I believe God just touched me!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Since I guess criticizing the OP in the manner I did was ill-mannered, I'll rephrase it:

Your change of heart based on experience is something which goes against any form of skeptical thought, which makes me believe you were never really a skeptic to begin with.

It's a generally flawed and often stupid way to go about making claims about reality as our human perceptions are incredibly flawed and our brain is capable of playing all sorts of little tricks on us without us knowing it. What you're experiencing is probably something that's well documented with science, yet you're doing the fundamentally irresponsible thing of accepting a claim based on something that is far from meeting the burden of proof.

reply to post by SavedOne

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You may not be a skeptic, but you sure as hell are stupid if you find that to be proof of anything.

Calling someone "stupid" immediately removes all your credibility.

No, it doesn't. We're all stupid to some degree about various things.

If you can't discuss this in a civil manner you don't belong on ATS.

You know, it's not very civil to say that someone has lost all of their credibility...and it's very presumptuous for someone who has been on ATS for nearly three months to say this sort of thing to someone that has nearly 100 times as many posts on the site. I would never say that someone doesn't belong on ATS, even with that sort of history behind me.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I've felt awe and wonder and great feelings washing over me from just examining nature...and they all came from my brain. They all came from me understanding the intricacies of it all. It was all natural, it had no supernatural component.

Your argument contains a fallacy- you are presupposing that those feelings do not have a supernatural component when in fact you cannot prove this.

Which fallacy is it to dismiss claims which lack any evidence? I'm not committing a fallacy, I'm going by the established neurobiological consensus relating to these feelings that have been studied to the point where they built a helmet that can recreate them.

You do not know where those feelings come from.

Well, there are plenty of neurobiologists that have studied them and found that they come from brain meat.

They could indeed have a supernatural component,

Then prove it. Until you have evidence for anything supernatural I have no reason to contemplate the notion.

the fact that you don't believe in God is NOT evidence that He doesn't exist,

Now see, this is an actual fallacy, it's called a straw man. I never said that my lack of belief in any particular deity is evidence against the existence of that deity...unless the deity in question is definitively one believed in by everyone, but that's not the deity we're talking about.

nor is it evidence that your feelings weren't from Him.

Again, another straw man. I've never said that it wasn't. I say that neurobiology is evidence that these feelings are neurochemical in nature and triggered by quite a number of things.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

There are standards. Sure, there are degrees of skepticism, but to say "I was a skeptic" and then be turned to a belief by nothing more than an unverified, untested, personal experience is positively the opposite of any loose definition of skepticism.

You can only define your skepticism and what amounts to evidence for you. Who are you to judge if his personal experience was enough or inefficient to change his mind? I could give the example of Saul of Tarsus who was s skeptic of Christ and the claims of Christians and his personal experience on the road to Damascus changed him immediately.

You can't define anyone's skepticism except your own, you can't "draw the line in the sand' for what others need to meet to turn their skepticism into belief. Why can't you take him at his word? Honestly, is it because of your personal prejudices that you cannot accept his personal reasons for the change?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

What you're experiencing is probably something that's well documented with science, yet you're doing the fundamentally irresponsible thing of accepting a claim based on something that is far from meeting the burden of proof.

Prejudicial arbitrary conjecture.

See my above post.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

No, it doesn't. We're all stupid to some degree about various things.

Then use the word "ignorant of/to". The term you chose is not civil and lacks decorum. I'm the one who alerted staff to it. It wasn't right man. Most people understand that "ignorance" means in regards to a specific thing, but "stupid" in that context refers to a person's mental capacity to learn. It simply was rude, just apologize and move on.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Well, if he meant he was a skeptic of a specific claim, that's one thing, but to claim being a skeptic in general is ridiculous.

And the reason I can't accept his his reasons for his change aren't prejudicial in any way accept towards critical thought. They're silly. I've had all sorts of experiences that, once examined properly, weren't what I thought they were. I'm sure you have too. It's a basic part of the human condition. You think you see someone in your room at night, turns out to be your coat on a chair. Tiny example, but it's a great one.

The fact that we have a 'god helmet' that recreates this exact same sort of feeling makes me incredibly skeptical of the whole experience.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


...how is it arbitrary conjecture to make a claim based on scientifically established facts? I'm not saying to discredit any possibility, I'm asking for investigation prior to reaching a conclusion.

And it's not prejudiced by anything but the facts of neurobiology (well, not the whole set of facts, I'm not neurobiologist, but learning philosophy of mind requires a certain non-technical understanding of scientific consensus).

The first thing that popped into my head when I read the title of the thread was, "was it a good touch or bad touch? Point out where he touched you on this doll."

But seriously, I'm happy for you. I wish something could happen to me that could convince me one way or the other.
I'm on the fence, an Agnostic I suppose.

I hope your life is going better.

Have a good one!

