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The Intelligent UFO Thread.

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posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

The discussion on this thread relates mainly to trained, credible, professionals. Alien abduction is a different class of witness altogether.

It seems that most of the scientific data is only available to compartmentalised sections of the military and intelligence communities. That is unfortunate. All types of evidence should be taken into account if you are serious about getting to the truth.




posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

The discussion on this thread relates mainly to trained, credible, professionals. Alien abduction is a different class of witness altogether.

It seems that most of the scientific data is only available to compartmentalised sections of the military and intelligence communities. That is unfortunate. All types of evidence should be taken into account if you are serious about getting to the truth.


Please provide clear and concise evidence, that clearly indicates that "compartmentalised sections of the military and intelligence communities" have this information. If you cannot, we have ZERO within the intelligent discussion of the UFO phenomenon in this thread.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

This thread has some interesting evidence.

Credible UFO Quotes by prominent individuals.

Richard Dolan has covered this topic. UFOs and the national security state is a good book.

The second video is the best one. The first is a quickie for newbies. Oh yes, it contains some concise, documented evidence in response to your request.





edit on 23/6/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

edit on 23/6/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)

edit on 23/6/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)


Any questions, let me know.

edit on 23/6/11 by Pimander because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by MadhatterTheGreat
A couple of you misunderstood me. I have no problem with someone posting whatever they believe, but do so in an intelligent manner without sensationalism, and I know a lot of people would agree with me that there are a lot of posts in that manner and I have seen many members complaining about such posts which is why I asked they be left out. The fact I believe certain things doesn't contradict anything I asked for in the thread. If someone believes we were created by a reptilian alien race so that they may be entertained in between orgies and worshipping the dark lord of the universe, that's fine by me just be intelligent and respectful about it. Some of you are pretty sensitive.


MOD NOTE:
People can post however they want and wherever they want.........as long as they do so within Terms and Conditions of Usewhich includes posting on topic and remaining civil. The rules are already there
No need to make that a disclaimer.


edit on June 23rd 2011 by greeneyedleo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

This thread has some good evidence.

Credible UFO Quotes by prominent individuals.



Hey, THANKS for obviously being sincere, but I didn't see ANY evidence of the Abduction phenomenon within that thread. I know that it has been investigated, but with utter inconclusive findings.

There is absolutely no denying that "something" is happening with respect to the abduction phenomenon, but there is NOTHING that conclusively (factually) ties one phenomena to the other.

Let me ask you a question, because obviously you ARE intelligent. Just please consider this: If you were a human being that was completely TERRIFIED by being repeatedly abducted by what you refer to as "non human, alien beings", and all of this is happening completely beyond your control, consisting of mental and physical atrocities that could only be likened to a slightly more sympathetic Nazi as far as your personal consent in the matter, would you, or would you not, SEEK HELP. And I am NOT talking some flamboyant individual like a good deal of the "paranormal investigator" variety that report this nonsense based solely upon "their word". What you would most likely do in that circumstance however, is to seek the REAL help and ultimate sanctuary from professional doctors and scientists who would give their right arm to participate in such a controlled exercise.

The first thing the ol' paranormal crowd is going to hit you with is "they don't want to be treated like guinea pigs or lab animals" Well, let me assure you, they wouldn't be if they went to anyone I know. They would be treated like kings and queens with everything they could imagine at their disposal. Ever heard of the "witness protection program", this would make that look like a stay at the YMCA/YWCA.

The truth is, most of those people that the paranormal investigator's tout as "credible abductees", yet never make known to the public, are in fact VERY mentally ill human beings that desperately need medical attention. That in and of itself, is SAD.

Abduction is a REAL phenomenon, however, we have NO CLUE what it really is, or represents. Therefore, it has no place in a legitimate, intelligent, UFO discussion.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

Are you just trying to waste peoples time? You just asked:

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
Please provide clear and concise evidence, that clearly indicates that "compartmentalised sections of the military and intelligence communities" have this information. If you cannot, we have ZERO within the intelligent discussion of the UFO phenomenon in this thread.

I just gave you some.

Nobody at all on this thread has mentioned the abduction phenomenon until you did.


Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
There is absolutely no denying that "something" is happening with respect to the abduction phenomenon, but there is NOTHING that conclusively (factually) ties one phenomena to the other.

I agree. There is some witness evidence of a link in the form of reports of UFO being present before, during or after alleged abductions but very little.

