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Originally posted by dilly1
reply to post by GoodOlDave
Who cares how it collapsed. The point is it collapsed genius. 50 story steal structures do not collapse because of fire. Seriously why are you fighting your own brain capacity.
You obviously are so fond of your conspiracy website kool-aid that you can't reason this through on your own, so I'll explain it to you- regardless of whether you think WTC 7 collapsed from controlled demolitions, lasers from outer space, or heat beams from Martian war machines, the one thing that remains a universal fact is that you do not tamper with evidence. Even someone with the brain functions of a rock can understand that the Penthouse collapse was critically important for us to determine the reason for why the entire structure collapsed and the producer of this video tampered with the evidence by erasing the video and tried to pretend it never happened. It's exactly the same as thinking "well, who cares how many times JFK was shot at" and snipping off all the video of JFK grasping at his throat and just leaving us the image of the head shot. If anyone tried pulling that, the JFK assassination groupies would be all over them like Rosie O'Donnell on a chocolate cake.
The only unit there with fighter aircraft was 112 Air National Guard Wing
The aircraft were not fueled amd armed for combat
Speaking of tampering with evidence, care to tell me what our government did with all of the steel and rubble from the towers? Oh if only I could remember, it slipped my mind you see, if you could fill me in our what exactly they did with the steel I would be delighted.
By 2:00 a.m. on September 12, trucks began to arrive with loads of steel and solid material from Ground Zero. New York Police Department and Federal Bureau of Investigation Evidence Response Teams arrived in the early morning hours to begin the thorough inspection of the materials and take on a threefold mission: find as many human remains as possible, recover personal effects, and search for evidence from the terrorists.
Originally posted by TupacShakur
I'll ask again: Since you seem so confident that our evidence is indeed slanted, misintrepreted, or just all out lies, can you take the time to go through the 15 minute video, and debunk the assertions within it? Show us how the assertions are wrong.
Better yet it would make me the happiest truther in the world if you really committed yourself to proving us wrong by debunking every piece of evidence in the OP, but we both know you're too lazy to do that. Why show how all of our evidence is wrong like we've asked multiple times, when you can whip out a few strawmen and call it a night?
Clearly, there are burning questions that need answers. Based on the incident's magnitude alone, a full-throttle, fully resourced, forensic investigation is imperative. More important, from a moral standpoint, for the safety of present and future generations who live and work in tall buildings-and for firefighters, always first in and last out-the lessons about the buildings' design and behavior in this extraordinary event must be learned and applied in the real world.
To treat the September 11 incident any differently would be the height of stupidity and ignorance.
Originally posted by TupacShakur
I said this: Evidence of this exact thing has been presented in this thread! You're asking us to supply that which has already been supplied to you.
Page 15, post #3.
Page 14, post #16, video #2.
Evidence of molten steel has been presented to you within this thread time and time again. LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE! You're asking for evidence, and several members have supplied this evidence on many occasions yet you continue to ask for evidence.
It's indeed a strawman argument, because I asked you to address, analyze, and debunk every single assertion provided either in the OP, that video posted by Hijaqd, or those scrubby YouTube conspiracy videos, and instead of addressing my main argument and debunking one of those three things, you instead went in the direction of posting a video of WTC7s collapse. No fire on the planet has ever demolished a building in this manner, but it happened to three of them!
So it's perfectly fine for you that this guy is censoring the material in his video and cutting off parts he doesn't want you to know about? It's obvious that the WTC 7 building collapsed from the inside out with a six second delay, which proves right there that the collapse was NOT a controlled demolition. It also explains why the building collapsed the way it did- by that point it was essentially hollow so there's no longer anything inside to stop it from falling inward. No controlled demolitions on the planet has ever demolished a building in this manner so it obviously not a controlled demolition, so this guy intentionally tampered with the evidence to get you to think that it was. This can hardly be considered a strawman argument because this is all right there in the video starting on 9:27.
