Why Don't You People Just Get Over It? Here's Why (PSA Viedo)

reply to post by DaddyBare

Very rarely does a thread affect me the way this one did, DaddyBare, and I thank you for taking the time to educate us on this issue. I'm embarrassed to admit that I almost passed over the thread because I've been desensitized to these types of plights (a horrible but honest admission) and although I know that terrible atrocities were committed against Native American and Aboriginal peoples (as well as many others whose names I probably don't even know), I have never taken the time to really understand the specifics of exactly what was done to them. I was a young person watching the 1973 Oscars but I remember Littlefeather and the discomfort my own parents felt when she delivered Marlon Brando's message - I remember that it wasn't anger or disgust but shame and embarrassment and when I asked them what it was about, they swept the conversation away. I guess that they weren't strong enough to own up to where those feelings were coming from. As I sit here thinking about why, a seemingly educated and caring person such as myself would turn her head from this subject, the first thought that popped into my head is that from early childhood we, in the US, have had the image of the "savage indian" planted in our brains and perhaps that was the cause of my desensitization. From the videos you posted, as well as the Oscar video posted by ThinkingCap, it's apparent that these are gentle people who, in spite of the horrible things done to them, want only to be respected and "reconcile" as an acknowledged and equally respected segment of human society. What a humbling and important lesson for all of us to learn from their attitudes and I hope I honor them by saying that I finally get it. Also, it seems to be a recurring theme in many topics posted by people on ATS over the past few months who are here to truly educate and expand their way of thinking - when you look to seek retribution for the wrongs done to you, you end up locked in a neverending cycle of hatred and resentment; however, when you look to forgive and share your love and forgiveness, it opens up a world of endless possibilities. I'm not sure if I articulated what I'm trying to convey adequately and hope that everyone can understand. The Aboriginal people are asking us to move on and accept them and their traditions as one equally important piece of the entire fabric of humanity. They are asking for the same rights and respect that all others are given and nothing more or less. You can't get more loving and pure than that.

S & F for helping me become a better person by understanding this.

Timidgal

reply to post by darius2025


what would you say if our roles were reversed...

What if my brother red skins came into you home and removed your children at gun point!
What if we made them attend our school where they are beaten for speaking English, made to renounce they god, they culture, their heritage, their own parents... then we force them to take new names and force then to fit into our society???? that was done to us... and it could be done to you...

would you still feel the need to accept and adapt... or you would you fight?

reply to post by DaddyBare


Is it still happening today? I really hope not. If it is, its a human rights violation. Is Canada still allowing this to happen? To todays natives?

My logic is not flawed at all,I said in essence that wether you feel wronged or not you and your culture are willing participants in humanitys struggles to march forward,you are here speaking and communicating amongst the rest of us because there is nowhere else for you to be.

I would defend my belongings and my resources and property to the best of my abilitys,then my BRAIN would kick into survival mode and I would COMPREHEND that things "as I knew them to be "were over FOREVER.

What you are missing in your interpretation of my statements is simple logic and common sense.

Survival instinct says ,you go to reservations with your women and children,you be quiet,you reproduce,you hang onto the past for as many generations as can handle that particular brand of lunacy,then you slowly integrate into the greater mass of humanity as you are and have always been supposed to do.

The word indigineous is a fallacy and a creation of a manipulative mind.It does not exist.

Listen you lost ,plain and simple,Canada has enough of this crap already with Quebec.

For gods sakes Quebec was a losers conscession,it was never intended to be a soverign state within but without the rest of Canada.

Same crap,THEY LOST--ITS OVER STOP WHINING AND MANIPULATING.

Dont you people care about your COUNTRY???

This is why you lost the first time,and why your cultures have been absorbed as my historical culture was also absorbed.

Start to care about the collective reality surrounding you and your families instead of your own self vested interests.

Do you want your children to remember you as sorry lost beaten down underdogs,OR PROUD BRAVE SURVIVORS WHO HAVE LEARNED TO ADAPT AND INTEGRATE AND PARTICIPATE IN HUMANITIES PROGRESS ALONGSIDE ALL OTHER RACES.

You sound like you have already chosen the former.

reply to post by topherman420


Keep in mind only a small percent of NDA's Live on Rez's...
My dad hated the notion and he moved us to the city... I was educated in the public school system, not only did I go to college while I served in the Marines... today I still work for the government... Voc Rehab , helping disabled persons go back to work so they don't have to live off of meager government subsidies...

but I still have my tribal affiliation card... I have never taken a dime of money I didn't earn... back home if I get sick and a private hospital finds out... they will ship my butt to the nearest BIA hospital and those are a nightmare...

I pay the same taxes you and your mother do... here I have private insurance that cost's not just an arm and leg but first born as well.... I think most NDA's would gladly give up hand outs for a hand up.... wouldn't you?

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by darius2025

 

what would say if our roles were reversed...

