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New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims

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posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ryanp5555

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
So, you are saying that you are equally opposed and equally as passionate about Zeus Court?


I couldn't give 2 flyin' craps about Zeus Court, 7 in Heaven, or Mohamed St. However, if someone is against the 7 in Heaven, they should certainly be against, Zeus, no?


Yeah. Did I quote you on when I asked about the Zeus Court thing? I meant to quote Drummer because he says he has been consistent with his views but has refused to answer that question, trying to claim immunity because his answer was in his other response (however it seems more like a tactic to get around the question).


Which question? Am I against "Zeus Court"? Yes.
What other fantasy scenarios would you like me to entertain?


It's not a fantasy scenario. Not sure how you got that. The question was posed whether you would be equally passionate about Zeus Court as you are with Seven in Heaven. It's a valid question because if you're honest answer, and only you really know if it's your honest answer, and turns out to be that you are more against Seven in Heaven than it shows you are fueled by your hatred for Christianity, and not some pie in the sky lets do this to uphold the law train of thought. The truth of the matter is that the Supreme Court Justices have had many instances of not following the "law." Why? Political Ideology, Religious Ideology, because they are humans. I mean I understand where you are coming from in not wanting to waste tax money on something that is religious. However, I feel like the entire bickering about an HONORARY street sign is insane. It is NOT the actual name of the road. So, the entire thing is just a waste of time. I'd rather see those people be productive at actually making the world a better place than worry about a street sign for a road that probably just leads into the fire house.
edit on 22-6-2011 by Ryanp5555 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by TheOrangeBrood
 


reply to post by Ryanp5555
 



Is there anyway we can keep this from going into the realm of the absurd? Atheism didn't cause 9/11 anymore than than Islam or Christianity.

And we shouldn't be seeking more ways to insult each other over our PERSONAL beliefs. Over a freakin' street sign.

This is pathetic.


You are correct. Sorry everyone.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by Ancient Champion
 


reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Heaven is a general enough term to be acceptable in the public areas. Even some atheists believe in heaven. Heaven takes no favors of any religion, and indeed, in many ways it is not a religious institution, merely a concept of belief that religions claim to know how to get there. Heaven in a subjective and objective idea.

So really, both of you, shut up. It's a memorial and in the public field. It's ok to keep it up.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood



It's probably just because religion is the foothold for the entire thing..

.
edit on 22-6-2011 by TheOrangeBrood because: (no reason given)


Is this the truth? Or is it simply a popular expression. Should we be campaigning against the word "Damn". GOD, Hell and Heaven? Even atheists use popular language. More importantly is this an academic issue or is it or deep importance?

I say it is pure trivia. I have more pressing iussues than Mohamed drive, Heaven's gate or even st anybody's drive.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:02 PM
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dont call me an atheist how the hell can i not believe in something that doesnt exist in the first place???



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Yes but by current precedent if a Christian group has the ability to do this wouldn't say.. Atheist groups or Hindu groups...

Perhaps including everyone of every faith is an option that would also accomplish the same end.. rather than exclude everyone...

Just saying..
edit on 22-6-2011 by DaMod because: (no reason given)


A city in Washington State a few years ago tried to accommodate all faiths in expressing their feelings about their December holidays in the City Hall. It was a huge mess and invited petty disputes and litter of all kinds of religious messages and statues. Finally they put an end to expression of ANY faith in the city hall. As it should have been. Government should not be an outlet for the expression of any religious faith.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


See thats the problem with atheist's they dont just not believe in God, there out to bash God its pretty pathetic actually if you ask me



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Ryanp5555
It's a valid question because if you're honest answer, and only you really know if it's your honest answer, and turns out to be that you are more against Seven in Heaven than it shows you are fueled by your hatred for Christianity, and not some pie in the sky lets do this to uphold the law train of thought.


I'd be much more opposed to your fantasy "Zeus Court" than I would by this sign.

I've explained my position to death on this, yet you still insist that it must somehow be about my "hatred for christianity" (even though I've said several times I'd stand by christians to preserve their rights). If you need to maintain some disdain for atheists that's fine but don't present false straw men or try to tell me what I'm really thinking. If you wish to discuss this please get on the same page.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


See thats the problem with atheist's they dont just not believe in God, there out to bash God its pretty pathetic actually if you ask me


Perhaps the problem with the religious is that they make wild, incorrect assumptions about people they know nothing about. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by Ancient Champion
 


Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion. If this was something that effects the firefighter's abilities than I would jump on it but there is nothing wrong with saying heaven. If atheists are offended than so be it. It is not offensive and the majority believe in heaven, if you think it is offensive than you need to get over yourself.

This is not meant to provoke anyone it was just honoring the 9/11 victims.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Actually Zeus court exists..

Just thought you should know..



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
if heaven doesn't exist, why do atheists get so mad at every little thing that references God or Jesus.

you know why, people will think i'm crazy. i don't think twice about santa claus and his existence.

but atheists, they go nuts over something that supposedly doesn't exist.

maybe atheists should take a deep, long look at something that supposedly doesn't exist, but is affecting them so tremendously.

Mainly because people actually believe in gods and not Santa Claus? Some believe in gods so much that they act on their beliefs and harm others. True, others act on their beliefs and help others. It's the ones that harm others that we should be wary of. And by harm, I mean both physically and emotionally.

Think about homosexuals who want to get married. Religious folk do not want that to happen. What about stem cell research? etc.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Ancient Champion
 

Would these athiests be upset over the word "Church" in the yellow pages?

Just wondering. . . .

