-information can all be disputed by the video posts on Post 25, everything you are talking about now.

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Dude seriously stop beating around the bush. Why dont you explain to all of us in a short summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes. HOW!

Originally posted by dilly1
reply to post by TrickoftheShade

 

Dude seriously stop beating around the bush. Why dont you explain to all of us in a short summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes. HOW!

Sure - just tell us when that happened!

reply to post by TrickoftheShade


Dude seriously stop beating around the bush. Why dont you explain to all of us in a short summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes. HOW!

reply to post by hooper


it happened on 911. your turn. waiting on you summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes

I can't even find my original post about the explosive properties of Aluminum. Probably because the 9/11 truthers don't seem to be looking for the truth, rather trying to prove their side is right. Two sides each attempting to prove a point will not lead to a scientific unbiased conclusion.

1-The molten metal has been identified as aluminum.
2-There was about 10,000 kg of molten aluminum potentially released, and no that is not all of the aluminum that was present.

3-Liquid water trapped under molten aluminum causes a steam explosion. This explosion causes the liquid water to expand in volume 1700 while trapped under metal.

4-All that's required for a thermite reaction is Aluminum and rust. Adding to the potential is gypsum and concrete... All of which were present and crushed for increased reactivity. ''

5-So imagine liquid water gets trapped under molten aluminum that is dripping down the building the molten aluminum on the bottom hardens and turns the liquid water to vapor. It expands 1700 times and causes a huge explosion spreading the molten aluminum that hasn't been cooled all over the building. It hit's rusty steel beams, crushed concrete, gypsum and more water from the sprinklers... More steam explosions more thermite reactions....

6-There was probably about 10k kg of molten aluminum... An aluminum thermite style explosion exceeds the explosive potential of TNT. 22,000 lbs of an explosive with a bigger bang than tnt. Fat man that was dumped on Nagasaki was 21 kilotons....

7-In aluminum foundries when molten aluminum hits the concrete floor they run because of it's explosive potential. Crushed concrete is more reactive. Jet hits high rise, lots of crushed concrete and gypsum fire proofing.

8-TNT is Aluminum powder and ferric oxide powder. Rust.

I'm not saying that is what happened because at this point nobody here knows with absolute certainty what happened. But come on, ignoring the explosive potential of a couple hundred tons of aluminum so you can try to make your point is silly. You don't want the truth, you want so badly to be correct it's clouding your judgement.

And just for Reference the particular Aluminum alloys present go molten between 550-650 degrees Celsius. When the thermite reaction occurs the temperature instantly goes up ANOTHER 1500 degrees Celsius. 3800 degrees Celsius is your potential temperature and that material get's blown all through the buildings.

You can't prove what the gov knew or didn't. What can be established is a reasonable scientific explanation that can explain the explosions, the molten metal, how the fire moved, etc....

And I don't think most of these guys understand anything about tempered steel. It's heated then cooled rapidly by quenching it in oil. It increases the strength by about 10x. Safety standard in the US require steel be insulated so it doesn't reach 1000 degrees in under 2 hours. Why? Because tempered steel is brittle and a relatively low temperature(relative to it's melting point takes the temper out). It doesn't just lose strength when it starts to melt, if that were the case there would be no safety regulations regarding the heating of it until it reaches 2500 degrees, What happens when it loses the temper? The Brittle steel snaps in sharp breaks. Just for reference thermite actually melts steel so it wouldn't result in a sharp break. Once the tempered steel loses the extra strength it wont bend and warp it will break like glass.

Quit looking at the conspiracy portion that you already have a predisposition for. Look at some readily information available about the aluminum and what happens to tempered steel at a relatively low heat. Don't look at your 9/11 truther pseudo scientists look at pre9/11 information. Just because you don't understand something or aren't educated on the particulars doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. And just because there is a reasonable scientific explanation doesn't mean there wasn't a conspiracy either. But the sad thing is every truther who says that it couldn't have occurred in the manner I discussed is wrong.

reply to post by hooper


it happened on 911. your turn. waiting on you summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes

Ok, I can believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but what I don't understand is motivation. Its not everyday the government says, lets kill thousands of our own people cause paperwork is boring! There's got to be a reason for such an elaborate scheme. Oil is the reason, right? But how? We invade the middle east, sure... But how does that make bush or who ever richer? Does he own foreign oil now? If someone would clear this up for me so I can fully understand the point. Please and Thankyou. (BTW: If this is a stupid question sorry my bad, but I have been researching and so far nothing has come up.) *Don't hate on the newbie!

