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Where Have All The Planes Gone?

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posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
reply to post by firepilot
 


No I don't at all but no matter it won't make a difference. But like I've said before I believe what I see and I've read to many things to convince me otherwise.

I respect you and what you do. I also believe you aren't told the truth, like everyone else. So for now and the sake of argument, I'm going to drop it.

I hope in the long run the truth will be exposed and finally put to rest. Maybe, it will never happen and this debate will go on forever but let's hope it does.


So lets get this straight. Your evidence for chemtrails was that you said the planes were at the same altitude, and one was spraying and was was not. There are two things wrong with that, but anyways i pointed out how there is no way you could tell they are at the same altitude.

Then you mention that you did not know their altitudes after all, but it doesn't matter anyways. If you are after the truth, then shouldn't facts matter? Its obvious that facts do not matter, your mind is already made up.

And btw, yes you can have two planes at the same altitude anyways and one not making a contrail
elib.dlr.de...
Look at page 3. Not that it will matter I know..

edit on 24-6-2011 by firepilot because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by firepilot
 


It does matter! Thank you for showing me that.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
reply to post by firepilot
 


It does matter! Thank you for showing me that.

So what are you going to justify your belief with now? Or are you going to actually get angry at the liars who have peddled the 'chemspiracy' to you?



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by pshea38
 


The same amount of planes are flying, I assure you.

Where's ypur evidence for that statement?




Try checking with the airlines
What evidence is there that they've reduced the number of Tranatlantic flights crossing Ireland? Eh? I see a couple of BA flights in the skies over Co. Clare atm

Just because it's cloudy or conditions aren't condusive to contrail formation doesn't mean there are no aircraft!



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 12:29 PM
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Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by adeclerk
reply to post by pshea38
 


The same amount of planes are flying, I assure you.

Where's ypur evidence for that statement?




Try checking with the airlines
What evidence is there that they've reduced the number of Tranatlantic flights crossing Ireland? Eh? I see a couple of BA flights in the skies over Co. Clare atm

Just because it's cloudy or conditions aren't condusive to contrail formation doesn't mean there are no aircraft!



That only takes into account commectial airlines. But my question wasn't directed at you.

edit on 24-6-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Airplanes that are not flying for an airliner (general aviation) do not generally have set routes, schedules, specific times and dates of flights. A very SMALL percentage of them may, such as a small percentage of charter flights, or shipping flights that aren't UPS or FEDEX or DHL (we're talking small twins here). So if your argument is that you haven't seen as many non-commercial airliner flights occuring...well the number and type of aircraft varies daily.

**So as not confuse anyone, I mean that the non-airliners are the GA aircraft.
edit on 24-6-2011 by upgrayeddc310t because: added clarity



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Which of these are 'chemtrails', if you would.

ETA: The proof for my statement was in the link from the IAA that I posted, stating that air traffic is up. Did you miss that?
edit on 6/24/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

That only takes into account commectial airlines.


But almost all the aircraft producing contrails (or chemtrails if you want to call them that) are commercial airliners. The fact is, there are as many flying over when you see no contrails as there are on days when the sky is full of manmade cirrus.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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Thanks for all the replies and the interest shown.
I will keep a close eye on continuing flyover trends and i urge
everyone else to do the same in their own area.
I would urge everyone to err greatly on the side of caution and refuse
to give the benefit of the doubt to governments, who have proved over and over
again that they do not act in the best interests of their citizens, and that general health
and happiness are not integral aspects of their priorities and motivations.

Good luck to all and thanks again.

pshea.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by adeclerk
 


I don't have to justify anything troll. If you have time you should really see the sites I post below. But I'm sure you're just another disinfo agent who won't read them and make up another story.

The final report also included budgets for different applications for aerosol dispersal within the atmosphere.