So despite the fact that I've followed all 20+ pages of this thread from day one and read every single post, you think that I won't read the only actual post which does the main task that I asked from the start?
It's not that I'm lazy, it's that it will take three days to debunk every little nuance it contains and I know full well that you're not going to read the novel I'd have to post. Particularly when it's clear that you don't seem to mind that the producers are erasing parts of their videos they don't want you to know about.
After reviewing all of that evidence, before you can make the claim that you still believe the official story, it's only fair that you debunk every piece of evidence presented throughout the film.
My apologies - I missed this the first time.
But actually neither post provides evidence of molten steel. Both posit the existence of molten metal - something we all agree on - and then claim to have proven the presence of molten steel. It's not at all persuasive.
1) In the 100-plus years of steel framed buildings, only three have ever collapsed due to fire. All three were leased by the same man, all three fell in the same way, all on the same day! Coincidence?
(3) Firefighters, police officers, emergency personnel, reporters, and many other eyewitnesses all reported explosions going off inside of the buildings, yet this got little attention in the mainstream media and as far as I know no mention in the 9/11 Commission Report. Coincidence
4) There are more CCTV cameras covering the Pentagon than any other building in the world, yet the government won't release a video showing a Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon. The only images released to the public did not contain any evidence of a Boeing 757. Coincidence?
5) The September 2000 document "Project for the New American Century" states that if we are going to transform America into tomorrows dominant force, it will be a long process, unless there is a catastrophic and catalyzing event like a new Pearl Harbor
Generals have always had the power to shoot down or intercept hi-jacked aircraft, but three months prior to 9/11 Dick Cheney was allowed to take control of NORAD and the shoot-down procedure, removing that power from the Generals.
There were a total of 15 exercises going on that day involving the fighter jets in the North-Eastern portion of the United States.
NORAD stood down because the terrorist attacks occuring on that day were assumed to be part of the drills that they were running. Coincidence?
Throughout the summer Silverstein reworked the insurance to make sure it covered terrorist attacks, explicitly stating that he could re-build the complex if it were destroyed.
However somehow rescue workers knew that building 7 would fall despite it's minimal damage and set up a perimeter.
One characteristic of WTC7s collapse is how the building fell in on itself rather than ourwards,
Lost in WTC7s collapse were thousands of SEC case files on corporate fraud, including those related to corporate giants Worldcom and Enron
These are the core columns of building 7 after the collapse:
Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of the Bush brothers, was the CEO of Securacom from 1999 - 2002.
Scott Forbes, an IT specialist in a firm that had leased space in the South tower since its erection, reported an unprecedented power down in his building for almost the whole weekend prior to 9/11
bomb sniffing dogs were removed from duty
while simlutaneously the attendancy of the towers began to drop
The conspiracy types believe they are hundreds of aircraft just waiting to go - sitting on runway, fully fueled and armed, engines turning & burning ready to leap into wild blue yonder
Originally posted by DrJay1975
So to summarize... The probably amount of molten aluminum was about 10,000 kg. Nagasaki was 21 kilotons. THe temp can reach 3800 F in less than a second in the Aluminum reaction thermite explosion. All that was need for the thermite reaction was Rust. Factor in gypsum, Lime and water and you get a mega series of explosions with all of the pools of molten aluminum. And before someone quotes prof Jones trying to debunk the aluminum thermite reaction, he did 2 tests and none of the materials were crushed. And it ought to be obvious that if a plane hit the building there would be crushed concrete and gypsum.
No offense but I think that is far more likely why there is molten aluminum and thermite explosions than someone wiring the place to blow. I could care less about statements about who knew this and that. But the molten metal and explosions have rational explanations. And molten aluminum hitting the steel beams pitting into it and then a reasonable thermite reaction or a steam explosion seems reasonable for explaining the supposed beam cutting.
Originally posted by TupacShakur
The WTC construction manager said this:
the building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it...I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jet-liners, because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door, this intense grid and the jet plane is just the pencil puncturing that screen netting