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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims

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posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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The fact of the matter is that the U.S. is a secular nation founded on the principality of freedom of religion. Officially the U.S. Government is a non-denominational entity. This means that there is a separation of church and state. To have a street name with such clear Christian rhetoric is inexcusable, regardless of whether or not it is in remembrance of heros who gave their lives on September 11th. To allow the street name to remain the same sends a message to the American people that this sort of behavior is appropriate when, clearly, it is not.

Like many others have said on this thread, it is not the use of the word "Heaven", but the implication that these seven firefighters are there, that is most disturbing. This implies that Heaven is a real place when in fact there is no empirical evidence to suggest that it exists. It's another move by preachy Christians to force their world view upon others.

By the way this is my first post so... WHAT'S UP!?




posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Ancient Champion
 


I've seen a street called Red Head Blvd. Perhaps everyone that doesn't have red hair should protest. This is not meant to be an argument but rather a comment of levity.
edit on 22-6-2011 by Ryanp5555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 





Perhaps you should look around ATS and see who is more commonly found with grammar and spelling mistakes, the religious regurgitating rhetoric, or the non-religious formulating arguments...?


from the same page!




Sorry, this thread is filled with nonsense, but you really took the baton and ran with that one.





"Crying"? What a ridiculously childish word to use. Did someone upset you on World of Warcraft earlier today?





Right, because clearly nobody on here has considered the feelings of the victims... Have you read my posts? Probably not; ignorance is bliss after all.






Have fun continuing to harp people to answer your questions when you can't even answer the questions directed at you. Christ-like behavior as usual.

...ouch. How embarassing that must be for you. Maybe you should take your own advice.

I see the insults are starting to pour in from the atheists. I didn't expect anything less.

edit on 6/22/2011 by CastleMadeOfSand because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
reply to post by Ancient Champion
 


I've seen a street called Red Head Blvd. Perhaps everyone that doesn't have red hair should protest.


Does our secular government say something about Separation of Hair Color?



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand
 


...And just as expected, a few xtians are standing pround on their high horses.
Peace and love to religious and non religious alike.
Don't become a troll, castle
edit on 22-6-2011 by CoffeeMonster because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 





Sorry, this thread is filled with nonsense, but you really took the baton and ran with that one.





"Crying"? What a ridiculously childish word to use. Did someone upset you on World of Warcraft earlier today?





Right, because clearly nobody on here has considered the feelings of the victims... Have you read my posts? Probably not; ignorance is bliss after all.






Have fun continuing to harp people to answer your questions when you can't even answer the questions directed at you. Christ-like behavior as usual.

...ouch. How embarassing that must be for you. Maybe you should take your own advice.

I see the insults are starting to pour in from the atheists. I didn't expect anything less.

edit on 6/22/2011 by CastleMadeOfSand because: (no reason given)


Embarrassing? Yes I am rather embarrassed that you're wasting your time biting at peoples' ankles with illegitimate and unrelated nonsense because your arguments are fruitless. Are you going to try to "refudiate" something else now? Perhaps maybe answer my question like you were "crying" about people not doing to you earlier?

Growing up is an option, you know.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:22 PM
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Also as atheism views most belief systems in a deity as" mythology ". Arn't they actually singling out the Christian
" mythology " here ? Shouldn't they also be protesting street names such as Thor, Posiedon, Medusa, even Trident ? I still hold to how much this actually wieghs on the scale of importance. Protesting street names. ?
Ok maybe. Ted Bundy blvd. Charlie Manson road. Dead end.

edit on 22-6-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by CoffeeMonster
reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand
 


...And just as expected, a few xtians are standing pround on their high horses.
Peace and love to religious and non religious alike.
Don't become a troll, castle
edit on 22-6-2011 by CoffeeMonster because: (no reason given)


No worries, I'll never be a troll. The trolls are the ones twisting words and throwing out insults. BTW, I'm not a christian.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:24 PM
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Atheist is another way of saying cynical a$$hole... waaa waaa i don't believe in anything waaa waaa



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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I am offended by atheists. What can I do to ensure they cannot be within 50m of me?

It's offensive to speak with them, look at them, even hear about them. Where is my justice?

BTW thats pure sarcasm.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by Ancient Champion
 


atheists don't be knowing 9/11 was an inside job...



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

The victims of 911 are honored by the naming of a street "Seven in Heaven Way" and the NY atheist get mad try to have the sign removed. If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!
edit on 21-6-2011 by Ancient Champion because: added more words


Yeah. Those crappy atheists, fighting to preserve America's important rights. They should just shut the heck up because YOU like the sign. That's all that matters, right?


Exactly. What about seperation of Church and State? This sign is a direct contravention of the US Constitution.


Really?

Can you find for me where it says "Separation of Church and State" in the Constitution?Also, how is this respecting the establishment of a state sponsored religion when heaven is simply a noun? To further illustrate my point:

This is a street sign. The Constitution forbids congress, and in tandem, state and local government from waiting laws to create a state religion or to favor one over the other. A Street sign is NOT a law. A street sign that says 'Heaven' on it does not establish a state or local religion, nor does it favor one religion over another.

So please explain to me how you're going to prove in a court of law how this is "in contravention of the Constitution"?
edit on 22-6-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 


Yet more insults and off-topic banter. Typical.

You never asked me any questions in the first place, so why am I obligated to answer?

