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For all you "LEO's" out there

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posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by sempul
they stay on the force because many higher ups do not take the recommendation from their training officers and keep them until something bad happens. you know how accountants work. all they can see is the cost of training another one and figure they wont do anything that bad. then they do. believe me it frustrate me to no ends sometimes.

Yes, I know how that works, I deal with it my job, however, my job doesn't hold life and death in the balance at every moment. And because of that very reason, I do think there are far more "bad" cops then the good ones want to admit publicly, and I wont ask you to.

and as far as having to get a warrant, i cant speak for FL, but here in LA i wont need one. a lot of people think they know the law but really dont. i have been doing this for 12 years and i dont know more than half. and most of that is just the common stuff that i use everyday. laws change every day and there is no website or other information that gives you that information. a prime example is that here it was a felony to shoplift if you took over $299 worth of stuff. they change this law to make it over $499 and no one was told. we charged people with the wrong fine dor over a year before we found out. its a crying shame and it takes up a lot of my time trying to keep up with the laws.

I realise you don't need a warrant, but again back to the PR issue, If a respectful request doesn't work, I think informing them that they will be detained until a warrant is issued would, one would show that you are attempting to respect the individuals rights as well as perform your duties and two would more often then not allow you to obtain the evidence voluntarily, after that, then cuff em and charge them with interfering with an investigation. For me it comes down to property rights, I probably wouldn't turn over my camera, but I would more then likely hand over the card in the camera.


i personally think there should be a site to keep that up to date. maybe when i retire i should go into that lol.

edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)


i understand your issue with the life and death thing. however administrators are the same no matter where you work. same with bean counters. i think they should be personally held responsible when something bad happens. i know i keep copies of everything i recommend to them. if one of the idiots that gets through the system does make that fatal mistake i would hate to think what would happen if those documents ever got "misplaced" where they coul dbe found.

and yes the card would be great. problem is most people dont have that on thier phone and that is why it is taken. since we are discussing laws here, may i suggest you have a look at www.ca5.uscourts.gov... which is a recent ruling where i do not need a warrant to search your phone. it falls under the Terry law where police have the right to search your phone for any pictures or video of contraband after arrest and before booking. yes i know you have to be under arrest but have you ever looked at what you could be legally arrested for? if i follow you for more than 5 minutes i bet i can find at least 3 things. would I? no because that is a misuse of power. in this case it woud not be warranted. im just saying know your laws before you start screaming that you "know" your laws. watching all the episodes of L.A. law does not count. what you hear on tv is not true. prime example is a lot of time people will scream that i violated your rights by not giving them their Miranda rights when they were arrested. i DO NOT have to give you your miranda rights just because i arrested you. i ONLY have to do so if i question you in any way. and for that matter SCROTUS recently decided a case that Miranda is now common knowledge and depending on the situation we dont have to give them AT ALL. think of that before you scream that you were wronged.




posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
if i follow you for more than 5 minutes i bet i can find at least 3 things. would I? no because that is a misuse of power. in this case it woud not be warranted. im just saying know your laws before you start screaming that you "know" your laws. watching all the episodes of L.A. law does not count. what you hear on tv is not true. prime example is a lot of time people will scream that i violated your rights by not giving them their Miranda rights when they were arrested. i DO NOT have to give you your miranda rights just because i arrested you. i ONLY have to do so if i question you in any way. and for that matter SCROTUS recently decided a case that Miranda is now common knowledge and depending on the situation we dont have to give them AT ALL. think of that before you scream that you were wronged.

I will agree with this 100%, I do not claim to know the "law" what I do know is what legally is "suppose" to constitute a crime, which is the intent to injure or damage life or property followed by the action itself i.e. corpus delecti.
www.criminal-law-lawyer-source.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:07 AM
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I haven't been able to watch the video, due to being at work. But I left law enforcement for a multitude of reasons. One of those reasons are for being shot at, for attempting to extend my helpful demeanor, by a kid I knew and had built a semi positive relationship with. Despite, his issues..

