Why you SHOULD NOT support LulzSec

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by Greensage

 

All Hacking is Bad Hacking!

What if you forgot the password to your email and Google wouldn't help you get it back, so you give a hacker ``permission`` to get it for you. Would you still consider the hacking he did as a bad thing?

And let us not forget. Businesses actually pay whitehat hackers to do security tests on websites/software. How do you think they learnt hacking? There are many perfectly legit ways to learn hacking. Anomalously cracking systems for the thrill or education of it is probably a more greyhat type of hacking though...I still see nothing wrong with it for the most part.

edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

I really hope someone is watching you closely.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Anonymous is a little different, they seem to have some genuine ideals, real tactical strategies are often a part of their attacks. But they probably been infiltrated somewhere along the line recently. I do believe they started off as true freedom fighters though.

edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: woah, spelling

yeah, genuine ideals like hacking a childs "no profanity" website and the Epilepsy Foundation website.... among other tactical strategies...

No Cussing Club In January 2009 members of Anonymous targeted California teen McKay Hatch who runs the No Cussing Club, a website against profanity.[62][63] As Hatch's home address, phone number, and other personal information were leaked on-line, his family has received a lot of hate mail, lots of obscene phone calls, and even bogus pizza and pornography deliveries.[64]

Scroll down to activities en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by gabby2011


What on earth are you babbling on about?

Do you even understand the history of coding and security and such?

Or are you parroting whatever shock / horror media story you've just read.

Originally posted by Advantage

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Anonymous is a little different, they seem to have some genuine ideals, real tactical strategies are often a part of their attacks. But they probably been infiltrated somewhere along the line recently. I do believe they started off as true freedom fighters though.

edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: woah, spelling

yeah, genuine ideals like hacking a childs "no profanity" website and the Epilepsy Foundation website.... among other tactical strategies...

No Cussing Club In January 2009 members of Anonymous targeted California teen McKay Hatch who runs the No Cussing Club, a website against profanity.[62][63] As Hatch's home address, phone number, and other personal information were leaked on-line, his family has received a lot of hate mail, lots of obscene phone calls, and even bogus pizza and pornography deliveries.[64]

Scroll down to activities en.wikipedia.org...

I'd advise YOU to read your own links before attempting to justify your side of the arguement.

Allow me to quote from YOUR link.

The report attributes the attack to a group named "The Internet Hate Machine" (a reference to the KTTV Fox 11 news report), who claim to be part of Anonymous, but are not the same faction that are involved in the campaign against Scientology.[58] Some Anonymous participants of Project Chanology suggest that the perpetrators are Internet users who merely remained anonymous in the literal sense, and thus had no affiliation with the larger anti-Scientology efforts attributed to Anonymous.

During an interview with CNN, Scientologist Tommy Davis accused Anonymous of hacking into the Epilepsy Foundation website to make it display imagery intended to cause epileptic seizures. Interviewer John Roberts contended the FBI said that it "found nothing to connect this group Anonymous (with these actions)," and that it also has "no reason to believe that these charges will be leveled against this group."

And the attack on the profanity site was a statement about allowing under-age children onto the internet in the first place, as well as a censorship statement.

Wikipedia is not a concrete source.

Next?

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


S&F

stand your ground

exposing Evil is not evil.

yes and lulzsec et al are not helping

think about it, if they were truly defenders of human liberty then why don't they target/hack/expose any politician that wants to mess around with human and civil rights or place more chains restrictions on people or the net?


example some politician wants to put more monitoring on the web allowing the government to spy on you in your home, 24 hrs later evidence of crimes and or corruption is revealed on the web exposing said politician, ending it's career, and perhaps even jail time.

or why haven't they insured that organizations like Monsteranto go the way of the dinosaur? hmmmm?

in the end it's about accountability, sort of like the pen is mightier than the sword.

also notice how man behind the mask says nothing about:

government SANCTIONED hackers.

reply to post by Greensage


that is correct

it's called Penetration-Testing.

lol does have a sort of naughty ring to it

Originally posted by mr-lizard
reply to post by gabby2011

 

What on earth are you babbling on about?

