Muslims do care if you burn the Koran - stop stupidity

Originally posted by benrl
Yes but in the US, we believe in unalienable human rights

Er... no, you don't. Otherwise you wouldn't place restrictions on these ''rights'', nor would you let a bunch of corrupt judges in the SCOTUS tell you how these ''rights'' should be applied.

Exhibit A: ''Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.''

So who ''abridged the freedom of speech'' by making laws against the free expression of slander, obscenity and incitement ?

So, in other words, you believe in ''freedom of speech which is accepted and ratified by our courts'' - not the actual genuine idea of freedom of speech.


Exhibit B: ''A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.''

Where abouts did your founding fathers deny the ''right to bear to bear arms'' to ex-convicts and people who have been diagnosed with mental disorders ?

Again, you don't believe in the right to bear arms, instead, you believe in ''the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, just so long as my government hasn't convicted any of them of a crime, or if some government endorsed dudes haven't diagnosed them with some kind of mental problem''


Unalienable rights, huh ?

Originally posted by benrl
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,"

Here's the thing, though: Thomas Jefferson was a complete scumbag. We're talking about someone who thought that it was acceptable to own other human beings as property. He fathered children by one of his ''slave-girls'', which means that he was also a rapist. He launched genocidal attacks against American Indians.

Quite a character you have as one of your near-deities who you lot secu-worship so much...


Now, aside from my observations about one of your country's slave-owning heroes, I would like to ask a simple question:

What makes Jefferson's, and his cohorts', words so fantastic and life-defining to so many of you Americans ?

I mean, surely - to critical thinkers - the words of some late 18th-early 19th century dudes do not need to be taken as gospel in 2011 ?

What separates those guys' thoughts from other, more rational, thoughts about the application of government in a country, other than yucky sentimentality ?

Originally posted by benrl
Yes thankfully we do have a document here in America that describes these rights, that should always be the bases we go off of.

Oh, here we go again !

You have a document which was written and signed by a handful of guys. You uncritically believe in these ''rights'' because these random dudes wrote out their thoughts at the start of your country's history ?

Words fail me !


Please explain, in logical terms, why any of the ''rights'' outlined in the documents which were at the forefront of your nation's independence should be interpreted as definitive ''rights'' in the modern era.

This is a clear case of secu-worship.

Originally posted by benrl
LMAO people with his views, because elected officials are such great people? Being elected to office is no measure of ones intelligence or morals.

Elected officials aren't always great people, no. But at least they can formulate a less rigid and a more reasonable interpretation of the issue.

In no way was I questioning MOTF's intelligence or morals.

Originally posted by benrl
If i where him Id take it as a compliment that you said that, the day I get elected to public office will have been a day I sold my soul along with most of my convictions and beliefs.

Considering that your convictions and beliefs appear, largely, to be formed by religiously following a 200-year-old piece of parchment, then I don't think that you would be in any danger of being elected - even if you tried.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
My views huh? My views are that things don't need to be overly complicated like they are today. Simple is the way to go. If I some how happened to be in a position of power, we deffinately wouldn't be going down the same raod that we are today.

No, things don't need to be overly complicated, but, by the same token, things certainly don't need to be overly simplified, either.

Referring to the Qu'ran as ''just a book'' - while technically true - is an over-simplification and shows a complete lack of regard for the consequences that your view entails.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
You would be lucky to have someone like me in a position of power.

I'm not so sure about that...

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
What does anything in this entire thread have to do with screaming "fire" in a crowded theater?

It seems quite clear to me.

Is it a crime to falsely shout ''fire'' in a crowded theatre ? If so, then why ?

Falsely shouting ''fire'' isn't a crime. So why the blazes would it be a crime to utilise your free speech and say this in an ''non free speech'' environment ?

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
Im sorry that people can become so offended by the burning of a book, but its a book.

And I reiterate: thank goodness that you are not in a position of power !

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
I believe I'm the one who is being rational here, on the premise that its a goddamned book.

Your comments about it only being a book are, indeed, rational, on a basic level.

Your irrationality on this issue stems from the fact that you are wilfully ignoring the relevance of the book to many people.

I mean, if I decided to urinate on a grave, and dig up the remains inside, then who cares ?

After all, it's only a slab of concrete, and the bones are only maggot-ridden remnants which don't belong to anyone.

That's an example of being overly simplistic, for you.

Originally posted by Thwax

We'll stop when Muslims stop bombing and killing everyone else and burning their holy books.