The subsequent arrest, was not painless for the shooter. Now. You film the event, only release the subduing part. What is not shown is the assistance the "leo" was offering, or the the subsequent un necessary shot by the kid. Just the violent follow up. I can't tell you that it wasn't violent. Lives were now in danger, including mine, and it was MY DUTY, to nullify the danger.

That "proverbial" video, out of context, goes viral and creates a whole bunch of cop haters. All on misrepresented facts.

Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too.

You want leos to stand to a higher standard, than leos also demand a higher standard from joe society too.

Don't like that?
Waaaah.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper

Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too.


They are performing a public service in public places - their rights to 'privacy' are nil.

You know how many LEO's say "What are you afraid of? If you haven't done anything wrong then why should you fear it?" It applies to LEO's too you know.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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reply to post by Demoncreeper
 



Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too. You want leos to stand to a higher standard, than leos also demand a higher standard from joe society too. Don't like that? Waaaah.
That's all cool, but Joe Public can't pull you over and demand your papers on the side of the road.

Joe Public can't order you out of your car and demand to know things like where you are going and what you are doing.

Joe Public usually isn't wearing a gun, taser and handcuffs on his hips.

There's a little bit of difference between Joe Public and an LEO. Like how an LEO's word counts more in court.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:20 AM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too.

You want leos to stand to a higher standard, than leos also demand a higher standard from joe society too.

Don't like that?
Waaaah.

I work in the private sector and am in fact filmed the entire time I am at work, it is used to hold me accountable for any violation of company policy. It doesn't bother me because I know that I set my standards even higher then my company. Now I am also a tax payer and as such demand the same set of high standards from those I am forced with threat of violence and imprisonment to fund, so if i choose to stand on private property or public out of the way and film them to ensure they are in fact doing their job in a professional respectful manner while out in the public square, then I should have that right, and not be harassed unless I am in fact interfering. And as stated before as long as I am approached and treated with respect, informed of a legitimate reason to have my copy of the video I will comply with the request.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
if i follow you for more than 5 minutes i bet i can find at least 3 things. would I? no because that is a misuse of power. in this case it woud not be warranted. im just saying know your laws before you start screaming that you "know" your laws. watching all the episodes of L.A. law does not count. what you hear on tv is not true. prime example is a lot of time people will scream that i violated your rights by not giving them their Miranda rights when they were arrested. i DO NOT have to give you your miranda rights just because i arrested you. i ONLY have to do so if i question you in any way. and for that matter SCROTUS recently decided a case that Miranda is now common knowledge and depending on the situation we dont have to give them AT ALL. think of that before you scream that you were wronged.



Why should you expect the civilians to be completely educated on all of the practices of law? Police officers aren't. I mean, I was ticketed twice when I was 17 by the local police force for smoking... (The legal age to smoke is 16, while the legal age to purchase is 19)

I also had a police officer tell me that "harassment is not illegal" when I was at work and a group of teenagers stole my coat from the front lobby, took my cellphone, drove through my drive-thru lane multiple times in their parents' Jaguar spewing gay slurs, and eventually dropped my coat in a bush at a gas station down the street. When I was explaining my story, though, every time I got to a part where the harassment came up, the officer would say "calling people names is not illegal". Eventually I got fed up with his interruptions and said "Harassment is very much illegal; it's just not criminal. Coming in and ordering a coffee is not illegal though, but you didn't harp about that when I said they did it. Can I finish my testimony without more arbitrary interruptions now?" I was laughed at and treated like a child for the remainder of the process. I eventually had to call a DA to get the issue looked at seriously after I had received my coat back via the police and they had stolen my cell phone.

Now I have an app on my cellphone that searches laws. If only the LEOs cared about the integrity of the law more than their personal egos, they would too.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
Now I have an app on my cellphone that searches laws. If only the LEOs cared about the integrity of the law more than their personal egos, they would too.