Do you even understand the history of coding and security and such?

Or are you parroting whatever shock / horror media story you've just read.

No I don't understand history of coding and such, I just think its criminal behavior to hack into peoples systems,even if it is just to see how it works ,unless they have asked you to. period.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Yeah, I got your u2u, sorry I posted the incorrect link.WHy this called for a u2u I will never know. Im sure this troubles you greatly, but I had it bookmarked and the text under activities reads

" Activities The activities in this section were attributed to Anonymous either by their perpetrators or in the media. The actions taken by Anonymous do not seem to follow any single shared agenda. Those identifying with the term often take action simply for amusement. This is known within sites affiliated with Anonymous as "doing it for the lulz."

then

No Cussing Club In January 2009 members of Anonymous targeted California teen McKay Hatch who runs the No Cussing Club, a website against profanity.[62][63] As Hatch's home address, phone number, and other personal information were leaked on-line, his family has received a lot of hate mail, lots of obscene phone calls, and even bogus pizza and pornography deliveries.[64]

. Anonymous isnt a white knight... my opinion. SInce they are Legion, you can not tell anyone what they have or have not done because they have no manifesto and no organization... remember? But wait, then an anonymous spokes person made a manifesto and open letter.. posted here in ATS. Gee.. they are so confused about themselves.

Youve been here long enough... you should also know that the anons here on ATS also discussed the actions on the kid and defended them due to the kid being against "freedom of speech". The things that were claimed by anonymous members and then denied are pretty plentiful because there is no consensus on who they attack or harass. Im pretty sure you can find the link, since youre a master link searcher.

Here's a bunch of em in case you get bored. It may prevent you from sending unwanted and unnecessary u2us.

www.google.com...=psy&hl=en&client=ubuntu&hs=rPF&channel=fs&sou rce=hp&q=anonymous+McKay+hatch&aq=f&aqi=g-b1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=905e9081899b75b1&biw=1366&bih=564

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Greensage

 

that is correct

it's called Penetration-Testing.

lol does have a sort of naughty ring to it

All right, I had to rebuild the software stack on a very expensive machine (and it took a lot of pain because of complexity) -- after I lost it to malware. And recently, my data was stolen from Sony. I had bad experience with ID theft in the past, don't know how this one goes.

To me, all the malfaesants who do this bull# to people and corporations are criminals, plain and simple, the harm is very real, and -- I think they should be put into a real penitentiary (not some community service crap) for addition penetration-testing. What they did to my property was not consensual anyhow.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Anonymous Avatar

 

Them and Anonymous are both obvious stooges of the Government to end Internet Freedom.

Anonymous is a little different, they seem to have some genuine ideals, real tactical strategies are often a part of their attacks. But they probably been infiltrated somewhere along the line recently. I do believe they started off as true freedom fighters though.

I am sure they and Julian Assange all party together with the money that we give them through the CIA.

Personally, I'm still very skeptical about the whole Wikileaks-CIA thing. I don't know honestly, but they have released a lot of good information worth my support.

edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: woah, spelling

I honestly do not think Wikileaks have released "lots of good information"...Sorry but, we were promised ground-breaking, revolutionary information from Wikileaks, but so far, nothing that has been released has been something worthy of true global attention.

Yeah, like you I am very skeptical about Wikileaks...It does sound possible that all these "hacker" groups are just in cahoots with the Gvernment, to "create internet havoc" in order to distort the views on Internet Freedom...Also taking into consideration that Mr. Assange himself is a very good hacker.
Just my 2 cents though.

reply to post by buddhasystem


my 1st pc was a Pentium 3 with 64 mb of ram and i was on dial up so i didn't use an anti virus cause it slowed it down to a crawl so if i even suspected i had a virus or malware i'd boot from a floppy and restore from an image in less than ten minutes. i kept and still keep my data on a separate HDD[s]

there are crooks and thieves everywhere, one takes precautions.

if i were visiting you [or just passing through] and i showed you
how easy it would be to pop the locks on your door with a bobby pin,what would you do?