Someone asked how the steel and concrete could disintegrate. Tempered steel lawn mower blades. Familiar with them? They will shatter and disintegrate under the right set of circumstances.

So did it break apart. Well, the steel is explained, how it became brittle. The impact falling from that height with the additional weight on top of it would fragment much of it into small pieces. Much of the concrete can be explained the same way. Not to mention the various steam explosions from the water becoming trapped under molten metal. And if you watch controlled demolitions much of the concrete is destroyed in the fall.

Originally posted by Subbam
Dave, like I said earlier, watch the movies on post 25 that I put up. Like I said in the other post to the other fellow, I'd be happy to answer any of the questions that you may have following you watching them. Never settle for what anybody tells yourself, you have your own mind, do your own thinking and your own reasearch and you can there for make a clear conclusion and as I said, never settle for any other persons conclusions, they'll lead you in false directions

So let me get this straight...you want me to pretend that there weren't any hijackings, that the planes never hit the towers, that the towers weren't full of people, that the towers didn't begin falling at the precise point of impact of the planes, that the WTC wasn't bombed back in 1993, that the NYPA didn't have any bomb dogs (and likewise pretend that Sirius didn't get killed in the attack), all of that, entirely because you think I should instead believe what Martin Sheen and Rosie O'Donnell think. Is that really what you're claiming? I mean, really?

Unless you likewise believe all the world's emotional problems are being caused by the ghosts of space aliens murdered by Xenu the galactic warlord because Tom Cruise and John Travolta believe it, I shouldn't need to point out your monstrously bad logic. Rosie O'Donnell likewise claimed that all gun owners should have their guns taken away and be thrown in jail, and I haven't taken a word of anything that idiot has said seriously since.

Originally posted by dilly1
reply to post by hooper

 

it happened on 911. your turn. waiting on you summary on how you think the 2million tons of steel and concrete disintegrated right before all our eyes

Really? You need an explanation as to why when a building collapses on itself some of the parts may come loose? Have you no real life experience?

reply to post by DrJay1975


1. Who told you the molten metal was aluminum. ?
2. Where did 10k aluminum come from?
3. Where did you here there was liquid water trapped. And the person that told you how did they know?
4. Where did the rust come from? From the steel? I'm pretty sure the steel didn't have the correct amount of rust that you need for your THEORY .
5. Sprinklers? Where below or above the impacted floor. How do you know they were all working properly ..You said below right . And you say IMAGINE , as if you were their. You sound like a movie director.
6. Again where in gods name do here there was 10k kg of molten aluminum.?

7. Let's just say all these explosions did happen ,up on the high impacted floors. Explain the explosion down below where the foundation (the strongest part of the tower). Were they echoes from the explosions above, caused by your impossible chemical explosions.

8. Again with the rust. Where is the rust from. Please provide proof of this rust, your so sure about.

-you are saying this is what happened without displaying a single drop of proof.

-so basically your saying a "natural" chemical occurrence like the chemical properties for thermite existed in the impacted floors and that is what cause all three building to go down. Cause you don't mention anything about building 7.


You have issues

reply to post by dilly1


What an intelligent comment you make. That's impressive. Typical though. Science answered with"You have issues.".

reply to post by hooper


I dont need anything. you on the other hand cant explain your point. you cant give me a how or why. you have nothing. ,,,but its all good ,you think whatever you want. if it makes you happy accept what has been fed to you in the past ,present and future. enjoy

reply to post by DrJay1975


Thats it ?????????? 4 small sentences???????? i ask you 8 questions and you focus on the last three words. lets pretend i didnt say that tiny phrase . how would you answer my last post? jesus!

reply to post by DrJay1975


your weird science explosions do not answer the disintegration of the foundation... and how about building 7 genius. can your science experiments explain that? didnt think so

Originally posted by dilly1
reply to post by DrJay1975

 

1. Who told you the molten metal was aluminum. ? Being as the only metal present is suffient quantities to create a molten metal at the temperatures indicated was aluminum, it makes sense. The NIST report identifies it as molten aluminum. NIST: Progress Report on the Federal Building and Fire Safety Investigation of the
World Trade Center Disaster, Volume 4, Appendix H, Section H.9, page 43:
“Starting around 9:52 a.m., a molten material began to pour from the
top of window 80-256 on the north face of WTC 2. The material appears
intermittently until the tower collapses at 9:58:59 a.m. The observation
of piles of debris in this area combined with the melting point behaviors of
the primary alloys used in a Boeing 767 suggest that the material is molten
aluminum derived from aircraft debris located on floor 81.”