However, what we were TRYING to discuss were credible, trained witnesses and whistle blowers who have claimed to know what is going on. I still can't understand what abduction experiences have to do with that.


Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
Abduction is a REAL phenomenon, however, we have NO CLUE what it really is, or represents. Therefore, it has no place in a legitimate, intelligent, UFO discussion.

So why did you bring it up.

edit on 23/6/11 by Pimander because: added a quote



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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First of all, I think that most, if not all UFO's have some intelligence behind them, so, IMHO,....

oh, wait: This is not about intelligence of and within the UFO's themselves, but rather intelligent discussion ABOUT UFO's.

Never mind...



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by Pimander
 



Sir, I suggest you READ the initial post before wasting anymore of my time. Then I would suggest you read

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Maybe if you were to concentrate on reading, and then UNDERSTANDING what is, and what is NOT, evidence, you would have known better. Testimony is NOT evidence and I NEVER asked for your opinion on what is intelligent evidence. The last three posts that I made were within the context that the abduction phenomenon has no place within an intelligent UFO discussion. You responded OUT OF CONTEXT that you had evidence to the contrary. Not my fault you're lost.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

Oh yes, abduction did get a tiny mention in the OP. Apologies.


However, when I mentioned compartmentalised scientific data, I wasn't talking about abduction - I was talking about UFO data. The thread is called "The Intelligent UFO Thread." I was trying to supply you with evidence that there is classified data that the public may not have access to.... Crossed wire I think.... Never mind



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 09:48 AM
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How anybody can reject any possibility of ET interactions either in the past or now that has read the books of Timothy Good is beyond me;Those that have engage in all or some of Goods books will perceive why i said the latter;

edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: perception



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by K-PAX-PROT
How anybody can reject any possibility of ET interactions either in the past or now that has read the books of Timothy Good is beyond me;Those that have engage in all or some of Goods books will perceive why i said the latter;

edit on 15/07/2010 by K-PAX-PROT because: perception


Who in the world stated that? "reject any possibility of ET interactions either in the past or now" part? One cannot be honestly skeptical and deny such possibilities, this is fact based on the absolute nature of skepticism itself. At that point as a skeptic, the skeptic becomes what a great deal of the UFO community has been corrupted and severely diluted by, namely, an exclusive, "cult like, religious following, consisting of a myriad of psychologically appealing "deception for profit/device" schemes, as well as a regular circus of wacko infused narrow minded thinking. Not a critical brain cell among the best of these in the least, begging for substantiation to the point of exhaustion. A thirst never quenched.

I give you... the Paranormal Blogger..uh, we'll save that one for a different forum, but you get the picture.

The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE. So, when a truly considerate and intelligent consideration is made (intelligence in my book being defined as one that can carefully entertain two opposing theoretical considerations, without being bound by routine, if not painfully predictable, premature *braingasm) for that which constitutes "an intelligent UFO thread", It's gotta stay "real".

Braingasm: "When the mind feels ignorant bliss in joyful abundance as a result of entertaining consideration's only definable as "possible" while blindly accepting them as "fact". A woeful substitution commonly performed at the beckoned call of a wide variety of psychologically identifiable triggers."

IMO, take it all in, savor that rich, tantalizing, and utterly fantastic flavor of all things "possible". Enjoy your cerebral edification as much as your heart desires. Stretch, exercise and develop your mind to the point of complete mental liberty, but don't make the mistake of accepting McDonald's Ufology, or worse, the dreaded Gas Station Candy Bar variety Ufology, as being substantial scientific nutrition, no matter how good it tastes.

The consequences will be absolute, and exceptionally unhealthy, whomever chooses that path.
edit on 24-6-2011 by MasterOfSparkz because: content



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 06:39 AM
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Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE.

That is nothing but a pointless assertion. You DO NOT know that. Many people have claimed to know quite a lot - you do not know whether the information supplied by them is correct. That is obvious.

"Somebody" may well - and in my opinion does - know a lot more than you seem to believe. Your statement is just an opinion and is not based on the available evidence. I base that on the FACT that so much secrecy surrounds this topic. See Richard Dolan above or the books of Timothy Good for evidence.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat
 


What a refreshing post that was! You wrote for you and me both there!
You sound like a very intelligent guy with your eyes and mind open, but also with a healthy skepticism, and this is the key to this subject!

Having an intelligent discussion here on ATS with all the payroll debunkers?...... Good luck!