Is it an iphone or an android app? and which one is it



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
Now I have an app on my cellphone that searches laws. If only the LEOs cared about the integrity of the law more than their personal egos, they would too.

Is it an iphone or an android app? and which one is it


There are various ones available on all smart phone mediums.

This is not the one that I have, because mine is Canadian, but this looks like a decent app directory to find the apps for laws applied in specific states:

Informed Librarian



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:50 AM
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well yay i must be a good cop then lol. i have LA09 on my iphone that is all of the laws in LA. i cant really comment much on your case as you are canadian and i dont know the laws of other states much less countrys. (even though i might need to brush up on the laws of "americas hat" since i am just about fed up with the direction we are headed lol. i can tell you here that calling someone names is in fact not against the law. however i could have found a reason (such as trespassing) to help you with your complaint. everyone gets mad at the fact that calling names is not illegal. everyonse gets all up in an uproar when their rights are trampled but God forbid someone does it back to you. i think you just have to look at it from both sides. like what i do is i listen to one sides story, then the other sides, then i try to make a somewhat plausbile series of events combining the two. its not perfect but it works.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by Kryties
 


and i agree. i am not afraid of any of it since i am doing my job correctly. i am talking about interferring, causing a bad scene to go worse, or is evidence value. film me all you want, just dont get mad when i take a copy of it. or the whole video if it is warranted.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Kryties

They are performing a public service in public places - their rights to 'privacy' are nil.

You know how many LEO's say "What are you afraid of? If you haven't done anything wrong then why should you fear it?" It applies to LEO's too you know.



I am well aware of the rights. Still doesn't make me or you less of a person. No one "likes" being filmed, regardless of what they are doing. Unless you are an actor. haha.

I work in the surveillance industry now. Haha. Spin that in your conspiracy plate. I'm not saying it's right to get all aggressive, because someone is filming me. A lot of tools that police USED in the past have ceased because of cameras. The fact is it is supposed to be used to protect the public. As we ARE the servants of the public. There was never a time where I was being an oppressive government provocateur. I can say the same about many of the leo brothers and sisters. Film me if you want, but I don't have to like it. But also my other points that you didn't quote still stand.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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There is an ever increasing number of videos of incidents like this where someone is harassed by police for no good reason. The police are losing the respect of citizens and only making their jobs more difficult by not making an effort to prove they understand their primary function "to serve and protect" the law-abiding citizen. There was another policeman or two on site that should have gotten involved and calmed the officer down, reminding him of his job description and not to harass the law-abiding citizen.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:05 PM
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As a city worker who has nothing to do with law enforcement, I work on/in construction sites where the public may pass by freely and observe the work taking place. As long as there is no intrusion to the worksite by a member of the public there's nothing stopping them from observing their tax-dollars at work or video taping it either.

Onto those working in law enforcement, as long as there's no confidential activity going like a drug bust with an undercover officer or an informant, all their actions should be apparent and free for anyone to view or record if its a public space and these public servants are doing the job properly and according to the letter of the law.

I am willing to be recorded ALL DAY doing whats right and proper in adherence to the law. Video would serve as testimony to proper behavior. And as a cop goes, how could it be unjustified or intrusive to be recorded being a good cop. Its only where there's potential "bad cop" activity that recording seems intrusive besides so many departments have cameras in their cars already, what detriment is there to having an additional perspective that can attest further to the proper behavior of those in law enforcement.

If my actions as a public servant are subject to scrutiny, why shouldn't the actions of other public servants be subject as well? especially when those others (LEO's) have been armed and empowered to use force in order to maintain order. All public services should in general have a high degree of transparency, we should know how our tax dollars are spent, and as citizens its fair that we have the right to document(record) the actions of those we pay the salaries of, within reason. Again excluding the areas of sensitivity like narcs, informants, anti terror.