What if my brother red skins came into you home and removed your children at gun point!
What if we made them attend our school where they are beaten for speaking English, made to renounce they god, they culture, their heritage, their own parents... then we force them to take new names and force then to fit into our society???? that was done to us... and it could be done to you...

would you still feel the need to accept and adapt... or you would you fight?

If it happened many blue moons ago. NOthing. If our roles were reversed, I would continue living and let it be. It happened a long time ago man. Do yourself a favour before you drive yourself nuts... let it go. And why are they 'your brothers' and not mine? What does the colour of our skin mean? Man, you really gotta look in the mirror long and hard to realize you are a true hypocrite. I am adaptive. I would adapt to your society and your standards. I have had to do so before, and I succeeded.

Fighting is retarded. Any form of fighting. Your own chiefs said as much to the 'less intelligent' of your leaders. Did anyone take heed? No. Instead your tribes took up arms and started fighting not only the British, French and Americans.... they also started fighting each other. You certainly seem to have a strange grasp on reality.

Yip im all for giving Canada and America back to the native population, that wont cause calamity AT ALL. Now if only i knew the people THEY all killed when they assumed control of the continent as the dominant peoples and get us selves a day of rememberance for them.....or are we only going so far back in time?

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

Is it still happening today? I really hope not. If it is, its a human rights violation. Is Canada still allowing this to happen? To todays natives?

Couldn't say up where you are... but as to your question... is it still happening... he's a FAQ from the BIA web site

Currently, the Bureau of Indian Education oversees a total of 183 elementary, secondary, residential and peripheral dormitories across 23 states. 126 schools are tribally controlled under P.L. 93-638 Indian Self Determination Contracts or P.L. 100-297 Tribally Controlled Grant Schools Act. 57 schools are operated by the Bureau of Indian Education. The Bureau of Indian Education also oversees two (2) post-secondary schools: Haskell Indian Nations University and Southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institute.

so the answer is yes... but not with the brutally that was common up until the late 1970's

Originally posted by Johnze
Yip im all for giving Canada and America back to the native population, that wont cause calamity AT ALL. Now if only i knew the people THEY all killed when they assumed control of the continent as the dominant peoples and get us selves a day rememberance for them.

I swear I'm gonna start banging my head on the desk....

were not asking anyone to go or give back... were asking for equal right and for our governments to honor and abide by the agreements they signed... that's all...

Now I got a headache.... maybe I better shut up before I say something I regret

Originally posted by one4all
For christs sakes will you stop the insanity already.

Immigrants from all around the world came to north america and other places and TOOK WHAT THEY WANTED,-----so whats the big deal?

You so called indigineous people didnt lose anything that belonged to you!
You didnt own the land or the resources,no one did.

You didnt enforce ownership or lay claim in a recognisable manner to these things you claimed were stolen from you.

In using your logic, then it was no more "ours" than it was "theirs". Whereas you're entitled to your opinion (as we all are) I can't agree with this and from a practical perspective, neither do the laws of the United States which state that possession is 9/10th's of the law. Also, as George Santayana so eloquently wrote in summarizing the lessons conveyed by many great men and philosophers before him, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.". Just because we have continued to act in the same immoral way over and over again throughout history doesn't mean we should give up on hoping that the selfish brazenness of our misdeeds will finally, one day, sink in and stop.

Timidgal

reply to post by DaddyBare


What do you do to protest this fact other than internet forum posts?

Im sorry i need to know these things, otherwise, its all just a bit, meh, yes?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by DaddyBare

Originally posted by Johnze
Yip im all for giving Canada and America back to the native population, that wont cause calamity AT ALL. Now if only i knew the people THEY all killed when they assumed control of the continent as the dominant peoples and get us selves a day rememberance for them.

I swear I'm gonna start banging my head on the desk....

were not asking anyone to go or give back... were asking for equal right and for our governments to honor and abide by the agreements they signed... that's all...

Now I got a headache.... maybe I better shut up before I say something I regret

Hey dude, here's an idea. Stop pretending like you are owed something. Stop saying you are native and stand firmly for what they believe in. Start acting like any other person. Throw away your native cards or whatever it is you have and act like others who aren't native. Still can't get equal treatment? Werid... I could have sworn that would have worked. /sigh

Originally posted by DaddyBare

Originally posted by topherman420
reply to post by DaddyBare

 

Is it still happening today? I really hope not. If it is, its a human rights violation. Is Canada still allowing this to happen? To todays natives?

Couldn't say up where you are... but as to your question... is it still happening... he's a FAQ from the BIA web site

Currently, the Bureau of Indian Education oversees a total of 183 elementary, secondary, residential and peripheral dormitories across 23 states. 126 schools are tribally controlled under P.L. 93-638 Indian Self Determination Contracts or P.L. 100-297 Tribally Controlled Grant Schools Act. 57 schools are operated by the Bureau of Indian Education. The Bureau of Indian Education also oversees two (2) post-secondary schools: Haskell Indian Nations University and Southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institute.

so the answer is yes... but not with the brutally that was common up until the late 1970's

Okay...im confused. What is the sinister part of these schools in your eyes that violates human rights? Offering education opportunities is a good thing. Are the parents not involved in their education, to oversee if theres anything they don't agree with? Are they forcibly removed from their homes and placed in these schools? Im having a hard time seeing the current human rights violations.