I have never been bombed or killed by a Muslim. Have you? I do not even have a holy book. This seems like an interesting branch of this conversation but I honestly do not understand what it means.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Grave desicration and book burning is two totally different things. One pertains to a real individual and the other pertains to some mushed up tree bark with ink on it. I guess the guy who wrote the book knew what he was doing when he put the clauses in there. Its sad that a any book full of fairy tales would cause one person to do harm unto another.

MOTF!

reply to post by beezzer


Real freedom : when you feel free to chose which direction to go. for that I should have the power as a human being to go on that way and I shouldn't be worried about the consequences will be made for me. I don't consider it as freedom to chose between A or B. May be I like to make C for myself. ( I consider it mostly about the life style )

Independence of human being : Every one should be looked at as a human being . This system which is enslaving normal people for the elites will fail some day. Individuals should be taught that they should make a move to have a better live. People who do their jobs should be paid fairly all around the world.Then they can make a house of their own without taking loans and being indebted till the end of their lives.

Easy access for true information : Governments will not have to be at war with each other and then there will be no Info-war , keeping people uninformed strategies or let them be ignorant strategies. No one should be attacked in his\her house because of his Internet activities.

May be we can not reach the point in one they , but I think respecting each other will make TPTB fail.
One of it's main tactics is divide and conquer tactic.

In Islam they have made a branch called " Wahhabi " . It is not more than 300 years old . Their mission is to kill other people who believe in Shiite branch of Islam.

They say , if you kill 7 Shiite followers your prize is heaven . There is no need to praise god any more ....

Conclusion :
TPTB is making us divided and we should be united ( or we should stop attacking each other ) to make them fail.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

 

Grave desicration and book burning is two totally different things. One pertains to a real individual and the other pertains to some mushed up tree bark with ink on it. I guess the guy who wrote the book knew what he was doing when he put the clauses in there. Its sad that a any book full of fairy tales would cause one person to do harm unto another.

MOTF!

These fairy tails make me think before I act. They teach me great lessons . One of them is , There will be no power that will be.He has the ultimate power.

Reading this story of Mose learns me this :
MOSES SAID:ِ ``NOT SO! MY LORD IS WITH ME. SOON WILL HE GUIDE ME.''
WE THEN INSPIRED MOSES TO STRIKE THE SEA WITH YOUR STICK. THEN IT CLEAVED; (A PATH ACROSS THE SEA WAS MADE) AND EACH PART OF THE SEA BECAME LIKE A GREAT, HUGE MOUNTAIN!
AND THERE WE BROUGHT (IN THE CLEAVAGE) THE OTHERS TOO. (i.e. PHARAOH AND HIS HOSTS)
AND WE SAVED MOSES AND WHOEVER WAS WITH HIM, ALL TOGETHER.
AFTER THAT WE DROWNED THE OTHERS.

Another lesson : Satan is a great enemy of Human being referring this , this learns me which words to chose to speak :

WHEN THE MATTER IS JUDGED, (AND THE DECREE IS ISSUED) SATAN WILL SAY:ِ ``ALLAH PROMISED YOU A PROMISE OF TRUTH AND I PROMISED YOU TOO, BUT I FAILED YOU MY PROMISE; AND I HAD NO AUTHORITY (POWER) OVER YOU. I ONLY CALLED YOU AND YOU ANSWERED ME. SO DO NOT BLAME ME, AND BLAME YOURSELVES. I AM NOT YOUR RESCUER AND NEITHER YOU ARE MY RESCUER. I HAVE DISBELIEVED IN YOUR ASSOCIATING ME WITH ALLAH FROM BEFORE.'' VERILY FOR THE OPPRESSORS THERE IS A PAINFUL PUNISHMENT.

reply to post by hmdphantom


Ok so, basicaly, be scared and live your life the way the book says or some magical hand will come down and smack you? Ok i got it. I do appreciate that a book can make people want to live right. That is awesome. I also know that many, many people deeply care for the words in the book. I guess some people need to be guided. Some do not. BUT at the end of the day it is still a book. The words in the book are the exact same in countless other copies of said book. Whats the point in going crazy when someone sees one being burned? Why not just get a new copy and let people do what they want. Its not affecting you. Is it your personal autographed copy or something? I just dont get it.