2. Where did 10k aluminum come from? By far the largest source of aluminum at the WTC was the exterior cladding
on WTC 1 & 2. In quantitative terms it may be estimated that 2,000,000 kg of
anodized 0.09 aluminum sheet was used, in the form of 43,600 panels, to
cover the facade of each Twin Tower. The other major source of aluminum at the WTC was the aluminum alloy
airframes of the Boeing 767 aircraft that crashed into the Twin Towers on the
morning of 9-11. It may be estimated that, on impact, these aircraft weighed
about 124,000 kg including fuel; of this weight, 46,000 kg comprised the
fuselage and 21,000 kg made up the mass of the wings – all of which were
fabricated from aluminum alloys. Modern airframes are invariably constructed
from series 2000 aluminum alloys. Alloy 2024 is a typical example containing
93 % Al, 4.5 % Cu, 1.5 % Mg, and 0.5 % each of Mn and Fe. These metallic
additions to aluminum lower the melting point of the alloy from a value of
660 C, for pure aluminum, to about 548  C for alloy 2024. This relatively
low temperature indicates that the fires within the Twin Towers were quite
capable of melting at least some of the Boeing 767 aluminum airframe
structures remaining in the WTC before its collapse.


3. Where did you here there was liquid water trapped. And the person that told you how did they know? Well I conclude water was present because I'm not an idiot. Water:
The Boeing 767 aircraft impacts caused major structural damage over several floors in
each Tower. Sprinkler systems were installed in the Twin Towers but apparently failed to
operate during the catastrophic events of 9-11. Certainly, however, many plumbing
fixtures near the aircraft impact zones would have ruptured and spilled water, especially
in washrooms and kitchenettes, but also in office areas where water coolers, coffee
makers and drink vending machines would have broken and spilled their contents.

4. Where did the rust come from? From the steel? I'm pretty sure the steel didn't have the correct amount of rust that you need for your THEORY . Rust, which is essentially a mixture of ferric oxides and hydroxides, readily forms on iron
or low alloy steels exposed to moist air at ambient temperatures. Post 9-11 photographs
of the WTC at ground zero show many rusted steel members in the rubble piles. The iron
oxide film thickness measured on selected samples by NIST and FEMA investigators was
consistent with the expected level of corrosion of carbon steel after 30 years exposure to
the urban/maritime environment of NYC. There isn't a particular amount of rust required for my theory. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't right. I simply stated what the composition of traditional thermite mixtures is.

5. Sprinklers? Where below or above the impacted floor. How do you know they were all working properly ..You said below right . And you say IMAGINE , as if you were their. You sound like a movie director. YOu aren't that bright. A plane hits a building and no plumbing that connects to the sprinklers ruptures? No plumbing to the bathrooms? Drink Machines? Water Coolers?

6. Again where in gods name do here there was 10k kg of molten aluminum.? Well being as there was 2 million kg of aluminum present on the building and another 120,000 pounds on the jets.... Being as it was the only metal in the building capable of becoming molten at the temperatures inside the WTC.... However, from the different trajectories of
the aircraft strikes on WTC 1 & 2, it appears that the fuselage of the aircraft that struck
WTC 2 came to rest closer to an exterior wall than the aircraft that struck WTC 1 which
stopped deep inside this building. NIST report that the fires in WTC 2 were less active
than those observed in WTC 1. In addition, the maximum temperature reached inside the
Towers was probably higher for WTC 1 than for WTC 2 because Tower 1 burned for 102
minutes compared to 56 minutes for WTC 2. Given these facts, it is probable that molten
aluminum was produced in both Towers, but was only observed at one location, namely
spilling out of a broken window in WTC 2. It is obviously very difficult to estimate how
much molten aluminum was produced in either of the Twin Towers during 9-11.
However, from the temperature and heat flux estimates reported by NIST, and the mass
of aluminum exposed, it is probable that as much as 10,000 kg of molten aluminum
formed in each Tower.



7. Let's just say all these explosions did happen ,up on the high impacted floors. Explain the explosion down below where the foundation (the strongest part of the tower). Were they echoes from the explosions above, caused by your impossible chemical explosions. If you think the explosions are impossible you aren't too sharp. Being as we can be sure that water and molten metal will work their way down.... Molten Aluminum landing on water(steam explosions) or the molten Al landing on the crushed concrete(lime), rust from the brittle beams, gypsum from the fireproofing, all of which are crushed and reactive.... YOu get an explosion that is greater than the same amount of tnt(aluminum amount).

