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For all you "LEO's" out there

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posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by NuroSlam
 




For the record, this post has nothing to do with my personal feelings concerning the LEO, it is strictly in the interest of understanding how this sort of thing happens and why


Why?

Same reason why there are bad doctors out there who kill people.

Same reason why there are bad firemen out there who deliberately light fires.

So let's ignore all of the positives and all the un-reported normal things all these "evil" cops do and focus on the negatives, that's what low life tabloid journalists do.

Oh and hateful fools.




NOTE: This isn't condoning the action of this cop or any other bad cops, it's just that if you go looking for negatives, you'll find them.


edit on 22/6/11 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
in my personal experience it is because it brings out the worst in people. ever notice how when someone breaks out a camera at a party people go stupid acting like retards to get on camera? same principal. except it turns violent lots of times. people want to make a scene for the camera in the hopes of it going on Utube. a lot of people make it into an ego thing. they dont want to seem like a "b!tch" on film so they go stupid on it. it personally just causes a lot of problems. also those people that are there videoing are doing nothing to help the situation and mostly are just hindering the progress going on. now to be fair i will say that some need to be videoed. just like any work force you have good and bad here. the problem is that there is just such a higher level of bad that you can go with this job. we are given an INCREDIBLE amount of power and responsibilities. you can do great things or you can do horrendous things. it all depends on the type of person that you are. myself personally depending ont he siutuation, if it is a bad enough scene and i catch you videoing the scene dont think i wont sieze your camera and copy the video if i think i will need that as part of my evidence in the prosecution. and depending on what you have on it you may or may not get your video back. some things are not released back due to laws and common sense. before you scream NWO or Police state think of this, if i am working a scene and your son/brother/family member is killed or horribly maimed or even has the video contain harmful material such as knowledge that he has AIDS of something would YOU want that released for every sick A_HOLE to get a hold of it. so please use some common sense and try to weed out the good guys from the bad guys dressed like good guys.

Now if the scene was bad enough and there was possible evidence on it, rather then just seize it (seize is a violent word), wouldn't it be better PR at least for that person to calmly walk up and say "Sir, I notice you are video taping this scene, it is possible that there my be evidence on that that may help in this case, is it possible for me to copy this for our files? We may also have to hold the original depending on what it contains but you will be reimbursed if by policy and privacy rights and wishes of the victim we are unable to return it" Even me, Mr "cop hater" as people say would say yes, because I do understand the need for this to happen in the event of a real crime.
edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Chance321
I have only one question. How would you feel if someone came to your job and just started video tapeing you and everything you did? Bet you'd get annoyed after awhile.

Coming onto private property and interfering with a business is one thing, this is being doing on public streets in the name of the common good by "civil servants". Two different issues. In fact he broke the law of trespassing on private property.


actually when you start to video a crime in progress you have just made yourself part of that ongoing investigation. thik of that before you just start videoing everything. if you video it and refuse to act then dont be surprised if you come up with civil charges form the wronged party. did no one watch that episode fo sienfield?



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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I am asking the LEO's to explain how and why this happens



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by sempul

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Chance321
I have only one question. How would you feel if someone came to your job and just started video tapeing you and everything you did? Bet you'd get annoyed after awhile.

Coming onto private property and interfering with a business is one thing, this is being doing on public streets in the name of the common good by "civil servants". Two different issues. In fact he broke the law of trespassing on private property.


actually when you start to video a crime in progress you have just made yourself part of that ongoing investigation. thik of that before you just start videoing everything. if you video it and refuse to act then dont be surprised if you come up with civil charges form the wronged party. did no one watch that episode fo sienfield?

Again, should the person filming be made aware of that instead of saying "we don't feel safe with you behind us?" I do have to say, I dont see how any crime is in progress in this particular incident.
edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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This isn't an isolated incident, it's been happening way too often nowadays. There are too many trigger-happy, hot tempered, bad attitude having LEOs.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Chance321
I have only one question. How would you feel if someone came to your job and just started video tapeing you and everything you did? Bet you'd get annoyed after awhile.

Coming onto private property and interfering with a business is one thing, this is being doing on public streets in the name of the common good by "civil servants". Two different issues. In fact he broke the law of trespassing on private property.


