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Questions That Deserve an Answer

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posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 12:15 PM
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reply to post by Doublemint
 


What claim have i made?

Thanks.




posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


Why talk backwards?



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Doublemint
 


?


True but I'm not the one making claims so the burdon of prove is not on me but on you


What claim has MadnessInMySoul or I made? Why is the burden of proof on me?



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by Doublemint
 


?


True but I'm not the one making claims so the burdon of prove is not on me but on you


What claim has MadnessInMySoul or I made? Why is the burden of proof on me?



MadnessInMySoul said that there was no world wide flood. You I'm still waiting on what you think about this teapot of yours.



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Doublemint
 



You I'm still waiting on what you think about this teapot of yours.


Unfalsifiable hypotheses can't be proved true or false. And because this claim has no founding; i disbelief the the claim.

Extra-terrestrial life, on the other hand, is probable and based on our study of the universe.

There is no evidence to suggest there was a worldwide flood which covered every mountain top.


7:20 - Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.


skepticsannotatedbible.com...

I believe Madnessinmysoul also had concerns with the following:-


All of the animals boarded the ark "in the selfsame day." 7:13-14


Which rationale person wouldn't?
edit on 23-6-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 23 2011 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Let's keep it on topic in YOUR threads.


Since my ban I've been trying to keep most my posts on topic.




It doesn't appear that you are responding to many of the reasonable answers to your question.


because I didn't create this thread to argue/bicker back in forth with the proverbial "I'm right you're wrong" rhetoric.

I thanked the participants. My purpose was to get people to think, and I'm accomplishing that without challenging people's opinions.



edit on 23-6-2011 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 01:21 AM
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reply to post by Seed76
 


10. But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!

That's not what the alleged Jesus allegedly said when he died.

20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.

The alleged Jesus was allegedly killed by a sword.

21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

There were no significant lions or wild oxens involved in the alleged Jesus' life.

There may be some similarity between this psalm and NT, but they are far from identical.



edit on 24-6-2011 by bogomil because: paragraphing



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Seed76
 


10. But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!

That's not what the alleged Jesus allegedly said when he died.


Those were the words of David, not Jesus.



20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.

The alleged Jesus was allegedly killed by a sword.

21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

There were no significant lions or wild oxens involved in the alleged Jesus' life.

There may be some similarity between this psalm and NT, but they are far from identical.

edit on 24-6-2011 by bogomil because: paragraphing


The sword, lions and oxens are quite obviously poetic devices, ("Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!" is not referring to actual lions and oxes attacking him-why would the lion be attacking a human when there is an ox there?), this is the psalms after all, so that can be expected.

Obviously the prophecy and the account of the actual thing are not identical, a prophecy is simply a prophecy of what will come, not a word for word account of what will be written about that event.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by iamaperson

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Seed76
 


10. But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!

That's not what the alleged Jesus allegedly said when he died.


Those were the words of David, not Jesus.



20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.

The alleged Jesus was allegedly killed by a sword.

21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

There were no significant lions or wild oxens involved in the alleged Jesus' life.

There may be some similarity between this psalm and NT, but they are far from identical.

edit on 24-6-2011 by bogomil because: paragraphing


The sword, lions and oxens are quite obviously poetic devices, ("Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!" is not referring to actual lions and oxes attacking him-why would the lion be attacking a human when there is an ox there?), this is the psalms after all, so that can be expected.

Obviously the prophecy and the account of the actual thing are not identical, a prophecy is simply a prophecy of what will come, not a word for word account of what will be written about that event.


Which is the main problem with prophecies; they can be interpretated in several ways, creating the option of later saying: "See, it was prophesized".

I've met people doing the same with Nostradamus prophecies; similiarly arriving at vague answers. And as Madness wrote, there's even the risk of self-fullfilling, if someone wants to use a prophecy manipulatively.