Police secrecy outside of the previous areas, is a dangerous step, that cannot and should not be allowed, there must be checks and balances to ensure that cops are Always on the right side of the law, and the public can be a valid way to help ensure the integrity of our police officers. Never should one officer be allowed to corrupt the rules and get away with it. Cops keep us in check and it's fair to reciprocate, we should be part of keeping them in check as well.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Police suppression of photography seems to be a recurring theme in New York City. I think much of this comes from uninformed police officers who think they're acting in everyone's best interest but much of the time it just comes across as unnecessary harassment.



The ongoing battle between photographers and Metropolitan Transportation Authority police officers in New York City has reached a boiling point after the latest incident in which a San Francisco videographer was harassed.

The incident that sparked the upcoming protest occurred last Sunday when an MTA police officer tried to confiscate the video camera of Katherin McInnis, a video artist/teacher who was standing on a sidewalk, shooting video of the controversial Atlantic Yards project site.

www.pixiq.com...



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:08 PM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too.

You want leos to stand to a higher standard, than leos also demand a higher standard from joe society too.

Don't like that?
Waaaah.

I work in the private sector and am in fact filmed the entire time I am at work, it is used to hold me accountable for any violation of company policy. It doesn't bother me because I know that I set my standards even higher then my company. Now I am also a tax payer and as such demand the same set of high standards from those I am forced with threat of violence and imprisonment to fund, so if i choose to stand on private property or public out of the way and film them to ensure they are in fact doing their job in a professional respectful manner while out in the public square, then I should have that right, and not be harassed unless I am in fact interfering. And as stated before as long as I am approached and treated with respect, informed of a legitimate reason to have my copy of the video I will comply with the request.


And generally, this is how it should happen. I approached most situations respectfully. The respect should go both ways.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 





I attended police foundations for one term and quit. They literally tell you that, and I quote, "You aren't here to help people, you are here to write tickets and perform arrests; to the majority of the population, you are just the enemy. It's 'us' against 'them' more often than not." Anyone who would stay in their training after such a speech is bound to have ill-intent for the kids-table amounts of power that comes with it


Thank you for shining a big light on what is at the core of this issue.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by Demoncreeper
Film me if you want, but I don't have to like it. But also my other points that you didn't quote still stand.


Not liking being filmed yet letting it slide and actually harassing and arresting people who do the filming are two separate issues.

It doesn't matter if a policeman doesn't like being filmed. The fact is that it's not illegal to film them and people do it for checks and balances - to keep them honest. Judging by the daily reports of police corruption this is very needed and very necessary.

If I was being beaten, harassed or wrongfully arrested by police I would be overjoyed to have people filming it - that I could then use as evidence against the cop. If I didn't have that evidence I would be punished for doing nothing wrong, and yet another corrupt cop goes about his business destroying lives.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by Demoncreeper
 



Also most leo's don't like to be filmed just as joe public would rather not be filmed at their work places, or generally on the street. Remember leo's aren't robots unswayed by society. We are just people, with a job, too. You want leos to stand to a higher standard, than leos also demand a higher standard from joe society too. Don't like that? Waaaah.
That's all cool, but Joe Public can't pull you over and demand your papers on the side of the road.

Joe Public can't order you out of your car and demand to know things like where you are going and what you are doing.

Joe Public usually isn't wearing a gun, taser and handcuffs on his hips.

There's a little bit of difference between Joe Public and an LEO. Like how an LEO's word counts more in court.



Well, it would be like how you would take an electricians word over a non electricians word. No? But, I see your point. If a leo is being a dumbass, you'd provide evidence to over ride his word, in court. This is a good thing. I agree. But used wrongly...which...well.

There are a lot of things wrong with the "system". But there are also a lot of things wrong with "society". Everyone is just trying to work with what we got. hahaha.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by NuroSlam
 


Hey come on now - they are just doing there jobs.

Times are tough and we can't expect them to just walk away from their jobs just because they are asked to follow some unsavoury polices. They are usually only following orders.




And if the whole department stands together and refuses those orders they won't suspend or fire all of them......It would make the local department look bad so it would work....

But only 80% of police would....the other 20% like doing this sort of thing because they have 0 self esteem yet have 100% ego.



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