Keep following the path!



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE.

That is nothing but a pointless assertion. You DO NOT know that. Many people have claimed to know quite a lot - you do not know whether the information supplied by them is correct. That is obvious.

"Somebody" may well - and in my opinion does - know a lot more than you seem to believe. Your statement is just an opinion and is not based on the available evidence. I base that on the FACT that so much secrecy surrounds this topic. See Richard Dolan above or the books of Timothy Good for evidence.



The point is: WE DO NOT KNOW. My statement is NOT an opinion Sir. It's a FACT. YOU DON'T KNOW. If you want to turn this into a "faith" based operation, have at it. Pass the plate and let me hear you say AMEN!



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by MadhatterTheGreat
 


put a search for ufo over a55 chester to rhyl april 28 2011
my family and i had a 35 min episode



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE.

That is nothing but a pointless assertion. You DO NOT know that. Many people have claimed to know quite a lot - you do not know whether the information supplied by them is correct. That is obvious.

"Somebody" may well - and in my opinion does - know a lot more than you seem to believe. Your statement is just an opinion and is not based on the available evidence. I base that on the FACT that so much secrecy surrounds this topic. See Richard Dolan above or the books of Timothy Good for evidence.



The point is: WE DO NOT KNOW. My statement is NOT an opinion Sir. It's a FACT. YOU DON'T KNOW. If you want to turn this into a "faith" based operation, have at it. Pass the plate and let me hear you say AMEN!

Listen mate. You are allowed to admit to being wrong. Nobody is going to die and you may even get a star for it. I have to do it often enough.


You clearly asserted that, "no one 'knows' with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE."

You DO NOT KNOW THAT at all. You believe that to be true so only you are turning this into, "a faith based operation." You do not know whether you are correct. That is the only FACT in operation here.

You can twist mine or your own words as much as you like. No amount of squirming will make the assertion you originally posted anything other than a belief and/or an opinion. Pretending what you originally posted was a fact won't change the fact that I was right. You do not know that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon.

For a start, lots of sightings that are still classed as unidentified within UFOlogy are understood by some people, "with absolute certainty." Who are these people? Military contractors (secret/black projects), sections of the military and sections of the intelligence community.

Because some sightings are "Above Top Secret" this information is not in the public domain. That DOES NOT mean that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon. What that means is some things about the UFO phenomenon are well understood by some people. Some of the sightings are secret technology - often still in the development stage. However, the people concerned are not at liberty to disclose what they know - for, "reasons of national security."

A much more interesting question to ask ourselves is, "How much, and what, is known that has not been disclosed?"

We live in an era of secrecy so finding out for sure what is being kept under wraps is proving a difficult task. However, pretending nobody knows anything is not going to help us get to the bottom of this.
edit on 27/6/11 by Pimander because: typos



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE.

That is nothing but a pointless assertion. You DO NOT know that. Many people have claimed to know quite a lot - you do not know whether the information supplied by them is correct. That is obvious.

"Somebody" may well - and in my opinion does - know a lot more than you seem to believe. Your statement is just an opinion and is not based on the available evidence. I base that on the FACT that so much secrecy surrounds this topic. See Richard Dolan above or the books of Timothy Good for evidence.



The point is: WE DO NOT KNOW. My statement is NOT an opinion Sir. It's a FACT. YOU DON'T KNOW. If you want to turn this into a "faith" based operation, have at it. Pass the plate and let me hear you say AMEN!

Listen mate. You are allowed to admit to being wrong. Nobody is going to die and you may even get a star for it. I have to do it often enough.


You clearly asserted that, "no one 'knows' with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE."

You DO NOT KNOW THAT at all. You believe that to be true so only you are turning this into, "a faith based operation." You do not know whether you are correct. That is the only FACT in operation here.

You can twist mine or your own words as much as you like. No amount of squirming will make the assertion you originally posted anything other than a belief and/or an opinion. Pretending what you originally posted was a fact won't change the fact that I was right. You do not know that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon.

For a start, lots of sightings that are still classed as unidentified within UFOlogy are understood by some people, "with absolute certainty." Who are these people? Military contractors (secret/black projects), sections of the military and sections of the intelligence community.

Because some sightings are "Above Top Secret" this information is not in the public domain. That DOES NOT mean that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon. What that means is some things about the UFO phenomenon are well understood by some people. Some of the sightings are secret technology - often still in the development stage. However, the people concerned are not at liberty to disclose what they know - for, "reasons of national security."