8. Again with the rust. Where is the rust from. Please provide proof of this rust, your so sure about. ANswered above. If you think there is no rust on millions of tons of steel near the water after 30 years, there is no helping you.

-you are saying this is what happened without displaying a single drop of proof. Actually no I didn't. Reading isn't your forte is it? I said it's possible. I'll go as so far as to say it's even likely. If you'd get away from the 911 websites and just research the science of it, you'd know it was at the very least possible and very plausible. But judging from your comments you haven't done that nor will. Proof.

-so basically your saying a "natural" chemical occurrence like the chemical properties for thermite existed in the impacted floors and that is what cause all three building to go down. Cause you don't mention anything about building 7. The idea that molten aluminum-thermite reactions may have been involved in the
collapse of the Twin Towers is not new. It was first proposed by S. Ashley in an October
2001 article published in Scientific American. Ashley noted that the aviation fuel fires in
the Twin Towers burned sufficiently hot to melt and even ignite the airliners' aluminum
airframe structures. Aluminum, could then have added to the conflagrations. Hot molten
aluminum could have seeped down into the floor systems, doing significant damage.
Aluminum melts into burning 'goblet puddles' that would pool around depressions, such
as beam joints, service openings in the floor, stairwells and so forth. The goblets are
white hot, burning at an estimated 1800 degrees Celsius. At this temperature, the water of
hydration in the concrete is vaporized and consumed by the aluminum. This evolves
hydrogen gas that burns. Aluminum burning in concrete produces a calcium oxide/silicate
slag covered by a white aluminum oxide ash, all of which serve to insulate and contain
the aluminum puddle. This keeps the metal hot and burning.
The propensity of molten aluminum to react violently with common
structural materials not only supports, but extends the above scenario. Thus, in addition to
the action of molten aluminum on concrete discussed by Ashley, we have referenced
studies showing that mixtures of water, gypsum and rust are also capable of violent
reactions with molten aluminum. Gypsum wallboard was used throughout the Twin
Towers and was reported to have fallen off and blocked many stairwells. Rust was
present on all the structural steel. Molten aluminum reacts with these substances by
grabbing the oxygen and releasing flammable hydrogen. It may be calculated that the
energy released by the chemical conversion of the molten aluminum produced in the
Twin Towers was about 1012 Joules or comparable to the potential energy released by the
collapse of the Towers!


You have issues ---yeah but different than yours. Ignorance isn't one of mine.

astro.umsystem.edu...