Keep going, I insist. You are only bringing down the other atheists with you.

It's pretty obvious what you are doing. Sorry, but I'm not falling for it.

Come back when you can be civil.

Deny Ignorance!

DENIED!!!!



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
Shouldn't they also be protesting street names such as Thor, Posiedon, Medusa, even Trident ?


Maybe not "Trident"


But the Thor and Poseidon believers don't generally have a strong lobby in Washington to give their beliefs special consideration. But it is ideal to keep even the gods nobody believes in out of the publicly funded domains.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs

Traditional, your wrong only about me being out there.


That's okay. I can go on your behalf -or not- but either way we all benefit.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


LOL I wasn't writing that as an argument for the street. It would be a bad argument. I was simply making light of another street. But I do understand how you came to that conclusion.

But if you'd like to get into this we can. First, we'd need to make sure that this street sign is not somehow privately funded. If it is, guess what, the government has obviously made the street sign a limited public forum which they could choose to regulate if they'd like; they can refuse to as well.

Now, lets say it purely government action (aka the state is funding and naming the sign/street). In order for there to be constitutional government action w/freedom of religion you're going to have to look at three things: (1) there was a secular purpose; (2) which does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion; and (3) there must not be excessive government entanglement with religion.

This would obviously be the closer call. You could argue that the naming of the sign has nothing to do with religion but rather naming a street. And naming a street has nothing to do with religion. Further, the street sign is there to honor those who have died, as heaven is merely just another reference to death. It's clearly more favorable a reference to death than calling something death road, which would be borderline offensive when trying to remember the fallen. Can you really say the PRIMARY EFFECT of the street sign is to advance or inhibits religion? It doesn't make any mention of a specific religion, or even religious belief. It preaches absolutely nothing, as it is just another way to remember those who have fallen (again any other name remembering them would likely be far more offensive). It's merely primary purpose is to merely remember the fallen; not to advance or inhibit religion. There isn't excessive government entanglement with religion because, again, this does absolutely nothing to promote a religion (multiple religions believe in heaven) and is used as a statement to reference those who have fallen, not to sit around and tell you that you should believe in religion. The government has not funded any religious effort in creating this sign either. The sign just stands there to remember the fallen.

Of course you could argue that the name "heaven" on a street sign means the street has a non-secular purpose. Further, the name heaven clearly advances religion, and the government named the street therefore there is excessive government entanglement.

Personally, despite the wordiness of the first argument, I think it is better. Again, I believe the secular purpose of the law was to name a street so as to remember the fallen. The PRIMARY effect is not to advance religion but rather to remember the fallen. And I don't think a vague word like "heaven" for a street is enough to find excessive government entanglement, but its really a matter of opinion.

EDIT: I didn't realize this street was called "Seven in Heaven." I think that makes a stronger argument for the atheists as a result. However, the fact that this sign was an honorary street name, not an actual street name, may mean that it was a privately funded event. I don't really know the ins and outs of NYC's laws and procedures regarding street signs.
edit on 22-6-2011 by Ryanp5555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
Since you avoid answering my question, I'll avoid answering yours and reply with another question.

Which violates more of our fallen heroes families?

1. Atheists crying about a single word on a single sign honoring 7 fallen victims of 9-11?
2.Atheists not giving a rats behind about them and only thinking of themselves and how a sign makes them feel?



I'm not avoiding your question. I don't understand it or even how it's relevant.

Sorry but this is not an issue of honoring 911 victims or atheists thinking only of themselves. It's an issue of extrapolating money by force from one group of people and using the money to fund the religious sentiments of another.

If you don't see the problem there I can't make it much more clear for you.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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Rename this thread "STUPID Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign"

I'm an Atheist and couldn't care less. This is a blanket statement that doesn't apply to me.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 





But the Thor and Poseidon believers don't generally have a strong lobby in Washington to give their beliefs special consideration. But it is ideal to keep even the gods nobody believes in out of the publicly funded domains.


Ok You got me with lobbyism.

All the same though you could also have said, that these are just references to ancient history right ? In which my reply was going to be a snooty "oh now you're saying the reference to heaven, is no longer considered good enough for ancient history either". You , you, atheist !

edit on 22-6-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-6-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand
Since you avoid answering my question, I'll avoid answering yours and reply with another question.

Which violates more of our fallen heroes families?

1. Atheists crying about a single word on a single sign honoring 7 fallen victims of 9-11?
2.Atheists not giving a rats behind about them and only thinking of themselves and how a sign makes them feel?



I'm not avoiding your question. I don't understand it or even how it's relevant.

Sorry but this is not an issue of honoring 911 victims or atheists thinking only of themselves. It's an issue of extrapolating money by force from one group of people and using the money to fund the religious sentiments of another.

If you don't see the problem there I can't make it much more clear for you.


That's probably because you have strayed so far off topic. This topic is not about who payed for it. It's about Atheists being angry because the word "Heaven" is used on a street sign.

"extrapolating money by force'? Care to explain that one?

And yes, this IS an issue of honoring 911 victims, 7 of them to be precise. And the fact that Atheists are in an uproar because of one noun (as a previous poster said).

....also, Heaven is just another name for the Afterlife. ALL religions believe in an afterlife. Not just Christians.
edit on 6/22/2011 by CastleMadeOfSand because: (no reason given)




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