Why you SHOULD NOT support LulzSec

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posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 




You bypass and/or force your way through securities to get to whats behind them......
Yeah, but a criminal breaks into your house to steal valuable items. Hackers who do that are criminals. But a hacker who breaks in for the sheer thrill and educational benefits might just look at some code, learn from it, and then leave the system alone, without stealing anything.

EDIT: They probably would copy the code, but only for personal use.


I'm not sure if this has been asked yet. Haven't read through all the replies. but...

So you're ok with it if some random hacker you don't know hacks into all your personal data: Banks accounts, Facebook settings you have set to private, Email PMs etc etc etc without your permission because you see it as harmless thrill seeking?


EDIT: I guess it's a bit like breaking into your house and reading your diary, and perhaps even making a copy of your diary. But a computer isn't a living space for people


Yes it's not a living space but still maybe you should upgrade your view of the modern world.
edit on 22-6-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:06 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 




Youre right, a computer isnt a living space for people, many times its much much worse, because there is bank account information, credit card information, social security information, and many times information thats much much more important then the big screen in the living room.......
Yes, but a malicious hacker would steal it and use/sell that info, where as another hacker who informs the owners how they cracked the system, may have stopped other malicious hackers from finding that information by using the vulnerability that will now be fixed thanks to anonymous hacker boy.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by Greensage
 



All Hacking is Bad Hacking!

What if you forgot the password to your email and Google wouldn't help you get it back, so you give a hacker ``permission`` to get it for you. Would you still consider the hacking he did as a bad thing?



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 




And even if you say "they are just goign to copy the code for themselves"

Thats theft of property that wasnt given to them.......so yes.......breaking and entering, AND theft.....
They made a copy. Would you be angry if someone came into your house and "stole" a copy of your television? You may be mad they broken into the private sanctuary you call home, but as I said, a computer isn't a living space for a living being.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 




Youre right, a computer isnt a living space for people, many times its much much worse, because there is bank account information, credit card information, social security information, and many times information thats much much more important then the big screen in the living room.......
Yes, but a malicious hacker would steal it and use/sell that info, where as another hacker who informs the owners how they cracked the system, may have stopped other malicious hackers from finding that information by using the vulnerability that will now be fixed thanks to anonymous hacker boy.

That's the truth. Most hackers are the good guys that keep our computers and gaming systems, websites, etc safe. Without them, hackers like ``LulzSec`` would rule the interwebs.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by Greensage
 



All Hacking is Bad Hacking!

What if you forgot the password to your email and Google wouldn't help you get it back, so you give a hacker ``permission`` to get it for you. Would you still consider the hacking he did as a bad thing?
And let us not forget. Businesses actually pay whitehat hackers to do security tests on websites/software. How do you think they learnt hacking? There are many perfectly legit ways to learn hacking. Anomalously cracking systems for the thrill or education of it is probably a more greyhat type of hacking though...I still see nothing wrong with it for the most part.
edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Greensage
 


All hacking is bad hacking? Wrong. Hackers were originally people that would test security systems and alert companies of their flawed security measures. They do still exist today. The term hacker has been dragged in the dirt a bit lately.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 




And even if you say "they are just goign to copy the code for themselves"

Thats theft of property that wasnt given to them.......so yes.......breaking and entering, AND theft.....
They made a copy. Would you be angry if someone came into your house and "stole" a copy of your television? You may be mad they broken into the private sanctuary you call home, but as I said, a computer isn't a living space for a living being.


YES , they broke into my house.........they werent invited........



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


One or the other Lulz or anon is world government....

They are trying to be another hacker group and " work together" to try and infiltrate and capture the real hackers.

They are imposters...and the hackers who work for the gov...

not sure which is false though.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by Greensage
 


All hacking is bad hacking? Wrong. Hackers were originally people that would test security systems and alert companies of their flawed security measures. They do still exist today. The term hacker has been dragged in the dirt a bit lately.


I am quite positive that if there were a position in a legitimate company their title would not be "Hacker"!


If you do this for a living then I am sure you are not called "Hackers-R-Us" otherwise your clientele base might also be questionable!
edit on 6/22/2011 by Greensage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by Greensage

Originally posted by Swizzy
reply to post by Greensage
 


All hacking is bad hacking? Wrong. Hackers were originally people that would test security systems and alert companies of their flawed security measures. They do still exist today. The term hacker has been dragged in the dirt a bit lately.


I am quite positive that if there were a position in a legitimate company their title would not be "Hacker"!

Correct. They are called an "ethical hacker" or "whitehat hacker". Sometimes they just like to be called a systems security technician/analyst or something like that, but in reality they are being paid to hack under safe/legal conditions.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


So if I call a company I should ask for their "ethical Hacker" LOL


The fact remains, the word "hacker" denotes illegal activity and no amount of word-play is going to make anyone see a hacker for anything less than that. Security Specialists under IT positions are not called "hackers"!



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


And I yawned through that strawman argument. People want to be left alone as they hide from responsibilities they have to the world behind their games, behind their music, behind their website favorites. They don't want to see that they have given their responsibility over to the government, therefore all the mass outrage as to them creeping in their space so they can no longer hide from responsibility.