“Existing aircraft are evaluated based on cost of acquisition and operations. An in-depth new aircraft design study and cost analysis was conducted to determine the cost of developing and operating a dedicated geoengineering airplane type. Similarly, an airship design study and cost analysis was conducted. Finally a survey of non-aircraft systems was conducted to determine how their costs compare to aircraft and airships. Yearly costs of 1M tonne geoengineering operations for all the systems examined are presented in Figure 2. Some systems are easily written off due to extremely high costs. Rocket based systems are not cost competitive due to the large number of launches required and the impact of occasional rocket failures on required fleet size. A system based on 16Σ” naval Mark 7 guns was analyzed and compared to previous work by the National Research Council.4 This system requires large numbers of shots increasing projectile costs and driving yearly costs over $100B. Gun costs become more competitive if the projectile payload fraction can be increased from about 10% for a standard shell to 50%. With this and a few improvements over the 1940-era Mark 7 gun yearly costs are still in the $20B range….The primary vehicles examined to lift particulate to stratospheric altitudes and disperse them at a predetermined release rate are airplanes and airships; rockets and other non- aircraft methods such as guns and suspended pipes are also surveyed.” –Aurora Flight Sciences: Geoengineering Final Report (p.5)



“Geoengineering may provide a means to create a time buffer against catastrophic cli- mate change while long-term emissions reduction actions take effect. One approach is to disperse sulfur compounds at high altitude to reduce the effective solar flux entering the atmosphere. This report will evaluate the means of delivering sufficient mass of this or similar material to affect climate change on a global scale. The goal of this study is to use engineering design and cost analysis to determine the feasibility and cost of a delivering material to the stratosphere for solar radiation management (SRM). This study does notexamine effectiveness or risks of injecting material into the stratosphere for SRM. Its goal is simply to compare a range of delivery systems on a single cost basis.” – Aurora Flight Sciences: Geoengineering Final Report (p.6)



“This study focuses on airplane and airship operations to the stratosphere to release a geoengineering payload with the goal of reducing incoming solar flux. Airships are also considered for this mission. To provide a comparison to conventional aircraft operations, more exotic concepts such as rockets, guns, and suspended pipes are also examined….For maximum cooling impact, the particulate payloads are best placed near the equator. This study assumes that the payload is released within latitudes 30°N and 30°S, though North-South basing location had minimal effect on cost. Transit operations, flying East- West between equally spaced bases around the equator, were examined as a method to ensure adequate dispersal of the payload around the equator. Global winds aid in East-West dispersal so a smaller number of bases and shorter range systems (referred to as Regional operations) can be employed with minimal impact on dispersal. Region- al operations allow the dispersal leg length to be dictated by the desired release rate of 0.03kg/m flown. This means the airplanes fly no further than they have to, on the order of 300-800 km, and fuel costs are minimized.” – Aurora Flight Sciences: Geoengineering Final report Yearly cost estimates from different dispersal methods ranged from over 1 billion dollars a year all the way up to rocket dispersed aerosol in the upper atmosphere at the cost of over 100 billion dollars per year.


I'll also note that crops are being developed to be aluminum resistant.

Aluminum resistant gene patent # 7582809

• Patent granted on September 1, 2009

• Patent developed at the Robert W. Holley Center for Agricultural Health at Cornell University in Ithaca, NY.

Link to about source....


In January, 1999, I was contacted by the managing editor of the Environment News Service, an international wire service which I had worked for in the Gulf. I was asked to check out a story by William Wallace about very unusual aerial activity over the state of Washington that was apparently changing the skies overhead. Wallace and his wife lived in a remote mountainous area, and he claimed that large unmarked jet aircraft were flying back and forth over his property, spraying something in the air. Unlike normal contrails behind commercial jets which dissipate quickly, these lingered for hours, came together and obscured the sky. Mr. Wallace said that he and his wife were very ill, their dogs were dying, and their plants were dying. I began to investigate this story and after looking at a videotape made by Mr. Wallace, realized as a former pilot and former member of the military myself, that this was very unusual aerial activity. He gave me some of his contacts across the United States, and as I followed up on those contacts, I developed a huge story. As of today we have over 1,000 eyewitness reports on the so-called chemtrail phenomena. We have documented evidence that chemtrail spraying is taking place over cities throughout Canada, the United States, England, Australia, Holland, Italy, Germany, and New Zealand. And I have uncovered direct ties between biological warfare experimentation and the spraying of pathogenic material and chemicals over our cities.

I have found in my research over the past 15 months that in every instance of heavy spraying over cities across Canada and the United States, there has been an epidemic of acute upper respiratory ailments and gastrointestinal ailments that have overfilled hospital emergency rooms across North America. After researching biological warfare, I found two U.S. Congressional investigations documenting decades of biological warfare experimentation carried out over hundreds of cities in the United States and Canada, including Winnipeg. While these biowarfare simulants were said to be "harmless", some of the new genetically-engineered pathogens - particularly mycoplasma and other fungi - are now loose among the general population. This has occurred through vaccinations of Texas prisoners, and inoculations of Gulf War soldiers - many of whom never left the United States.