A much more interesting question to ask ourselves is, "How much, and what, is known that has not been disclosed?"

We live in an era of secrecy so finding out for sure what is being kept under wraps is proving a difficult task. However, pretending nobody knows anything is not going to help us get to the bottom of this.
edit on 27/6/11 by Pimander because: typos


"Claims" that someone may know, does not mean that someone DOES know. Just cause it's possible, doesn't make it fact. It means it MIGHT be fact and therefore is NOT factual at this time. Why can't you follow that basic logic? Under your name it states "scientist", you SHOULD know as much. Just because something "may" exist, does in no way place that possibility within a set of factual brackets. Something MUST be substantiated prior to it being factual.
edit on 27-6-2011 by MasterOfSparkz because: punctuation



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

I am simply pointing out that, you do not - in fact CAN NOT - know that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon. In fact - as I explained in my previous post - some people do know certain facts about the UFO phenomenon because they know the details of black project sightings. As far as the public domain is concerned they remain UFOs (unidentified). That is a FACT.

If you disagree with such a basic concept then lets behave like adults and agree to disagree. You are just ignoring the facts.



Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
The point is, no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything, with the sincerest of respect for the UFO phenomenon. NO ONE. So, when a truly considerate and intelligent consideration is made (intelligence in my book being defined as one that can carefully entertain two opposing theoretical considerations, without being bound by routine, if not painfully predictable, premature *braingasm) for that which constitutes "an intelligent UFO thread", It's gotta stay "real".

So take your own advice and make sure you, "can carefully entertain two opposing theoretical considerations, without being bound by routine," and do not assert your opinion - which is not based on the available evidence - as anything resembling a fact. As you say, if this is an intelligent UFO thread - "its gotta stay 'real'."


Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
"Claims" that someone may know, does not mean that someone DOES know. Just cause it's possible, doesn't make it fact. It means it MIGHT be fact and therefore is NOT factual at this time.

Agreed. However - there is no MIGHT about this - it is a FACT that someone DOES know some of the facts (e.g. black project sighting details). You claimed that, "no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything," about the UFO phenomenon which is not true. How simple do you need this to be?



Originally posted by MasterOfSparkz
Why can't you follow that basic logic? Under your name it states "scientist", you SHOULD know as much.Something MUST be substantiated prior to it being factual.

Following your own logic - your assertion/opinion that, "no one "knows" with absolute certainty, anything," about the UFO phenomenon is unsubstantiated and NOT A FACT. Do you understand?


If you ignore what I am really saying discussion over.

All the best.



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Pimander
reply to post by MasterOfSparkz
 

I am simply pointing out that, you do not - in fact CAN NOT - know that, "no one knows with absolute certainty, anything", about the UFO phenomenon. In fact - as I explained in my previous post - some people do know certain facts about the UFO phenomenon because they know the details of black project sightings. As far as the public domain is concerned they remain UFOs (unidentified). That is a FACT.

If you disagree with such a basic concept then lets behave like adults and agree to disagree. You are just ignoring the facts.


You are over stating the OBVIOUS. I am the one, not you, that is pointing out that "NO ONE KNOWS" That means that no one knows, whether or not anyone else knows, about aliens. Therefore because of the "as of yet, non substantiated" light this information stands enlightened within, means it's NOT FACTUAL and therefore, CANNOT BE KNOWN. Just because something can exist, does not mean it does. That's why you have to take the SCIENTIFIC route of considering, as much "possible", but NOT "factual". Do you understand what I am stating here? It works BOTH ways. It has to or it would not be logical. This *IS* critical thinking.

If it's not substantiated, you have NO RIGHT (scientifically speaking) to claim as much as fact. You also have no right to go around claiming, "well, this guy says he KNOWS, and you can't read his mind, so we have to leave as much, "open". That's hogwash my friend, and in fact represents the precise opposite of critical thinking. That's called, "hearing what you want to hear, and not what's being said"



posted on Jun, 27 2011 @ 04:21 PM
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Intelligent discussion.

Could there be aliens? Maybe. We exist, so it's possible. But there's no way to tell how probable.
Are there aliens? We don't know. No proof of it so far.
Are there UFOs? Yes. There are odd things flying around that are unidentified.
Are they connected with aliens? We don't know. There's zero proof of it.

That pretty much sums it up.



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