Your right, so lets leave your work out of the question. How about soon as you leave your home someone follows you around recording everything you say and do every day. Would you like that? Would you find it annoying after awhile? I'm just looking for an honest answer.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by Chance321

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Chance321
I have only one question. How would you feel if someone came to your job and just started video tapeing you and everything you did? Bet you'd get annoyed after awhile.

Coming onto private property and interfering with a business is one thing, this is being doing on public streets in the name of the common good by "civil servants". Two different issues. In fact he broke the law of trespassing on private property.


Your right, so lets leave your work out of the question. How about soon as you leave your home someone follows you around recording everything you say and do every day. Would you like that? Would you find it annoying after awhile? I'm just looking for an honest answer.

Unlike most, I understand that that is already happening, I also have nothing to hide.
edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by sempul
in my personal experience it is because it brings out the worst in people. ever notice how when someone breaks out a camera at a party people go stupid acting like retards to get on camera? same principal. except it turns violent lots of times. people want to make a scene for the camera in the hopes of it going on Utube. a lot of people make it into an ego thing. they dont want to seem like a "b!tch" on film so they go stupid on it. it personally just causes a lot of problems. also those people that are there videoing are doing nothing to help the situation and mostly are just hindering the progress going on. now to be fair i will say that some need to be videoed. just like any work force you have good and bad here. the problem is that there is just such a higher level of bad that you can go with this job. we are given an INCREDIBLE amount of power and responsibilities. you can do great things or you can do horrendous things. it all depends on the type of person that you are. myself personally depending ont he siutuation, if it is a bad enough scene and i catch you videoing the scene dont think i wont sieze your camera and copy the video if i think i will need that as part of my evidence in the prosecution. and depending on what you have on it you may or may not get your video back. some things are not released back due to laws and common sense. before you scream NWO or Police state think of this, if i am working a scene and your son/brother/family member is killed or horribly maimed or even has the video contain harmful material such as knowledge that he has AIDS of something would YOU want that released for every sick A_HOLE to get a hold of it. so please use some common sense and try to weed out the good guys from the bad guys dressed like good guys.

Now if the scene was bad enough and there was possible evidence on it, rather then just seize it (seize is a violent word), wouldn't it be better PR at least for that person to calmly walk up and say "Sir, I notice you are video taping this scene, it is possible that there my be evidence on that that may help in this case, is it possible for me to copy this for our files? We may also have to hold the original depending on what it contains but you will be reimbursed if by policy and privacy of rights of the victim we are unable to return it" Even me, Mr "cop hater" as people say would say yes, because I do understand the need for this to happen in the event of a real crime.


you are correct. it is all in how you handle a call. it is not something that can be taught in school as every call is different.i try to treat everyone with respect. and i would ask politely if the person is willing to cooperate. but what happens when that person refuses? then i "sieze" it (it a legal term dont take it as a negative thing that people try to make it) and all the sudden im a "bad" guy. if i ask and you refuse then i am just going to take it if am legally allowed to do so. i will try my best to not damage it and return it to you as soon as possible. i am actually a training officer where i have new guys ride with me and i try to instill a bit of wisdom to the new guys so they can get away form what i call the shiny badge syndrome. we are not all powerful. how a scene is handled depends 100% on them. my personal rule is that you dont mother eff them until they moter eff you. what that means is that you be polite and respectful until they refuse to accept it. then you take charge of that situation by whatever means neccasary.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
you are correct. it is all in how you handle a call. it is not something that can be taught in school as every call is different.i try to treat everyone with respect. and i would ask politely if the person is willing to cooperate. but what happens when that person refuses? then i "sieze" it (it a legal term dont take it as a negative thing that people try to make it) and all the sudden im a "bad" guy. if i ask and you refuse then i am just going to take it if am legally allowed to do so. i will try my best to not damage it and return it to you as soon as possible. i am actually a training officer where i have new guys ride with me and i try to instill a bit of wisdom to the new guys so they can get away form what i call the shiny badge syndrome. we are not all powerful. how a scene is handled depends 100% on them. my personal rule is that you dont mother eff them until they moter eff you. what that means is that you be polite and respectful until they refuse to accept it. then you take charge of that situation by whatever means neccasary.