Many autoimmune diseases have been seen in the wake of the chemtrail spraying - such as chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis, lupus, once very rare transverse myelitis and meningitis. My researchers and I are also finding that there appears to be a mental-emotional component to this spray that is a disorienting factor. It is a factor that makes people lethargic and mentally confused, with an inability to concentrate and short-term memory loss.


Link to above source...

Hope you guys check it out.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


The first three quotes you use refer to a study, a theory, as to how sulfur could be used to "combat global warming". It uses words such as "could, if, etc." It seems to be referencing a company's hypothesis on something that could be done in the future or something they may try in the future, IF given money for a research grant; not something that IS happening. Also, the first three quotes refer to geo-engineering in the stratosphere, NOT the troposphere, which is where all commercial airline flights and all visible weather occur (troposhperic clouds rarely breach the tropopause, this is only in cases of the most extreme thunderstorms). So I don't understand how you are linking those 3 quotes, to OP's post and genereal "chemtrail" belief that commercial airliners are spraying something into the atmosphere, and your last 2 quotes. Please explain. Thanks.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
I'll also note that crops are being developed to be aluminum resistant.


As they have been for over 100 years. It's always been a goal of crop breeders, as it allows higher yields in high-aluminum soils.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by chrismicha77
reply to post by firepilot
 


It does matter! Thank you for showing me that.

So what are you going to justify your belief with now? Or are you going to actually get angry at the liars who have peddled the 'chemspiracy' to you?


Thats one thing I have yet to see, a single case on ATS of chemtrailers who get angry at being lied at. On the contrary, they will actually defend the people that did the lying to them.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
I'll also note that crops are being developed to be aluminum resistant.

Aluminum resistant gene patent # 7582809

• Patent granted on September 1, 2009

• Patent developed at the Robert W. Holley Center for Agricultural Health at Cornell University in Ithaca, NY.

Link to about source....


In January, 1999, I was contacted by the managing editor of the Environment News Service, an international wire service which I had worked for in the Gulf. I was asked to check out a story by William Wallace about very unusual aerial activity over the state of Washington that was apparently changing the skies overhead. Wallace and his wife lived in a remote mountainous area, and he claimed that large unmarked jet aircraft were flying back and forth over his property, spraying something in the air. Unlike normal contrails behind commercial jets which dissipate quickly, these lingered for hours, came together and obscured the sky. Mr. Wallace said that he and his wife were very ill, their dogs were dying, and their plants were dying. I began to investigate this story and after looking at a videotape made by Mr. Wallace, realized as a former pilot and former member of the military myself, that this was very unusual aerial activity. He gave me some of his contacts across the United States, and as I followed up on those contacts, I developed a huge story. As of today we have over 1,000 eyewitness reports on the so-called chemtrail phenomena. We have documented evidence that chemtrail spraying is taking place over cities throughout Canada, the United States, England, Australia, Holland, Italy, Germany, and New Zealand. And I have uncovered direct ties between biological warfare experimentation and the spraying of pathogenic material and chemicals over our cities.

I have found in my research over the past 15 months that in every instance of heavy spraying over cities across Canada and the United States, there has been an epidemic of acute upper respiratory ailments and gastrointestinal ailments that have overfilled hospital emergency rooms across North America. After researching biological warfare, I found two U.S. Congressional investigations documenting decades of biological warfare experimentation carried out over hundreds of cities in the United States and Canada, including Winnipeg. While these biowarfare simulants were said to be "harmless", some of the new genetically-engineered pathogens - particularly mycoplasma and other fungi - are now loose among the general population. This has occurred through vaccinations of Texas prisoners, and inoculations of Gulf War soldiers - many of whom never left the United States.

Many autoimmune diseases have been seen in the wake of the chemtrail spraying - such as chronic fatigue, multiple sclerosis, lupus, once very rare transverse myelitis and meningitis. My researchers and I are also finding that there appears to be a mental-emotional component to this spray that is a disorienting factor. It is a factor that makes people lethargic and mentally confused, with an inability to concentrate and short-term memory loss.


Link to above source...

Hope you guys check it out.


Do you think that aluminum has just now appeared in the ground? Where do you think it comes from?