My native ancestors first came from the canadian Huron indians. These people were almost completely wiped out, not from the white man, but from other tribes. Some of my ancestor's tribes then joined up with tribes in America.

I don't condone what was done to any native tribes from anywhere, but we must understand that there were warring tribes and tragedy from them as well.

reply to post by Johnze


I'm sharing a news story... about Canada...

so no, I'm not actively doing anything to protest... not this issue...
I have another just as relevant and tragic group I am and active member of...
Click here if your curious
yes we have our own lobbyist and I too have stood on the capitol steps in protest....I'm also a peer counselor...
in fact if you like I can even share a link to the photo of my own son... he and his story made me a member of POMC

so what have you done recently?

Originally posted by DaddyBare
reply to post by Johnze

 

I'm sharing a news story... about Canada...

so no, I'm not actively doing anything to protest... not this issue...
I have another just as relevant and tragic group I am and active member of...
Click here if your curious
yes we have our own lobbyist and I too have stood on the capitol steps in protest....I'm also a peer counselor...
in fact if you like I can even share a link to the photo of my own son... he and his story made me a member of POMC

so what have you done recently?

edit on 23-6-2011 by DaddyBare because: (no reason given)

I would just like to ask you to consider that the current events in regards to this subject matter may be directly related to propaganda and brainwashing. Children learn from their elders... but elders are really set in their ways.... so what children really learn is how to fight a cause that doesn't need fighting. This goes on for generations and generations. If you really want to do something nice for your people. Get into true education and get your children out of the mindset that they are being somehow wronged and discriminated against, when they are not.

Then again... this being a conspiracy theory website... this must be 'the biggest' conspiracy towards natives. Except that I know this is wrong. I know natives. In fact, I know 2 kinds of natives. The crazy kind who are always wronged... and the other kind who look, live, feel and contribute just like me. Weird.

reply to post by DaddyBare


Im actualy glad to hear that man, it just lends that little bit of credance to your cause you know. Me?, nothing, i quite personaly dont care for the plight of the native american in todays crazy crazy world, im basicaly just trying to survive as it is. I also live in a country thousands of miles away and your concerns do not in anyway affect my life, so to be honest i dont feel obliged to be doing anything about it.

All i was trying to establish was if YOU were doing anything about this outrage other than highlite it on a forum, which is perfectly acceptable thing to do and all that, raise awareness etc. Just good to hear your not another one of these hypocrites on here, there everywhere.

Though lets be honest here, this is all assuming native americans deserve equal rights, do they?, do they really?. Surely only american citizens have equal rights.

Blacks have something close to equal rights, simply on account of the fact we decided to free them from being our slaves and, over time, are gaining more equality, sort off. Native Americans however decided it would be funny to wage a war against us, whats that all about?, thats not how you go about getting equal rights. Especialy when you loose.

How sad it is that DaddyBare started this thread with the intention of educating those interested in expanding their knowledge and, in the end, is left in a defensive position where he is forced to endure personal attacks. As has been said many times in many other threads, if you find the subject matter or opinion of any OP to be personally offensive or frustrating for whatever reason, you have the right to move on to the next thread but let's appeal to our better selves and respect the rights of others to express and disuss issues without derailment or personal attack.

DaddyBare, thanks again for the knowledge I personally attained from your sharing of this information. I'm now disengaging from this thread because it sways me from my purpose of being a member of the ATS community (to learn and grow). I wish you well and will always give more attention and consideration to these issues - if nothing else, you should feel good that you changed the perspective of at least one other person.

Be well!

Timidgal

I see a large conspiracy from those European colonists that "integrated" all the world from the Africans, Asians, Aboriginees, Inuit, Maya, and Tribal Americans. The infiltrators of the Church and those wielding power brought on a Dark Age in Europe and spread ignorance as far as they could. Witch hunts and scientific heretic trials had nothing to do with a superstitious love of God. It was always about keeping knowledge hidden and away from the masses. When these "colonists" encountered undiscovered peoples, they set about the systematic destruction of their writings, oral traditions, histories, knowledge, and culture. All in the name of keeping all of the masses as ignorant and controllable as possible. Superstition and racism are just the false masks that those in power claimed as reasons for genocide and destroying histories and knowledge.

All native inhabitants of their ancestral homelands have a right to stand up and expose the centuries long inhumanity. It was always about spreading ignorance, never about superstition, race, or viewing others as "savage."

I support natives of any land standing up against colonization and inhumanity.