call the cops and have me arrested?

or get new locks?

neither OP or myself are condoning destructive acts or theft.

you have the NHC case, lot's of valuable data on patients in there, would you rather their security holes not be exposed, forcing them to get off their lazy asses and fix them, or should those holes have been left there leaving the system vulnerable to black hats.

how much do you think a pharmaceutical or insurance corp would pay for that data?

as for hacktivism, why not, if the targets are governments or corps that are committing abuses?

surely you're not gonna argue that we should play by the rules when we know that the game is rigged
and when "the house" is constantly and arbitrarily changing the rules to it's benefit.

or that the only legitimate hackers have government clearance/ license.

instead of letting your bad experience frustrate you, use it as a valuable lesson, and take all the necessary steps to prevent a repeat.

Backup Backup Backup and use encryption, especially if you are referring to your job:

It's your responsibility really, if you are not careful,and do not keep up, you could very well lose that job.

HELLO!!!!

Anonymous has been around for a few thousand years you know, quite a prolific author, don't you know.

Anonymous is a concept, or think of it as a mask, any one could be hiding behind it.

even intelligence agencies seeking to justify more privacy invasion by the powers they are working for.

stupid script-kiddies,

corporate sponsored hackers,

or YOU,

or ME.

as OP has stated multiple times it is by their actions and their consequences that one should be judging.


consider this:

just imagine if somebody hadn't done some hacking,
and published some private e-mails,
you could all very well be paying carbon taxes by now.

if some nosy reporters had minded their own business, how many injustices would have gone unreported.


welcome to the 21st century folks, where only a fool would oppose an entrenched power, that has no compunction in having you or your whole family "have an accident" in order to keep it's depredations secret, directly and in the open, when if you have the knowledge and skill, the mask of Anonymous, a strict control of your own ego, and some leverage, you too can crush the powerful.

sheeesh, i suppose some would argue that David was a cheater because he didn't go up against Goliath with a sword an instead used a sling.

remember this as well:
national security is merely a euphemism for "their" security.

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

my 1st pc was a Pentium 3 with 64 mb of ram and i was on dial up so i didn't use an anti virus cause it slowed it down to a crawl so if i even suspected i had a virus or malware i'd boot from a floppy and restore from an image in less than ten minutes. i kept and still keep my data on a separate HDD[s]

there are crooks and thieves everywhere, one takes precautions.

Who told you I wasn't taking precautions?

if i were visiting you [or just passing through] and i showed you
how easy it would be to pop the locks on your door with a bobby pin,what would you do?

call the cops and have me arrested?

If I gave you permission to mess with my lock, which I might, I wouldn't call the cops. If you just "visited" without my consent, you bet I would. It's quite staggering that you don't see the difference.

neither OP or myself are condoning destructive acts or theft.

Then we are mostly in agreement. Someone messes with my systems, steals my account info from Sony etc -- lock them up for Penetration Testing.

you have the NHC case, lot's of valuable data on patients in there, would you rather their security holes not be exposed, forcing them to get off their lazy asses and fix them, or should those holes have been left there leaving the system vulnerable to black hats.

Puh-leeze... There are many no nonsense threats there already, they don't need to mess up Sony to make that point. Any perimeter is constantly under pressure already, just ask security experts who deal with it.

as for hacktivism, why not, if the targets are governments or corps that are committing abuses?

Because I don't trust hacktivism to make a good judgement. You think there are abuses? Call ACLU and volunteer and stuff, and take it to court. Don't burn corporate cars or deface their web sites, that's just bollocks.

surely you're not gonna argue that we should play by the rules when we know that the game is rigged

The fact that there are injustices in the world does not make into an @sshole (or so I hope). Other people's mileage may vary.

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


your continued defense of illegal activity makes me wonder what youre capable of and what your willing to do under your delusional pretense that you can justify ANYTHING because you dont want to see it for exactly what it is....

What do I have to hide? hmm my social, my credit cards, my bank information, you know........the normal crap people dont want others getting a hold of and exploiting.......