MOTF!

reply to post by WhatTheToast


Funny, out of the 5 billion other people who aren't Muslims, I doubt all of them bomb and burn Muslim books.

reply to post by hmdphantom


If a person can burn the American Flag,or wear it a underwear,then they can burn a book...ANY book...free speech and all that....Id burn one if I had one and a lighter,just for kicks

If someone burns your holy book; walk it off and grow some dam skin.

This conversation is extremely disturbing. The fact that there are people who are willing to kill for a book is proof enough that their religion is the problem. Nothing else need to be discussed. If your religion has you so wound up that you'd murder someone because they burned a book, you are a seriously disturbed individual. That book has brainwashed you into a murdering psychopath.

reply to post by Pervius


so have read the bible and the qu'ran?

reply to post by hmdphantom


burning books is a sad thing, unless one must to stay alive through a harsh cold night. burning any religious text is offensive to those who value the content. common sense should dictate this is poor behavior.

here in this thread & on lots of sites on the 'net hating religion is a popular thing to do. 'live and let live' is an old saying that needs to be revived. to treat others with contempt because their thoughts or beliefs are different than our own is childish, selfish behavior at best. it reflects poorly on that person, their upbringing and education, as well as their humanity.

I'll tell you what: when they stop being so crazy that some nobody simply burning a Q'uran will cause half the Middle East to break out in riots and cause several terrorist attacks, then maybe we can get somewhere.

It's like me calling you a name, and then you turn around and drown a whole bag of kitten and then say, "See what you made me do?"

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
I'll tell you what: when they stop being so crazy that some nobody simply burning a Q'uran will cause half the Middle East to break out in riots and cause several terrorist attacks, then maybe we can get somewhere.

It's like me calling you a name, and then you turn around and drown a whole bag of kitten and then say, "See what you made me do?"

This is about as close to the truth as you can get. Except that they actually intended to kill the kittens anyway just because they were kittens. They only wanted you to think that they cared.

reply to post by hmdphantom


What a blinkered view of the world you have, although not all moslems are to blame for the bad press they recieve.
Can you not see how offensive your actions as a group are:

Does burning a book purchsed from a book store compare with the outrageous deeds carried out in the name of islam - beheadings, bombings, death threats, womens rights, human rights, stonings, mutilations, suicide bombings, abuse of children - the list goes on.




Fortunately I am not goverened by a need to pray to a higher being, I always thought all religeons were just a way of controlling the masses. If I am wrong I may end up to my neck in a lake of burning sulphur for all eternity but I will have made that choice.

I think you need to drag yourself out of the stone age along with all the other good moderate moslems and condemn the minority of extremists, only then will a mutual respect be reached.

I think I'll buy a shredder !!

Originally posted by hmdphantom
The stupid people who give them the reason to do more terrorist act.

That is it in a nutshell, isn't it. The difference is what we consider stupid.

For instance, drawing muhammod received global condemnation by Islam, calling for death and causing riots and vandalism in places so far away from Denmark that it beggars belief.

In other words, draw your prophet and islam calls for death.

Yet....



I might piss off the idiots in the westboro baptist cult, but I'd bet most Christians would pray for me.

Difference... ?

One I can see at any rate...

reply to post by Thwax


and I thought ATS was filled with intellectuals. By the amount of stars you got, it seems ATS is filled with FOX news viewers (Sorry for generalization, but seriously).

Your claim resembles a retard who never stopped insulting me, when I asked why won't you stop insulting me, he said because your brother is a douche therefore when your brother stops being a douche, I'll stop insulting you.

So I had couple of options available to deal with this retard. Either insult him for insulting me due to my brother's behaviour, or tell my brother to stop being a douche bag, or tell the retard that my brother's behaviour doesn't represent me, just like your brother's behaviour doesn't represent you, or just ignore him (which is impossible at times).

It seems none of the options were accepted by the retard except the ignore one. First I asked my brother to stop being a douche bag, and I told the retard that I told my brother to stop insulting you. He said that's not good enough, he is still insulting me. That didn't work. Second I told him my brother's behaviour doesn't represent me, he didn't take that too, he said yes it does, you're his brother, from the same family, therefore you must be exactly like him, even though you claim not to be, you are hiding your true feelings inside, you want to insult me just like him. So that didn't work. Third I began insulting him, last resort really, but when you push them against the wall, they will most likely either move to the next level (violence), or go on the defence mode and stop attacking you with insults.

So when I told the retard that he is a rapist, because his brother was convicted for rape and still serves time in prison, he started defending himself, he had couple of options of his own to choose from. Either turn violent, or say his brother's actions/behaviour doesn't represent him, or tell his brother to don't rape again, or insult me back, or ignore me and continue insulting me at the same... (sounds crazy right?)

