San Francisco's anti-circumcision initiative faces court challenge

reply to post by gps777


Yes, I know of non-religious people who did it also, ascribing to the cleanliness myth. And also, just because "that's the way it's done"...

As far as aesthetics, I guess it's a matter of opinion, but the one who should make that decision is the person with the penis, not his mom and dad. I actually prefer a non-circumcised penis because it's exciting to know that he's getting all the pleasure he was meant to have.

Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by Klassified

The Jews do it because it was part of their perpetual covenant with the Hebrew God.

Genesis 17:11

And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin. And it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

So this has been a practice for thousands of years.

Thats fine to me.

It doesn`t say it should be done to babies and children.

 

Also

Sacrifices are a common theme in most religions, though the frequency of animal, and especially human, sacrifices are rarely performed today.
en.wikipedia.org...

Are we all to allow anybodies religious rituals?

Parents do not own their babies that allow them to mutilate their sons and cause them excruciating pain based on ignorance and selfish preference.

Let them grow up and make their own decision.

Unfortunately, yes it does. Leviticus 12:2-3

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

I dont believe it to be a christian thing to begin with

You're right, it's not a christian thing. But many christians still try to follow certain aspects of the old testament law. They haven't been taught from the pulpit how to view the law. Mostly because the church would lose money and control if christians knew their bible.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by gps777
Thats fine to me.

It doesn`t say it should be done to babies and children.

Exactly. I don't understand how people can do this to their children. I guess if they wait until he grows up, he might not want to have it done, so they get to him before he has any power to defy...

Religion makes people do insane things. :shk:

You said a mouthful there BH.
Also, see my post above.

Originally posted by Klassified

Unfortunately, yes it does. Leviticus 12:2-3

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

I couldn`t do it,I`d have to renouse being Jewish,heck I had to fight myself to get my boys vaccinated,just from the jab alone.

You're right, it's not a christian thing. But many christians still try to follow certain aspects of the old testament law.

So I thank you for starting the topic,that it may serve in denying ignorance.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Originally posted by showintail
I will simply say, as a woman, I have a definate preference. And my son looks like his father.

I think this is a family decision. Not a state decision.

So you're saying that you forced a permanent cosmetic alteration on your son so that his penis would look more sexually appealing to you.

Weird.

No, what is weird is you chose to read and not comprehend. If my sons father is un circ'd, that means my son is un circ'd also. And vice versa. Never stated if he was or wasn't. You know what they say about assume-ing...

Originally posted by showintail
I will simply say, as a woman, I have a definate preference. And my son looks like his father.

I think this is a family decision. Not a state decision.

So you decided for your son? No reason for circumcision just another savage outdated barbaric mutilation in the name of religion. Might as well allow female circumcision. Oh wait that is banned.

What guy would ever want to chop up his "pee pee"? one that has been brainwashed into NWO.

reply to post by atomicn


Read post directley above yours.

These replies automaticcly assuming I circ'ed my son are the exact reason I did not state if he is or is not. Shows who is actually reading, the different ways we judge others (one was just sick), and also shows how people are attacked for choices made as a parent.

My exact reason why these desicions should be left to the family and not for the public to interfere. point proven. Thanks for playing.

My children are minors, I do "own" them to a certain extent until 18 yrs of age or move out of my house. Since I am automaticlly responsible for anything they do.

Damn liberals, this can't happen.

Originally posted by showintail
reply to post by atomicn

 

My children are minors, I do "own" them to a certain extent until 18 yrs of age or move out of my house. Since I am automaticlly responsible for anything they do.

I am not saying that you did, but by this logic if you had would they then have the right to sue you > 18 if they didn't like it?

You are responsible for them until 18, you don't own them. Besides that, 18 is YOUNG. What about the rest of their life? They have to live their whole lives with a decision that their parents made for them.

Again on the male vs female circumcision - the specifics may be different but they are overall similar in that you are cutting off part of the genitals. Telling me to do my research? lol. Try looking at the development of human foetuses and you will see that both sets of genitalia are morphologically and functionally quite similar. Therefore, cutting off similar (not identical) parts is similar. I don't see why this is such a stretch, besides females thinking that its ok for males but not for females for some reason. i.e. Hypocrisy and sexism. Once again I am not trying to deny that the effects of the female version are more severe, more painful and have more complications. All I said is the process is similar for both genders.