Oh and "Environmental News Service" severed any relationship with Will Thomas. Will Thomas is one of the inventors of the hoax, and after that, ENS wanted nothing to do with him anymore.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


Well, you've done it. You've convinced me. You've provided sources that use the word geo-engineering several times, and those things they are talking about are pretty scary. I would sure hate if crops could be grown in more places.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by upgrayeddc310t
 


Really, so this is just an idea and not a study on the effects of geo-engineering? I think if you had read it, you would see this is an ongoing study and that this is a reality. I'll attach the link so you can see. Particularly on pg 9 it explains how much was sprayed and the costs using a 747.

Yes, I know that it's sulfur based, as like the effects of a volcano. I also know that it says "other" particulates will be studied. If you think it's only sulfur then I'm sorry.

The altitude varies from 40,000ft to 100,000ft.

theintelhubradio.com...

The report is 86 pages long and in detail. So, I really don't see how it can be denyed but I'm sure some of you will try.

My post has everything to do with the OP's thread. You on the other hand, saying that this is not going on, does not have anything to do with the thread either.

And as far as the last paragraphes, well, read the report. I think they make perfect sense.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


Yes, perhaps if you had supplied the link I could have read the study, but all I was provided with were a few paragraphs which refer to geo-engineering in the fight against global-warming, but which has no relation to "chemtrail theory" besides the fact that both are linked to aircraft spraying things in the sky.

Again, as far as I understand it, chemtrail theory, especially what has been stated in OP's post, is the theory that commercial airliners are dispersing some sort of chemical pollutant (apparently aluminum compounds according to this thread). Meanwhile, what you posted in your previous post spoke of "chemtrails" and geo-engineering in the stratosphere...not the troposphere which, as I already stated, is *NOT where commercial airliners fly.


Please read my other posts in this thread to get some kind of handle on meteorological and aviation factors which cause contrails.

Am I saying that geo-engineering has never been done and is currently not being studied still? No. Am I saying that I do not believe that chemtrails are being sprayed from commercial aircraft? Yes.

Also, I challenge that you don't understand a vast technical majority of what is being reported in the 86 page paper you pasted. I'll admit that some of it is over my head, as I am not a chemist nor a geologist. My wife is a geologist, I will ask her about aluminum in soil when I see her next.

In regards to saying my posts have had nothing to do with OP's thread, you are wrong. I have been trying to provide first-hand knowledge explanations of how what are perceived as "chemtrails" are simply contrails. But it seems to be flying over the head of everybody who already has their beliefs stone-set in their minds.
Thanks. Any questions will be welcome.
edit on 24-6-2011 by upgrayeddc310t because: *refering to the stratosphere



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by upgrayeddc310t
 


I appreciate your knowledge and anything related as well. I am by no means a scientist or expert in these matters but I am educated and science is my primary interest. Sorry I didn't paste the link btw.

As far as what's being sprayed I don't know for sure. But we both know now that something is. I work in the pool industry and for some time now, we are seeing metals in pools at very high PPM, increasing. Also, if you could ask her about barium salts as well. Because barium absorbs radiation and it might be linked.

Also, you said it's only being sprayed in the stratosphere which is correct. I believe it starts 30,000ft and on up.

The stratosphere is a region of intense interactions among radiative, dynamical, and chemical processes, in which horizontal mixing of gaseous components proceeds much more rapidly than vertical mixing.

So, maybe that's why they are spraying barium salts due to this.




posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


Well you have my ears perked up now, if what you say about barium salts is true, about them absorbing radiation. I recently (within the past 2 months) moved to the bay area on the west-coast from the mid-west. I have read a lot about radiation from the Japan disaster affecting the west coast...interesting.

But yeah, I've stated in other posts I wouldn't put it past governmental/military/research planes to test something in the atmosphere as they have done in the past.

Frankly, reading about the melt-through at Fukushima has me leary. An interesting spin you have given me, thanks.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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reply to post by upgrayeddc310t
 


Barium salts don't absorb radiation. Barium preparations are used as contrast material for xrays, because barium is xray opaque (reflects radiation).

A quick google search will show you that the only sources claiming that barium salts absorb radiation are chemtrail perpetuators.

ETA: You'll find that most of the things you "learn" from chemmies has no actual basis in fact.
edit on 6/24/11 by adeclerk because: (no reason given)



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