Possible sequence of events

Boeing 767 aircraft separately strike WTC 1 & 2 and flaming wreckage becomes
lodged in the upper floors of each Tower.
Combustibles, such as office furniture, paper and plastic, start to burn, fuelled by at
least 10,00 liters of kerosene, and the temperature in the impact zone begins to rise.
After about 30 minutes, the fires subside, but black smoke continues to pour out of both
Towers showing that the fires are not “out”, but “smoldering”.
After about 40 minutes, parts of the airframe in WTC 2 approached the critical
temperature range of 500 - 550 C where aluminum alloys starts to soften and melt.
At 50 minutes, molten aluminum forms and starts to flow from the airframe in WTC 2.
The molten aluminum re-ignites some of the smoldering fires and rapidly burns through
other combustible materials that survived the initial conflagration. Molten aluminum also
falls onto fractured concrete, gypsum and rusted steel surfaces inducing violent thermite
explosions, dispersing globules of molten metal and igniting new fires.
The extreme heat generated by the molten aluminum rapidly weakens already damaged
steel columns and trusses in the impact zone causing local slumping and partial collapse.
The remains of the semi-molten airframe fall to the floor below and mix with fresh
combustible material, air, water, thermite reagents (crushed concrete, gypsum, rust), and
sections of aluminum cladding from the Tower’s fa€ade, initiating more explosions.
This sequence of events is now repeated in a rapidly accelerating, and increasingly
violent cascade of destruction. Gravity adds momentum to the downward acceleration of
the mass of debris and WTC 2 collapses in less than 16 seconds.
The burning aluminum remaining at the end of the collapse glows brightly for a
moment and illuminates the rising clouds of smoke and dust at ground zero.
About 25 minutes later, the temperature of the aircraft wreckage in WTC 1 reaches the
critical 500 - 550 C range where molten aluminum starts to flow. The sequence of
events observed in WTC 2 is repeated in WTC 1 and a second global collapse ensues.
The WTC rubble pile was a veritable stew of materials including body parts mixed with
pulverized concrete, gypsum, glass fiber, vermiculite, chrysotile asbestos, mineral wool
and glass as well as paper, plastic, copper wire and large sections of steel and aluminum.
Two factors should be considered in evaluating this mix of materials. First, because of the
way it was formed amid fires and explosions, the rubble pile was very hot. In fact it is
probable that some molten aluminum made its way into the rubble pile. As previously
noted, molten aluminum burning on contact with concrete produces a calcium
oxide/silicate slag covered by a white aluminum oxide ash which serves to insulate and
contain the aluminum puddle, keeping it hot and burning…..
The basement of the Twin Towers was
severely damaged on 9-11 and flooded with water from sewer lines, fresh domestic water lines, steam pipes and condensate returns. Just days after 9-11, millions of gallons of
water had already flowed into WTC basement floors and was being pumped out at a rate
of about 3,000 gallons per minute. In the days and weeks following 9-11 water was
continuously percolating through the rubble piles from firefighters’ hoses and rainfall.
Ironically, the WTC site was sprayed with water mainly to keep dust levels down during
cleanup operations, rather than extinguish fires.
The US Geological Survey has measured the properties of water exposed to WTC dust
and debris (See pubs.usgs.gov/of/2001) These so-called “WTC leach solutions” are
invariably very alkaline with pH ~ 10. Chemical analysis has shown up to 700 g/liter of
Al dissolved in the leach water. The USGS researchers concluded that: “Of all the metals
in the WTC dust, aluminum is leached in greatest amounts”.
Al + H2O + OH -> AlO2 + 3/2 H2
What is most significant about this reaction is that aluminum enters solution as the
aluminate ion, AlO2
, with the release of 3/2 moles of gaseous hydrogen. That this type of
reaction occurred in the WTC rubble pile should not be surprising since hydrogen
production reactions have been reported in similar environments involving aluminum in
contact with water and cementitious materials. Thus the Pacific Northwest National
Laboratory recently published a report entitled: “Potential for Generation of Flammable
Mixtures of Hydrogen from Aluminum-Grout Interaction in the K Basin During Basin
Grouting.”

“This evaluation was performed to assess the potential impact of imbedding
equipment and debris within a layer of grout to provide shielding and to fix
contamination. The presence of aluminum in the form of empty canisters, identification
tags or other hardware will lead to the generation of hydrogen as high pH grout contacts
and reacts with the aluminum metal.”
The authors go on to explain that hydrogen generation from grouted aluminum occurs
due to the reaction of aluminum with hydroxide ion from Ca(OH)2 present in the pore
water of the grout. Measurements at 50 C showed a maximum hydrogen gas generation
rate of about 5 cm3/min for an aluminum coupon with an area of about 20 cm2 exposed to
a saturated solution of calcium hydroxide.
Using this result and other quantitative data related to the rate of corrosion of aluminum
in alkali media at temperatures up to 100 C, it is possible to estimate that tens of
thousands of liters of hydrogen gas were released, per day, into the WTC rubble pile
immediately after 9-11. Because of the presence of hot smoldering debris and localized
fires at ground zero, this hydrogen would have burnt and contributed to the heat
generation that kept the WTC rubble pile hot and cooking for months after 9-11.

reply to post by DrJay1975


Can you explain how the foundation got disintegrated?

Just finished that post.... But the steel is brittle. Concrete will obviously shatter. So you have 2 brittle substances falling upon each other, millions of tons.... crushing itself as it lands upon more and more material... Molten aluminum-thermite explosions - reactions that are quite capable of shattering ceramic or metal molds during aluminum casting - would help to explain the much-debated pulverization of the WTC
concrete. And, remarkably, the production and combustion of hydrogen gas by reactions
of hot aluminum with high pH water at ground zero, explains why the WTC rubble pile
continued to burn for so long.

Not saying thats exactly what happened but its certainly a valid alternative to the conspiracy.

And just for reference the statement some made about disintegration isn't correct. Or not total disintegration. We salvaged and sold 185,000 tons of steel from the twins. About 80% more steel than that was salvaged and scrapped. SO over a million tons.

Most of the concrete was NOT pulverized. 600,000 tons of nonpulverized concrete was pulled out of the basement.