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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims

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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by babybunnies
 


No it is not. You may worship freely, and using that freedom, along with freedom of speech, you may name it freely. The religion does not guide any sort of political or federal system or laws, therefore not part separation of church and state.




posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by TDawgRex


Oh but they do exist. My Aunt is a Jehovah Witness and was always telling me I was going to hell because I thought Bigfoot and Aliens might actually exist. Good times.

Mom always pulles me aside prior to Family Reunions, …"Don't antagonize her."

Almost ruines my fun, but there's always beer and running the grill to keep me occupied.


Haha, same here, my grandmother grilled my mother for letting me read alternative studies.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:23 PM
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As a fellow atheist I really don't know how I feel about this.
Seriously, all this hassle for just a sign?
I've always felt atheism is a personal thing, not to be annoyed by signs or crosses or whatever religious symbolism.
I don't think fundamentalism has any place in atheism because then it will become a religion itself instead of a philosophy.

The above is just my personal opinion and of course I'm not a delegate of every atheist in the world :-)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Kojack
 


Atheists turn a blind eye EVERY SINGLE DAY...
Every time they pull money out of their wallet...
Every time they pull up behind a car with some religious bumper sticker...
Every time they turn a street corner with ANOTHER church with some sign quoting the bible...
Every time they have to smile in a thankful way for someone "blessing" them...
Every time they read in the news about some tragedy that took lives,.. and hear the old chestnut: "I survived because god was looking over me..."

ALL DAY LONG...

Christians have this country so saturated in their religious iconography and verbiage, they don't even see it anymore... And we non-believers keep our opinions to ourselves 99% of the time ...ON A DAILY BASIS...

Some of us feel the need every now and then to stand up for our right to live without religion SHOVED IN OUR FACE when it comes to state or government money,... that WE contribute to... being used to forward religion...

Face it,... Christians don't play fair because they don't think they have to...

I find that extremely offensive and MORALLY ARROGANT...

(yeah yeah, I know,... if I don't like this country I should leave,.. right?)

Amazing hypocrisy...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

The victims of 911 are honored by the naming of a street "Seven in Heaven Way" and the NY atheist get mad try to have the sign removed. If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!
edit on 21-6-2011 by Ancient Champion because: added more words


Yeah. Those crappy atheists, fighting to preserve America's important rights. They should just shut the heck up because YOU like the sign. That's all that matters, right?


Exactly. What about seperation of Church and State? This sign is a direct contravention of the US Constitution.


Seperation of Church and State has nothing to do with honoring the fallen victims of 911.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by kro32
 


Well, they always outnumber me besides.


But yep, I too, have noticed that they have short attention spans.

LOOK! Shiny!


Oooooh



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:30 PM
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All they are doing is naming a street in the victims honor. You people act as if they are enacting christain law in the nation.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

The victims of 911 are honored by the naming of a street "Seven in Heaven Way" and the NY atheist get mad try to have the sign removed. If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!
edit on 21-6-2011 by Ancient Champion because: added more words


Yeah. Those crappy atheists, fighting to preserve America's important rights. They should just shut the heck up because YOU like the sign. That's all that matters, right?


Ehhh.

I hope you are just being a smart-@## right now...because you imply that someone with a religious background or belief system doesn't want to fight to preserve America's rights. You should be smart enough to know that. Also, everyone, atheist, deist, agnostic, christian, taoist, etc has the right to say what they feel about what is going on in their country...that's somethign we enjoy living here. Everyone can voice what they want. That being said, if someone doesn't like that sign, then too dang bad. Deal with it, or go raise money to buy your own sign and present YOUR view.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Ancient Champion

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

The victims of 911 are honored by the naming of a street "Seven in Heaven Way" and the NY atheist get mad try to have the sign removed. If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!
edit on 21-6-2011 by Ancient Champion because: added more words


Yeah. Those crappy atheists, fighting to preserve America's important rights. They should just shut the heck up because YOU like the sign. That's all that matters, right?


Exactly. What about seperation of Church and State? This sign is a direct contravention of the US Constitution.


Seperation of Church and State has nothing to do with honoring the fallen victims of 911.


Yep. I think often that the whole 'separation of church and state' is not interpreted correctly. OR looked at the right way, at the very least. No one is being forced to do anything here, to the best of my knowledge...so why is it an issue? (Is it an issue? Oh hell...whatever.)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by coastlinekid
reply to post by Kojack
 

Atheists turn a blind eye EVERY SINGLE DAY... Really? Some do and some don't.

- Does it really offend you to see "In God we Trust" every time you buy a tank of gas? Really? The price of gas offends me.

Every time they pull money out of their wallet...
- Who's "They?"

Every time they pull up behind a car with some religious bumper sticker...
- Just like I should be offended when I see a Obama sticker or a outdated McCain/Palin sticker. Wow! Really? Methinks thou protest to much.

Every time they turn a street corner with ANOTHER church with some sign quoting the bible...
- It's religion, people have different faiths, as do you. Get over it.

Every time they have to smile in a thankful way for someone "blessing" them...
- Think of it as a "Thank You." And you don't have to smile. I donate to charyties all the time. Jam the money in the jar and move on before they can even say anything. I'm not expecting thanks or a poppy or a whatever.