I am not offended so please don't argue about that. I fully understand why people can say that if I was a sceptic then why would this experience change your mind? Well it is very difficult to actually put into words what happened as the feelings I felt I have never felt before and cannot comprehend what I can reference them with. Stupidity comes in many forms but each person has their own strengths, being stupid is not something to be ashamed about as you can still make a posative impact on peoples lives just like anybody else. If we leave this world having left a more posative touch than negative on the people around us then I believe God will have a special place for you even if you didn't believe in him when on this planet.

I think experiences with God are personal and no church can stop you or even facilitate you speaking with God. I believe the Church to be too influenced by humans and their nature, I believe the best relationship with God is direct to God.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Tayesin

 

Originally posted by Tayesin
The thing you experienced was very likely Connection to Nature.. that Feeling is the energy you resonated with only in those moments.

What energy? Do you even know what energy is? It's potential for work! How was a potential for work resonating within me. I'm just ignoring the rest because you started out with pure nonsense and the rest is based on this fundamental nonsense.

Now, if you can tell me exactly what sort of energy this is, be it heat or a spinning fly wheel or whatever other form of energy there is, I'll move on from there.

Hi MIMS,

Firstly, please read this through and try to avoid closing your mind off instantly when you see something that goes against your grain..

You do know science as yet is still in it's infancy, yes?

In which case friend, there are many things we have yet to "discover" using scientific method, so for now it can only be a guide to a better understanding of all things Physical.

The energy I spoke about is a Subtle Energy. It is not related to any physical potential in the common sense, and yet it is something that can be experienced, used, and it's immediate effects noted... but Science cannot detect it.. Yet.

I use a simple method to show people how they can use this energy that is all around them, that courses through them in every moment. We use simple metal "divining rods" as used when finding water, and firstly measure the energy field around the target person.. the rods cross over each other at the precise moment they come into contact with the energy field.

Later we show how thoughts create emeotions and how that effects the energy field, then I step way back and have them "push" their energy out towards me so that the rods cross.. every person has been able to do it easily. They can then easily control the rods from any distance.

Science as yet cannot consider this as a reality because it has no relevant grounds to observe from... and yet it is so easily proven to anyone who takes the time to do it.

I have had great respect for you MIMS, so would hope to see that being offered in return.

Edit to add..

The "God Helmet" you mentioned is an electrical stimulator is it not? In which case it falsely brings on euphoric feelings by trickling a small charge into the brain to fire synapses. Out in nature when we feel this connection there is no helmet, there is no trickle charge forcing a result.. instead there is a natural process when the mind is quiet.

And as you have shown above, your experiences were already considered from the perspective of what you thought it Should be... and I bet the moment you began to Think about it the experience faded out leaving you only with your Thinking processes.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Ok a bit of background info, recently I have been having a bit of a tough time with life in general and things have gotten pretty bad. All of my life I have been ignorant to God and have never considered it as a viable explaination. However recently due to my tough times I have been more spiritual and open to answers and help. So here it is

I went to a quiet spot where no other people were around outside in a serene wooded/garden type area with the only thing in sight being around a thousand rabbits chewing on the grass.I sit on a wooden bench out there and grip my hands together and start thinking thoughts directed at God. I first ask for God's forgivness for all of my sins and the moment I did this a warm fuzzy wrap type feeling curved around my back like having a hug. I then continue and pass this off as probably just my mind creating the feeling. I then ask for Gods help to get me through my troubles for my families sake and thank him for the lessons God has taught me so far. I carry on going through some private thoughts with God and then end the conversation, sit on the back of the bench and spread my arms out lying on the top edge of the back of the bench.

I then look around me and start taking in the beauty of nature around me, I feel my left hand stiffen like somebody has just taken hold to hold hands. At this point I am flabberghasted so I look to see and the feeling evapourates. I then have this feeling that I have just been touched by God and it was just a feeling of calm and knowledge that everything will be alright. I start to gaze back at the sky and again this grip come back accross my hand, this time I didn't want it to stop so I just sat there enjoying it and squeezed my hand slightly to test if it was a genuine feeling, there was resistance like I was holding something. I sat there in this way for a few minutes and then it was over.

Truely spiritually mind blowing, I never thought I would experience something like that in my life. I think from now I am going to take much more time to sit and talk with God as God clearly listens and is there to comfort and help us along our path but only if you allow God into your life.

Guess what, I am no longer a sceptic.

edit on 22-6-2011 by michael1983l because: (no reason given)

Beloved Michael, you felt the touch of the invisible pure Spirit, the Father, through his Only-Begotten Light; your light is kindled, do not allow the wind of the wicked one to blow it out: stay tuned. To strengthen the brilliance of your light, follow the thread "Revelations: The secret of life, as revealed by the Only-Begotten Light."

The truth will continue unravelling from within you: stay focused!

Peace be with you!!!