Since that situation would suit a warrant and no doubt be given then then legally seizing it would not be an issue. however you have the indecent in Florida recently with officer evolved shooting and it wasn't about seizing the camera it was about breaking it, As a training officer, how do these people stay on the force? If you do infact act in the manner you describe, I would at least say your a decent LEO. I do have other issues but thats for another thread.
edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:51 AM
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Originally posted by Chance321

Originally posted by NuroSlam

Originally posted by Chance321
I have only one question. How would you feel if someone came to your job and just started video tapeing you and everything you did? Bet you'd get annoyed after awhile.

Coming onto private property and interfering with a business is one thing, this is being doing on public streets in the name of the common good by "civil servants". Two different issues. In fact he broke the law of trespassing on private property.


Your right, so lets leave your work out of the question. How about soon as you leave your home someone follows you around recording everything you say and do every day. Would you like that? Would you find it annoying after awhile? I'm just looking for an honest answer.


Now LEOs are the celebrities and innocent bystanders are the TMZ cameramen?

If cops didn't do so many shady things or abuse their power, the public wouldn't have to whip out the camera to save it as evidence...
edit on 22-6-2011 by blackrain17 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Wanders
 


You are correct, there are ones that are power drunk bullies and most likely they were picked on in high school too. Throughout my life I've had both negative and positive experiences with police, I've met some who should be locked up themselves and I've met some who are totally selfless that would do anything to help their fellow man. I don't believe the majority are bad, but the douche bags really should be weeded out of our departments. Something easier said than done I suppose.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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reply to post by NuroSlam
 



"Sir, I notice you are video taping this scene, it is possible that there my be evidence on that that may help in this case, is it possible for me to copy this for our files?

If they need it as evidence they can get a subpoena to have it brought into evidence through the courts.

That is the way it ought to be done.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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they stay on the force because many higher ups do not take the recommendation from their training officers and keep them until something bad happens. you know how accountants work. all they can see is the cost of training another one and figure they wont do anything that bad. then they do. believe me it frustrate me to no ends sometimes. and as far as having to get a warrant, i cant speak for FL, but here in LA i wont need one. a lot of people think they know the law but really dont. i have been doing this for 12 years and i dont know more than half. and most of that is just the common stuff that i use everyday. laws change every day and there is no website or other information that gives you that information. a prime example is that here it was a felony to shoplift if you took over $299 worth of stuff. they change this law to make it over $499 and no one was told. we charged people with the wrong fine dor over a year before we found out. its a crying shame and it takes up a lot of my time trying to keep up with the laws. i ersonally think there should be a site to keep that up to date. maybe when i retire i should go into that lol.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by NuroSlam
 



"Sir, I notice you are video taping this scene, it is possible that there my be evidence on that that may help in this case, is it possible for me to copy this for our files?

If they need it as evidence they can get a subpoena to have it brought into evidence through the courts.

That is the way it ought to be done.



and we are just supposed to just trust that that video is not altered or that you are just going to be relied on to bring it in? no it doesnt work that way. we preserve evidence so that it can not be altered or destroyed. a subpeoba takes time and that is something for lawyers to fight over. we collect it then. myself what i will do is (if the person is willing" i will video your video with my phone. then i dont have to take it. i can email it to myself, burn a copy, and log it. however a lot of times it doesnt work because people have the misconception about the law. they think that since i recorded it on MY phone then it is MY property. no it is not. so if you shoot someone with a gun does that mean that you get to keep it because it is YOUR gun. i know that is an extreme example but it is true. now if you are cleared in the gun case them yes we will give you your gun back. we are really gun friendly here as we are still an open carry state. same with your video. once we are done with it or can copy it we will give you your recording device back. it is just that simple. most people make it harder than it has to be and ALWAYS want to scream police state. if you wanted to see what a police state looks like then you should have been here for Katrina. THAT was a police state. you had no rights to be off your proerty after the sun went down. it was horrible. however it was the ONLY way to regain controll of the areas. and before you start screaming i can tell you there was more people that came up and thanked us and offered us food and water than i have ever seen. poeple were actually touched and concerned and very grateful for the presence. it was a good learning experience and lets you know what the body can take since we were working 20 hour shifts for 13 days before we went back to just 12 hour shifts for an additional 10 days.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
if you wanted to see what a police state looks like then you should have been here for Katrina. THAT was a police state. you had no rights to be off your proerty after the sun went down. it was horrible. however it was the ONLY way to regain controll of the areas. and before you start screaming i can tell you there was more people that came up and thanked us and offered us food and water than i have ever seen. poeple were actually touched and concerned and very grateful for the presence. it was a good learning experience and lets you know what the body can take since we were working 20 hour shifts for 13 days before we went back to just 12 hour shifts for an additional 10 days.