Every time they read in the news about some tragedy that took lives,.. and hear the old chestnut: "I survived because god was looking over me..."
- Because it would make for such good reading to hear, "Hey I survived that thar ternado, but my neighbor didn't, sucks to be him"

edit on 21-6-2011 by TDawgRex because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:48 PM
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The problem is that they are using Christian imagery to honor everyone who died in the Towers, while not everyone who died in the Towers was Christian. If they wanted to be right about this then they would have used a religion neutral honoring.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I notice you did not address the fact that MY money is being used to forward a religion that just happens to be in the majority...

Interesting how you come back at me with all those SECULAR examples,... I am perfectly willing to endure being offended by those things because I am an American Citizen,... I used those examples to show that atheists stay quiet about it because they know they live in a country with religious freedom,...

I don't barge into a church on sunday morning and demand they honor my beliefs...

All I ask is that you KEEP IT THERE,... and don't use MY money to push it outside your church...

Oh,.. and believe me,.. when it comes to religion I most definitely have gotten over it...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:58 PM
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Some people are so deep into the propoganda matrix that rational debate is impossible at this point.

The reason church is seperated from state is because religion removes rationality from decision making. The idea was that the government should never be able to establish a state religion like Kings used to, and likewise that people should be able to believe and express themselves as they see fit. This is why the Free Exercise Clause is in the First Amendment.

Do you all not see what is being done to you? Those controlling the hegelian agenda have subverted the seperation of church and state by conflating religion with political platforms. It was done this way to divide and conquer us. We have irresolvable debates profliferating political platforms now. Abortion and gay marriage are the two most obvious examples, but even entitlements v. tax cuts is seeded with religiously moral overtones. These debates divide us, and distract us from corruption and theft by bankers. This sign issue right here is just another version of it. Look at the world around us, falling apart, and yet they get people to argue and HATE each other instead of the small group of individuals responsible for it all.

In my opinion there is common ground developing between religion, science and spirituality. Take a stroll through the consciousness threads around here. It is elegantly beautiful. We are all connected to the universe in ways that cannot be explained by religion or science yet. No matter what you believe, I feel that eventually we will all believe the same thing, when we are ready. In other words religion and science will converge into a universal, spiritual truth. But it's not going to happen if we continue to allow the powers that be to divide us with petty disputes and eventually enslave us.

If we don't learn to live together, we will all die alone.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Not an athiest, but it seems to me that one of the best qualities of Athiesm is that it appears to offer an escape from the endless whining of "you offended my beliefs by saying/wearing/doing/ XYZ..." So many religious people fall back on the crutch of "being offended" to passively-aggressively attain a kind of sympathetic attention and validation of their "persecution." It's sad to see Athiests falling into the same trap.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by coastlinekid
reply to post by TDawgRex
 


I notice you did not address the fact that MY money is being used to forward a religion that just happens to be in the majority...

Interesting how you come back at me with all those SECULAR examples,... I am perfectly willing to endure being offended by those things because I am an American Citizen,... I used those examples to show that atheists stay quiet about it because they know they live in a country with religious freedom,...

I don't barge into a church on sunday morning and demand they honor my beliefs...

All I ask is that you KEEP IT THERE,... and don't use MY money to push it outside your church...

Oh,.. and believe me,.. when it comes to religion I most definitely have gotten over it...



There was nothing secular in my mind when I typed my reply. I believe in God, but not religion, by the way, and don't push any religious agenda. Those that do, annoy me.

But how does your money go to perpetrate religions? I'm curious.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 

This thread is about a city street sign being created with tax dollars...

I am speaking about principle,...I admit I don't live in N.Y.,... so in this particular case, my tax dollars are not being used to construct this city street sign...(I hope)

I am sure if I bothered to look into it,... I can guarantee that North Carolina is using tax dollars to put up some ten commandments on gov property, (or something to that effect) and it is being endured by the small secular population living in this state,.. mostly because,... like most American Citizens,... we are busy keeping our heads above water with the rest of the problems this country is facing...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by coastlinekid
 


It's a sign, nothing more. Probably costs a lot less than other silly public projects.

Think of it as the production of it kept felons idle hands busy for a short while.

And we all know that idle hands are the devils....well, you get the picture.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by TDawgRex
 


On one level, I agree with you,... it is just a sign.
I don't dwell on it... and lament on why everyone doesn't think like me...
Again,... it is the principle of the thing...
I was raised with religion,...and I supposed that makes me more aware how religion seeps and creeps into daily life,... if I want it to or not...all these little things add up,... and I feel it is my duty to myself, and this republic,...that I acknowledge the insidious nature of religion in this secular nation...and attempt to thwart that incursion...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:14 PM
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It is a sign. It is a symbol of honor to those who have died. How can a symbol of goodness and honor be offending? Wether it was christian or budist or anything else, it is simply a heartfelt gesture of rememberance and honor, and it is a disgrace to carry on like it is something so bad and offensive.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:22 PM
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reply to post by Night Star
 


Yes, that's exactly the point.


People need to get in the habit of looking at the intentions behind words, rather than twisting words to use as weapons against each other.



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