posted on Jun, 24 2011 @ 11:08 AM
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It could be that when Jesus saw how his clothing had been divided up, it made him think of that Psalm and began reciting the beginning verses. That occurance with his clothes is the one thing claimed by any of the Gospels as having happened to fulfill a prophecy from Psalms 22, the one that starts out with, "My God, My God, why hast thou. . .". It would seem that this would have been a common practice in the ancient cultures where clothing would have seemed valuable enough to join in a competition to obtain it, and when a victim seemed to have no longer any use for such things, it would have become fair game. So the fact that he was going to be executed would pretty much guarantee that scene described in the Psalms would in fact take place. The Hebrew has a habit of emphasizing things by repeating it in a slightly changed way. So you have this double description in the Old Testament of his clothes being divided and lots cast for them. John covers the two descriptions by coming up with Jesus having worn several layers of clothing, the lesser parts easily evenly divided, and a high value single object that would have been gambled for.
I really don't think that the purpose for these little commentaries included into the Gospels is meant to be centuries later pointed at by Christian preachers to total non-believers as proof that all this actually happened. If the comments were actually written into the original book by the writer of John, it would have been to make the Jews hearing this story feel a familiarity with what was going on in the story by alluding to concepts they had been well versed in previously, as a matter of course in that culture.
edit on 24-6-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by bogomil
 


10. But You, O LORD, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!

That's not what the alleged Jesus allegedly said when he died.


Why do you think is referring to Jesus last words?


20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My precious life from the power of the dog.

The alleged Jesus was allegedly killed by a sword.


And why do you think that verse is speaking about the death of Jesus by sword?


21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!

There were no significant lions or wild oxens involved in the alleged Jesus' life.


Well, i do not know if he ever saw a Lion or a wild Ox in His entire life, but i am glad you do.
But as a previous poster said the sword, lions, oxens are words which are used figuratively. Just like when i am saying "It´s raining Cats and Dogs". Each psalm have a poetic character with frequent use of parallelism.


There may be some similarity between this psalm and NT, but they are far from identical.


That´s why is called Biblical Poetry. And as a poem psalm 22 verses 19-21 in my opinion, portrays the agony that is mentioned in verses 1-2.

Peace



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by Seed76
 


I have maybe not come across to you with my intentions.

I said, that verses 19-21 is NOT referring to Jesus; consequently is the initial claim from OP cherry-picking.

When you start with mytho-poetical interpretations, it's possible to arrive at practically ANY answer you set out to 'prove'.

The objective method starts FROM the (carefully selected relevant) questions and works towards an answer. If you already have an answer from the start, it's not so difficult to make vague 'interpretations' allegedly proving it.

That's one of the main differences between facts and faith.



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by bogomil
Which is the main problem with prophecies; they can be interpretated in several ways, creating the option of later saying: "See, it was prophesized".

I've met people doing the same with Nostradamus prophecies; similiarly arriving at vague answers. And as Madness wrote, there's even the risk of self-fullfilling, if someone wants to use a prophecy manipulatively.


I don't see why one would interperate "Save Me from the lion’s mouth | And from the horns of the wild oxen!" literally, but I see your point. I don't know if that was a prophecy either, as far as I know the Psalms are psalms, but that could have been a prophecy. I don't know.



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 08:25 AM
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What food was served at the last supper?
Who got stuck with the bill at the last supper?
Did they try to bargain it down?
How good of a carpenter was Jesus?
Why would you need water turned into wine?
5000+ men, woman and children and not one of them brought a sandwich?



posted on Jun, 25 2011 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by iamaperson

Originally posted by bogomil
Which is the main problem with prophecies; they can be interpretated in several ways, creating the option of later saying: "See, it was prophesized".

I've met people doing the same with Nostradamus prophecies; similiarly arriving at vague answers. And as Madness wrote, there's even the risk of self-fullfilling, if someone wants to use a prophecy manipulatively.


I don't see why one would interperate "Save Me from the lion’s mouth | And from the horns of the wild oxen!" literally, but I see your point. I don't know if that was a prophecy either, as far as I know the Psalms are psalms, but that could have been a prophecy. I don't know.


As the OP author doesn't state his intent with the 'questions deserving answers', I'm somewhat at a loss here also. I can only relate to what I know of his general opinions presented on ATS; and that is 'proving' his version of bible-interpretation.

In my 1½ year on ATS or so, I've seen quite a lot of 'signs and wonders' and 'special proofs' concerning theism. Imo all of it claims build on claims with no real basis at the bottom.



posted on Jun, 26 2011 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by wdkirk
What food was served at the last supper?
Who got stuck with the bill at the last supper?
Did they try to bargain it down?
How good of a carpenter was Jesus?
Why would you need water turned into wine?
5000+ men, woman and children and not one of them brought a sandwich?


The first 4 are really good ones, I think the Bible might talk about the first one, but the second and fourth ones I would like to know the answer to, but who would know?

Last question is interesting too, although one did bring bread. (Perhaps others did too, but were not going to try to share what they brought with everybody else-the boy might have been the only one ready to give his food up).



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