Were they giving food and drinks and pats on the back to the Danziger Seven? I think not. They were running for their very lives from the people who were supposed to be 'protecting' them.
edit on 22/6/2011 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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Originally posted by sempul
they stay on the force because many higher ups do not take the recommendation from their training officers and keep them until something bad happens. you know how accountants work. all they can see is the cost of training another one and figure they wont do anything that bad. then they do. believe me it frustrate me to no ends sometimes.

Yes, I know how that works, I deal with it my job, however, my job doesn't hold life and death in the balance at every moment. And because of that very reason, I do think there are far more "bad" cops then the good ones want to admit publicly, and I wont ask you to.

and as far as having to get a warrant, i cant speak for FL, but here in LA i wont need one. a lot of people think they know the law but really dont. i have been doing this for 12 years and i dont know more than half. and most of that is just the common stuff that i use everyday. laws change every day and there is no website or other information that gives you that information. a prime example is that here it was a felony to shoplift if you took over $299 worth of stuff. they change this law to make it over $499 and no one was told. we charged people with the wrong fine dor over a year before we found out. its a crying shame and it takes up a lot of my time trying to keep up with the laws.

I realise you don't need a warrant, but again back to the PR issue, If a respectful request doesn't work, I think informing them that they will be detained until a warrant is issued would, one would show that you are attempting to respect the individuals rights as well as perform your duties and two would more often then not allow you to obtain the evidence voluntarily, after that, then cuff em and charge them with interfering with an investigation. For me it comes down to property rights, I probably wouldn't turn over my camera, but I would more then likely hand over the card in the camera.


i personally think there should be a site to keep that up to date. maybe when i retire i should go into that lol.

edit on 22-6-2011 by NuroSlam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by sempul
 
Do the police routinely seize cameras from news reporters?

No they usually subpoena the media that they believe may be pertinent to a case, as a judge allows.

Face it, the cops have been filmed taking and destroying cell phones at crime scenes. That is destroying evidence.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:22 AM
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and again i say look at what was going on then. am i defending them? no i am not. they did wrong. but i cant say what happened there. i wasnt there. that place was an all out and out war zone. thank GOD i didnt work there. i work close enough to it. did you know that there were army pilots there that had to return fire while trying to save lives? that there were pilots there that were throwing grenades out of a chopper to just stay alive? no none of that was reported. did you see that they were under fire with everything from handguns to RPG's? think that stuff doesnt happen here? only in the movies? guess again. come visit new orleans with me and i will take you on a tour off the beaten track. armed to the teeth of course. so dont use that one example of what would happen. those men and women (the ones in uniform not stealing like common dirt bags) were fighting for their very lives. we have some of the toughest ghettos in the world here. and when everyone else abandoned the city who do you think took over? when all the herion was gone from the city what do you think the addicts did? so until you have lived through that dont lecture me about something that you just happened to read in the paper. do i think that they were fired upon? without a doubt. do i think that they got carried away and innocent people got hurt? without a doubt. do i think they should be held to the maximum limit of the law. no. they did what they had to do to save a city and got caught up in a bad situation. it sucks.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by sempul
 
Do the police routinely seize cameras from news reporters?

No they usually subpoena the media that they believe may be pertinent to a case, as a judge allows.

Face it, the cops have been filmed taking and destroying cell phones at crime scenes. That is destroying evidence.



news cameras have legal standing and permits. check your laws. they are also very good at not altering video. only they show it in the way that seems best to them. i wish i wasnt at work and could attach videos. there was a great example of this where a news station showed a dash cam of a pursuit. they showed the black male getting out and the cops shotting him several time in the back for no apparent reason. almost caused a riot. however if ytou watched the second cars camera you see him get out and draw down on officers with a pistol. he then tries to walk away. when he points it back behind him under his arm they open fire and kill him. 100% justified. but the news showed it as cops just killing a black man for no reason. do your research before you jump to conclusions. you know the medias old say; if it bleeds it leads.

as far as your last statement i see you like to over generalize. at least the OP likes to have a resonable discussion. yes it happens. but more times than you know it is handles with due respect. of course you never see those.



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