Simply idiotic. The street sign is taxpayer funded, and contains heaven, a clear and obvious reference to christinaity. Having the name of a church listed in a phonebook is not the same as that.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by randomname
if heaven doesn't exist, why do atheists get so mad at every little thing that references God or Jesus.

i don't believe in santa claus, but i don't freak out at Christmas, or go to a shopping mall with a balaclava, surround the shopping mall santa and hold up signs.

you know why, people will think i'm crazy. i don't think twice about santa claus and his existence.

but atheists, they go nuts over something that supposedly doesn't exist.

maybe atheists should take a deep, long look at something that supposedly doesn't exist, but is affecting them so tremendously.






edit on 21-6-2011 by randomname because: (no reason given)


If they look too hard they might find that God does exist meaning they need to change their whole concept of life and (God forbid) even need to change themselves. We couldn't have that now could we. "Damn I stepped in #, where's a Christian I can blame."



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
It's a valid question because if you're honest answer, and only you really know if it's your honest answer, and turns out to be that you are more against Seven in Heaven than it shows you are fueled by your hatred for Christianity, and not some pie in the sky lets do this to uphold the law train of thought.


I'd be much more opposed to your fantasy "Zeus Court" than I would by this sign.

I've explained my position to death on this, yet you still insist that it must somehow be about my "hatred for christianity" (even though I've said several times I'd stand by christians to preserve their rights). If you need to maintain some disdain for atheists that's fine but don't present false straw men or try to tell me what I'm really thinking. If you wish to discuss this please get on the same page.


First off, Zeus Court is REAL and it is in NEW YORK. Did you miss that in the thread? That was the point. You're sitting there talking about this particular area making the claim that you'd care equally about Zeus Court, but have made no comments on it. It's just interesting.

And this isn't some agenda I have against atheism. In fact it is the other way around. If you think that atheists protesting this, you know the ones making the news about it, are simply doing it because its religious connotations and implications on the first amendment then you're not living in the real world. This was done as part of an agenda, period. There are thousands of more vastly important areas that these people should be worried about when it comes to the government stampeding on our individual liberties guaranteed to us by the Billl of Rights. Yet they are choosing to pick on an honorary sign in New York.

Is it a Constitutional violation? Probably. But then again that all depends on what Judge you get. However, is it worth our breath at this present moment? ABSOLUTELY NOT! Someone else brought up a bigger issue, a bigger violation of the Bill of Rights: In God We Trust on EVERY PIECE OF MONEY! Again, is this as important as a million other Constitutional issues out there right now? Hell no. But is it more important than a stupid sign in New York City? YUP!

And, to top it all of, it isn't even completely clear that this is a violation of the constitution. Again, the Gov't would have to establish in Court that the sign was (1) secular in purpose (2) does not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion; and (3) there was no excessive government entanglement with religion. The question is not whether the government can EVER be affiliated with Religious speech. Ever seen a church use a public school for a mass at times when school was not in session?
edit on 22-6-2011 by Ryanp5555 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by Lionhearte

There should be no signage or displays of religious nature in the public domain. It’s really insulting to us.


Hahahahahahaha!
Oh man, I haven't laughed that hard in a long, long time.


So, let me get this street. An ATHEIST, who does NOT believe in any Religion, or God/Gods, is offended by someone else's faith?

Does no one see the ignorance here? Why do Atheists have to be so militant about Christians? Why can't they just shut the hell up? They're being more annoying then a simple sign on a street would ever be.


Because religion out of control begets the persecution of the non-religious. Spanish Inquisition, anyone?

Point being, this country was not founded on Christian principles. Ask any of your neighboring Christians how happy they would be to see a "Qur'an Street" in their backyard? Probably not very happy about the idea, I'm wagering.

Sure, we all enjoy freedom of religion and expression in this country, but privately. Openly we must adhere to a policy of moderation in our views. If you want to plaster the word Jesus all over your walls, you're free to do that in your own home. But when you're out in public, I'm sure you, as well as the next guy, are happy to see public neutrality towards religious expression.

I bet you weren't too happy about that Mosque built so close to the old WTC location, right? What makes you think giving a street name religious significance is less relevant?

Is your argument "oh, but it's just a street for crying out loud". Sure. But the Mosque is just a building, that you will never have any interest in entering. For crying out loud.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by DaMod
If a person is allowed religious freedom then why can a religious group not honor someone the way they believe?


They can.
But they can't do it out of the public coffers because that violates the religious freedoms of others.


Im really trying to be on your side here because I respect your right to believe, and profess your beliefs. Are you saying that if all religous sects were brought together (including Atheists) and the christians were footing the bill for the sign, you would at some level be ok with it or would there still be an issue with the meaning of sign?

Because at the end of the day, some one is not going to be happy



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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I don't get it. As someone mentioned, an atheist shouldn't care much about this; at most this should be amusing to them.

On another hand, a true religious person does not care about that either. A true religious person recognizes the right of everyone and above all, she recognizes that God is present in everything, people and things alike. No point in trying to convert anyone if all there is nothing outside God.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Folks the 7 in heaven is about the 7 firemen who died from that paticular fire house. It is not about the other people who died that day in the towers.



posted on Jun, 22 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by guitarplayer
Folks the 7 in heaven is about the 7 firemen who died from that paticular fire house. It is not about the other people who died that day in the towers.


Why are we continually glorifying these Firemen? The Police and Firemen who died in the WTC were doing their jobs, something they specifically signed up for when they accepted the position. It's disgusting how much the families of those city workers killed are trying to soak up as much pity and money as they have.

Shameless.



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