It is a cycle, so ATS is going to allow such posts to be published, which doesn't represent anything but a troll, and does nothing but create a cycle of either insults, or off-topic stupidity. I thought trolling was against ATS rules.

That being said, Muslims are very sensitive about their holy book, which they believe holds GOD's words. Just because you don't believe in that, doesn't mean you should act like little kids.

Those who are adults should advise their Conrad to stop throwing insults, those in the Muslim side who are adults should advise their Conrad not to pay any attention. Let them indulge in stupidity. Let them waste their time in insults, do you think they will gain anything from insults? The only time when they will gain anything from insults is when you react, this is a reactionary measure, to make you look like a fool.

I know it is hard sometimes to avoid and ignore such insults, but doesn't Allah says in the Quran to be patient? It has been mentioned approximately 90 times in the Quran, one of the verses says:

“O you who believe! Seek help in patience and prayer. Truly! Allah is with the patient.” (Verse 153) Surat Al-Baqarah.

And what did prophet Mohammad say about patience?:

“It is better for you to mix yourself around people who may harm you, and to be patient with them, then it is to isolate yourself from them, and to not practice patience from their harm.”

Originally posted by confreak
reply to post by Thwax

 

and I thought ATS was filled with intellectuals. By the amount of stars you got, it seems ATS is filled with FOX news viewers (Sorry for generalization, but seriously).

Your claim resembles a retard who never stopped insulting me, when I asked why won't you stop insulting me, he said because your brother is a douche therefore when your brother stops being a douche, I'll stop insulting you.

So I had couple of options available to deal with this retard. Either insult him for insulting me due to my brother's behaviour, or tell my brother to stop being a douche bag, or tell the retard that my brother's behaviour doesn't represent me, just like your brother's behaviour doesn't represent you, or just ignore him (which is impossible at times).

It seems none of the options were accepted by the retard except the ignore one. First I asked my brother to stop being a douche bag, and I told the retard that I told my brother to stop insulting you. He said that's not good enough, he is still insulting me. That didn't work. Second I told him my brother's behaviour doesn't represent me, he didn't take that too, he said yes it does, you're his brother, from the same family, therefore you must be exactly like him, even though you claim not to be, you are hiding your true feelings inside, you want to insult me just like him. So that didn't work. Third I began insulting him, last resort really, but when you push them against the wall, they will most likely either move to the next level (violence), or go on the defence mode and stop attacking you with insults.

So when I told the retard that he is a rapist, because his brother was convicted for rape and still serves time in prison, he started defending himself, he had couple of options of his own to choose from. Either turn violent, or say his brother's actions/behaviour doesn't represent him, or tell his brother to don't rape again, or insult me back, or ignore me and continue insulting me at the same... (sounds crazy right?)

It is a cycle, so ATS is going to allow such posts to be published, which doesn't represent anything but a troll, and does nothing but create a cycle of either insults, or off-topic stupidity. I thought trolling was against ATS rules.

That being said, Muslims are very sensitive about their holy book, which they believe holds GOD's words. Just because you don't believe in that, doesn't mean you should act like little kids.

Those who are adults should advise their Conrad to stop throwing insults, those in the Muslim side who are adults should advise their Conrad not to pay any attention. Let them indulge in stupidity. Let them waste their time in insults, do you think they will gain anything from insults? The only time when they will gain anything from insults is when you react, this is a reactionary measure, to make you look like a fool.

I know it is hard sometimes to avoid and ignore such insults, but doesn't Allah says in the Quran to be patient? It has been mentioned approximately 90 times in the Quran, one of the verses says:

“O you who believe! Seek help in patience and prayer. Truly! Allah is with the patient.” (Verse 153) Surat Al-Baqarah.

And what did prophet Mohammad say about patience?:

“It is better for you to mix yourself around people who may harm you, and to be patient with them, then it is to isolate yourself from them, and to not practice patience from their harm.”

edit on 23-6-2011 by confreak because: (no reason given)

So, because I dislike Islam and Muslims, I am a retard? If anyone needed any more proof about how out of touch Liberals are, talk to this guy.

reply to post by Thwax


See, just like I said in my post, you are being defensive. I never called you a retard, I was talking about an actual incident in this side of the world which happened between me, my brother and an individual 2 blocks away.

I hope you understand why I won't reply to you again, because just admitted you are a bigot.