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Hominoid Molar Tooth Dated at 17 Million Years Old Found in Southern Germany

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posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 08:39 AM
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Africa is regarded as the center of evolution of humans and their precursors. Yet long before modern humans left Africa some 125,000 years ago, their antecedents migrated from Africa to Eurasia many times, as is documented in the fossil record. How often, when and why hominoids went "out of Africa" is still a hotly debated field of intense research. Possibly, the first wave of emigration occurred 17 million years before the present, as documented by finds in the Swabian northern Alpine foreland basin, southwest of Sigmaringen.

Researchers from Tübingen successfully pinpointed the age of a molar tooth at 17 to 17.1 Ma, together with colleagues from Helsinki, Munich and Stuttgart. It is thus the oldest known Eurasian hominoid found to date. The results are now published in the Journal of Human Evolution. The owner of the tooth once inhabited a lakeside landscape with subtropical vegetation in a warm-humid climatic zone. Today, there is an abandoned quarry at the locality known among palaeontologists for its fossiliferous layers.


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17 Million years that's a lot of prehistory. Leaves us more than enough room to have a little fun with what may or may not have happened in the far past.




posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 08:40 AM
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reply to post by iforget
 


very interesting, talk of early life on earth, this could give sight into what to expect if everything goesi nto a cycle.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 08:46 AM
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reply to post by iforget
 


Can they be sure the tooth belongs to a hominoid and not an ape or related species?

If this is true then it should be groundbreaking but can a tooth really provide conclusive evidence? Are they able to further testing such as finding any DNA remnants etc??



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


The article was fairly technical though mostly related to the dating process. Personally I would say that yes we can be sure it was indeed a hominid fossil though I am also sure there is always room for debate.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 09:00 AM
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reply to post by iforget
 


I hope it is proved to hominid or humanoid it would chnage history books!

I can understand that if indeed their were humans or similar species around that long ago that their bones may not have survived due to how much more fragile they are compared to say a dinosuar bone or in the latter a dino fossil.

Look forward to further to developments - thanks for posting



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by Havick007
 


We do know that there are hominid fossils found from this time period in Africa what is new about this is that this fossil was found in Europe. Teeth are certainly a very accurate way of determining species of origin.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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I wonder if because our current experience of living on the surface of Mother Earth has run pretty smoothly we have no real memory or appreciation of the earth in full eruption, or what upheaval and turmoil that can happen to the surface of our planet.

Some findings have bones of different species flung into an area that trapped them showing both sudden and violent change. Perhaps because of the speed changes can occur and the forces involved we are actually very lucky to have much left in the way of fossil records in some parts of the world. Also where ice has semi covered the planet so much from the surface could have been moved over considerable distances. 17million years is cool.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by Lynda101
 


I my lifetime I have seen the accepted understanding go from slow and gradual change to sometimes there are indeed rapid cataclysmic changes. If you're saying could a hominids head have been blown out of Africa by a super-volcano or something similiar rather than having migrated to Europe; I would say possibly accept that later more complete fossil records indicate that there have indeed been errr less spectacular migrations.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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reply to post by iforget
 


H He, No, nothing as speculative as long range flying skulls not, that I would knock the idea, I was thinking that bodies are organic and consequently fragile, especially to the power of the elements; which is why I am not particularly surprised that very little is left, in the Northern hemisphere especially where change to the surface by things like ice, flood and vulcanoes and earthquakes etc happened.

I think the ice core samples, are a fascinating record of the past which we are incredibly lucky to have because they show so much information.

I am not totally convinced with the idea that man evolved just in one place on the earth. I would not challenge it as such but I would not be surprised to learn, that man appeared in a number of different places that would have supported him simultaneously.

I watch the experts, when they deal with the ancient world make some 'interesting' interpretations on a few bones. The size of Neanderthal's brain and homo sapien's came under fire recently with a scientist telling us that the Neanderthal whose brain was larger was no cleverer than homo sapiens and I am still puzzling as to exactly how he came to that conclusion when waving their two skulls about. I must admit I find our past every bit as fascinating as our future.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Lynda101
 


makes sense to me, you have a healthy amount of insight


No one should argue that our past is not as open to speculation as our future and I very much enjoy learning and dreaming of both. thanks for your thoughts



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by iforget
 


Interesting, thanks for posting. Animals migrate all the time, to look for better food sources or follow prey. There seems to be a large number of hominid migrations, although we do pay attention to them more, them being our ancestors. This is the earliest "out of africa" migration I've heard of so far.

But you have to bear in mind the article describes the hominoids as afropithecins which looked like this:



Between 1 to 2 million years ago there were at least 7 hominids of the same Genus, Homo, living together. Now there is only one, Homo sapiens (us). The last out of africa migration may have stopped the natural evolution of our genus unless something really bad happens to our civilization.

Source: en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by iforget
 


I hope it is proved to hominid or humanoid it would chnage history books!


Not really. We have older hominid specimens, so this is simply an amendment to how far they ranged.


I can understand that if indeed their were humans or similar species around that long ago that their bones may not have survived due to how much more fragile they are compared to say a dinosuar bone or in the latter a dino fossil.


Most of the smaller dinosaur remains didn't get fossilized, and those that did are almost always incredibly battered and fragmented. I've seen an almost complete skeleton of a Psittocoroid, which was about the size of one of those Galapagos iguanas, but the rest of the material (like the oldest bird in North America) are bits and pieces.

We do get some decent teeth occasionally, but very few fossils from things that were human sized and smaller.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 06:19 PM
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Originally posted by Lynda101The size of Neanderthal's brain and homo sapien's came under fire recently with a scientist telling us that the Neanderthal whose brain was larger was no cleverer than homo sapiens and I am still puzzling as to exactly how he came to that conclusion when waving their two skulls about.


A technique called "cranial endocast."
The Wikipedia article is technical and not much help. Basically, the shape of the skull is determined by the shape of the brain and you CAN see the little valleys and lumps and so forth (gyri (gyrus) and sulci (sulcus), if you want the technical terms.) You can see the shape and width of the areas of the brain.

The more gyri and sulci there are on a brain, the more "gray matter" in the brain. "Gray matter" is the area where information processing is done.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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i often wonder about these kinds of things. i like to imagine that it could be future man who time traveled back in time and died in our past.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:51 AM
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Originally posted by Havick007
reply to post by iforget
 


Can they be sure the tooth belongs to a hominoid and not an ape or related species?

If this is true then it should be groundbreaking but can a tooth really provide conclusive evidence? Are they able to further testing such as finding any DNA remnants etc??


Hominid != Humanoid

Hominids are the "great apes" which includes many species, including all humanoids, gorillas, chimpanzees, and orangutans.




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