You are the messenger of the ones not wanting to take responsibility, and you can't see that blinded by your rage. *shakes head* this forum just regurgitates things over and over again thinking the world are full of sheep, when you should look inside yourself to see who the real sheep are.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by Greensage
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


So if I call a company I should ask for their "ethical Hacker" LOL

Ummm, yes, you could do that. I can't see why it's so funny. You clearly have a total misunderstanding of the definition of hacker. All you understand it as is what you got from common everyday mainstream usage, you don't understand the technical meaning.


The Certified Ethical Hacker (C|EH) is a professional certification provided by the International Council of E-Commerce Consultants (EC-Council.)

An Ethical Hacker is one name given to a Penetration Tester. An ethical hacker is usually employed by an organization who trusts him or her to attempt to penetrate networks and/or computer systems, using the same methods as a hacker, for the purpose of finding and fixing computer security vulnerabilities. Illegal hacking (i.e.; gaining unauthorized access to computer systems) is a crime in most countries, but penetration testing done by request of the owner of the targeted system(s) or network(s) is not.

secure.wikimedia.org...



The term "white hat" in Internet slang refers to an ethical hacker, or a computer security expert, who specializes in penetration testing and in other testing methodologies to ensure the security of an organization's information systems.[1] Ethical Hacking is a term coined by IBM meant to imply a broader category than just penetration testing.[2] White-hat hackers are also called "sneakers",[3] red teams, or tiger teams.[4]

secure.wikimedia.org...



Information Security Training: Ethical Hacking and Countermeasures / Penetration Testing

The CEH Program certifies individuals in the specific network security discipline of Ethical Hacking from a vendor-neutral perspective. The Certified Ethical Hacker certification will fortify the application knowledge of security officers, auditors, security professionals, site administrators, and anyone who is concerned about the integrity of the network infrastructure. A Certified Ethical Hacker is a skilled professional who understands and knows how to look for the weaknesses and vulnerabilities in target systems and uses the same knowledge and tools as a malicious hacker.

www.eccouncil.org...



Ethical hacking for professionals, by professionals. We help you implement true network security solutions through external penetration testing, wireless security testing, VoIP security audits, design reviews, server hardening, and SCADA testing.

www.purehacking.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by OneLife
 




You are the messenger of the ones not wanting to take responsibility, and you can't see that blinded by your rage.
No...I am a messenger pointing out obvious reasons LulzSec don't deserve support. You haven't provided an argument why their actions deserve our support. I completely agree that people in this world don't care enough about relevant topics, and they are constantly distracted irrelevant things, resulting in an entranced populace that becomes very easy to manipulate. I do even support "hacktivism" of the beneficial type, as I have made pretty clear. But what I don't support is senseless hacking that gives strong backing for internet regulation, and I have no idea how you can justify it.

edit on 22-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


lol, your never ending defense of the system/oligarchy makes one wonder what you've got to hide

and as usual you are continue comparing apples and oranges,
and confusing milk with magnesia.


as usual you act morally superior but you are only morally superior in bizzarro world
and in your own mind

get a clue not everybody wants to be a slave.
or is resigned to shrugging, saying " you can't fight the government", and applying lubricant.

and here's a news flash: everything on government computers was paid for by the taxpayers
why wait 50 or 60 yrs before the government reveals/hands out any tech or valuable data to a corp. or private group to use as a meal ticket.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Greensage
 


um no sage

any and all tech/data being kept secret by governments was not paid by private investors but taxpayers
i mean who's the boss here the people or those who subscribe to the oligarchic principal in this country?



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Greensage
Did I catch that correctly? You say these hackers cast a bad light on other hackers? As if some hacking is above other hacking!

Hacking is hacking and it doesn't matter what kind it entails, it is criminal in the intent of "Breaking and Entering".

All Hacking is Bad Hacking!

To get to the truth of the matter we don't need hackers we need those who can see beyond the "self" and step-up and admit the wrong-doings that surrounds them!


get real.

Did you know the NHS was recently hacked, but the hackers (instead of acting evil and 'bad') they reported the exploit to the owners and thus saved them possibly hundreds of thousands of pounds in dealing with a security breach.

Yeah you just stick to your vague interests and strong opinions, and i'll stick to the facts.


In an email to health staff, hackers gave evidence of some of the passwords, saying: 'While you aren't considered an enemy - your work is of course brilliant - we did stumble upon several of your admin passwords.'
The hackers added: 'We mean you no harm and only want to help you fix your tech issues.'



Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

Cheers

Edit: I don't support Lulzsec, merely making a point.
edit on 22-6-2011 by mr-lizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 





But in the end, I really can't say it's immoral to want to understand how something works. If you do manage to hack into a system, it's best to leave a message telling them exactly how you did it. They will probably still clean out their systems though. However, you have done them a greater favor by pointing out a flaw which very well could have resulted in utter chaos, if it had of been exploited by a more malicious hacker.


That is ridiculous justification and defense for criminal behavior .



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


the argument that the internet is no different than the physical world
is being promoted by those who would police/control it for their own benefit/ petty interests.

the same crowd that has already made great inroads at privatizing things like rainfall and no doubt soon the same arguments will soon be used to tax people for the air they breathe.





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