Imagine if their was a custom to cut off an ear or gouge out an eye, or chop off a finger or a limb. Who would be up for that and say its fine? How come parents aren't allowed to sacrifice their children to Satan in the name of religious tolerance? We draw lines in the sand and say "That is not appropriate anymore" all the time, so why not with this outdated practice?

Oh well, thankfully I am still in tact because my Dad (who isn't) realised that its a pointless practice. Cheers Dad

I've never understood the practice myself and consider it abuse. You wouldn't chop of an ear, or the tip of the nose, or have a toe removed without expecting repurcussions from the Police or Social Services, no matter what myths your buying into to justify the physical assault on a minor.

Also, I have noticed that the practice (outside Judaism) is most prevalent in the US. I do not know alot of men in the UK, for example, who have been chopped. Why is it so common in the US amongst non-Jews, and spare me the cleanliness or STD argument, as it is unfounded.

Is it really that hard to wash your willy? I've never had any complaints about mine being either smelly, unclean or ugly. In fact, quite the opposite.

The other claims about STD's are just ludicrous. You can prevent getting them with protection, whether circumcised or not. It has nothing to do with whether you have a foreskin, but rather whether you've got your end away with someone who is carrying an STD already.

Originally posted by showintail

These replies automaticcly assuming I circ'ed my son are the exact reason I did not state if he is or is not. Shows who is actually reading, the different ways we judge others (one was just sick), and also shows how people are attacked for choices made as a parent.

My exact reason why these desicions should be left to the family and not for the public to interfere. point proven. Thanks for playing.

My children are minors, I do "own" them to a certain extent until 18 yrs of age or move out of my house.

I think a good measure to solve the problem once and for all would be- that if parents want to circumsize their baby boys,then the parents should have their eye lids cut off without the use of anesthetics (so that they get to feel as the child)and the eye lids replaced with the skin of the foreskin,maybe that would help with their foresight.

I bet it would stop overnight and go on to allow the boy to make his own decision later on in life.Win/win.

Originally posted by gps777

Originally posted by showintail

These replies automaticcly assuming I circ'ed my son are the exact reason I did not state if he is or is not. Shows who is actually reading, the different ways we judge others (one was just sick), and also shows how people are attacked for choices made as a parent.

My exact reason why these desicions should be left to the family and not for the public to interfere. point proven. Thanks for playing.

My children are minors, I do "own" them to a certain extent until 18 yrs of age or move out of my house.

I think a good measure to solve the problem once and for all would be- that if parents want to circumsize their baby boys,then the parents should have their eye lids cut off without the use of anesthetics (so that they get to feel as the child)and the eye lids replaced with the skin of the foreskin,maybe that would help with their foresight.

I bet it would stop overnight and go on to allow the boy to make his own decision later on in life.Win/win.

Now thats scary! And yes, that would end it! Lol

I was think about the female circ. If it was the "norm" would it bother me? Idk, , need to resear8h it. Ive been peirced, didnt hurt but a second. (i know, not the same)

I guess if I heard from circumcisd men, saying they were unhappy, that would make more sense. I have never heard a man complain about it. I have heard a man wish he was circ'd as an infant, because he had to have it done later in life

reply to post by showintail


We are not talking about adults,your comparing being peirced to circumcision? try having the thought of having your labia cut off as an adult then see if you would allow that to happen to a baby girl,then think the same for boys.

I posted this on the first page..

Is circumcision less painful for a baby than for an adult?
Infants experience excruciating pain during circumcision and for weeks afterwards, and they can show behavioural changes such as frequent crying, avoidance of physical contact, reduced feeding, and sleep disturbance. Local anaesthetic creams such as EMLA are not adequate, and a general anaesthetic poses a significant risk for infants under the age of six months. Adult circumcision is less painful as men can undergo general anaesthesia and receive pain relief during the post-operative period.
www.bellybelly.com.au...

Add to that, urine in their nappies.Sheesh.

Sorry I dont mean to be directing this squarely at you,it just bothers me a lot that people cant make these comparisons as adults and do these things to babies for no good reason.

reply to post by gps777


I know its not the same what im saying, is if it wss the norm and was done to me, im not sure I would care? Also I need to do more research to find out more about the female version. so I cant really speak on it.