Then again........maybe I have roses growin over what youd find.......

Hows that treat ya?

reply to post by mr-lizard

Did you know the NHS was recently hacked, but the hackers (instead of acting evil and 'bad') they reported the exploit to the owners and thus saved them possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds in dealing with a security breach.

I did not know this, however, I did take the time to read about it just now. They, LulzSec, or Ninja-what-ever, did not get "honors" for this action as they only twittered the info in a "supposed" attempt to help, which was more a publicity stunt in trying to gain attention and possibly fame. Not one individual stepped forward because otherwise they would have been "awarded" a pair of silver bracelets! (Handcuffs to you if you cannot understand that part!)

Seriously, I am glad you feel that these hackers did something of an Honorable nature, but had they been identified they would be doing "time" behind bars! I kid you not!

Did they save NHS money, No, because nothing was compromised, so that is also a misleading statement!

Yeah you just stick to your vague interests and strong opinions, and i'll stick to the facts.

Your credibility for Facts has just been shot down! How is that for vague! I dare say!

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Greensage

 

that is correct

it's called Penetration-Testing.

lol does have a sort of naughty ring to it

What are you talking about? What is correct? and what does Penetration-testing have to do with anything I have said?

There is not a single instance in history where crime has helped to revolutionize a system to the positive. All these people do is give the Goverment more reasons to regulate the Internet instead of keeping it free.

I'm convinced they are MI5 led.

I make my decision about whether or not to support them based on my assumption of that, nothing more.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


or bodies under the floor board?

your continued defense of "The Law" makes me wonder what you are capable of,
in your slavish servility towards those that write them, usually for their own benefit. and or perhaps yours?

The Most Dangerous Man to Any Government

"All government, in its essence, is a conspiracy against the superior man: its one permanent object is to oppress him and cripple him. If it be aristocratic in organization, then it seeks to protect the man who is superior only in law against the man who is superior in fact; if it be democratic, then it seeks to protect the man who is inferior in every way against both. One of its primary functions is to regiment men by force, to make them as much alike as possible and as dependent upon one another as possible, to search out and combat originality among them. All it can see in an original idea is potential change, and hence an invasion of its prerogatives. The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and taboos. Almost inevitably he comes to the conclusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable, and so, if he is romantic, he tries to change it. And even if he is not romantic personally he is very apt to spread discontent among those who are." - H.L. Mencken

powerofnarrative.blogspot.com...

The law is not some Platonic Form plucked from the skies by the Pure in Heart. Laws are written by men, men who have particular interests, particular constituencies, particular donors, and particular friends. (The same is now true of women as well, of course. But for most of our history, it was men and only men. Straight, white men, to be precise; see here and here.) Laws are the particular means by which the state implements and executes its vast powers. When an increasingly authoritarian state passes a certain critical point in its development, the law is no longer the protector of individual rights and individual liberty. The law becomes the weapon of the state itself -- to protect, not you, but the state from threats to its own powers. We passed that critical point some decades ago. The law is the means by which the state corrals its subjects, keeps them under control, and forbids them from acting in ways that the overlords might perceive as threatening. In brief, today, in these glorious United States, the law is not your friend.

rattle your chains all you want slave,

just don't try to impose your small bourgeois morality on others.

i have no moral obligation towards my fellow humans, save to not initiate the use of force against them, or to defraud them.

if the government or a corporation were hiding tech/knowledge that could save lives or bring complete independence to human beings for it's own small minded and selfish reasons,

then yes, hack away.

All knowledge is power.
Those who know more than everyone else are more powerful than everyone else.
If you turn your back on knowledge, you doom yourself to slavery at the hands of those who know.

keep bending over,
just don't expect others to
or try to force them to.


illegal?
pathetic.

king oreo declared himself god the other day, with the power of life and death over anybody for any reason. go on and kiss his ring,

and i'm not talking about the one on his finger.

reply to post by Greensage

um read your own post?

Penetration_test

don't let the filthy minded responses by some here confuse you , your smarter than that.

its a legitimate profession:

Penetration testing