New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

And how exactly do they do that?

By assuring that one group doesn't pay for the religious beliefs and sentiments of another group. Religious freedom includes the right not to be forced to finance beliefs you don't subscribe to.

reply to post by Annee

Heaven is a religious term. Sorry - but you can not dismiss it - to try and make this non-religious.

I would say that it is not only a noun and a religious term. But like Valhalah and Elysium are also part of ancient
history so is Heaven. Thereby by rendering the reason for this protest to speculative and assuming at best.

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof......"

10th Amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

So, since CONGRESS didn't make any law, and since we have State's Rights, it seems to me that this is a shut case. The state (New York) can make a sign that has the word "Heaven" (which doesn't point to any particular religion), and that the atheists are simply trying to impose THEIR religion of "no religion" on everyone else.

No, the first amendment is incorporated through the fourteenth amendment to the states. Almost every one of the bill of rights is incorporated by the fourteenth amendment to the states.

reply to post by Annee


Well. I suppose this will eventually go to court. I'm confident a court would agree that this sign is in no way violating the first amendment.

Either way it goes, I don't think this is a big deal and don't know why people are making it such a big deal. It's a street sign. Who cares?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

Show me where taxes have anything to do with the topic. "New York Atheists Angry Over "Heaven" Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims. But if you wanna go there then sure: Costs of a typical street sign as pictured in the OP costs between 25$ and 125$. Divide whichever one you want by 19,541,453 and tell me how much that hits your pocket book.

I don't care if it was a fraction of a penny. We don't use public funds - derived from everyone - to finance a religious belief that is exclusive only to some. Keeping religiosity off our public domain protects everyone.

Some may not see it as an issue since they may agree with it. But put up a street sign that says "Allah Is The Only True God Lane" and I assure you people will object and rightfully so.

Harrodsburg, Kentucky has an Allah Avenue. Ain't seen too many protest there lately.

reply to post by CastleMadeOfSand


I'm wondering which of my last 10 posts were off topic.

And which of your last 10 posts were on topic.

I'm not leaving this thread, because I am participating in the discussion.

You are flailing and calling people names and dictating their emotions for them.

You are a rude individual and I do not approve of your behavior and therefore owe you, and your sad "opinion" that you shamelessly defend with non-linear arguments, no respect whatsoever.

I'll ask you a fourth time, though...

How is the pervasive differences in the signage relevant at all?

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
The state (New York) can make a sign that has the word "Heaven" (which doesn't point to any particular religion)

No, they can't and "heaven" points to the beliefs of several religions.

, and that the atheists are simply trying to impose THEIR religion of "no religion" on everyone else.

How so? Atheism is not a religion and they're not demanding any kind of statement about religion either pro or con.

Im a athiest,and personaly I could care less what they call it.
But for the heck of it,since there are always gonna be someone who isnt gonna like it,why not call it something neutral?
Like Rememberence Way,Freedom Blvd, or whatever.

And one more thing,why are they so sure everyone in those buildings went to heaven?
Just cause they died didnt mean they were "heaven worthy".

Maybe Hell St?
Nah that would be a bit much.

Either way its just a stupid sign,theres more important things happening in the world.

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Ancient Champion

 

Would these athiests be upset over the word "Church" in the yellow pages?

Just wondering. . . .

I'm atheist and I live on Church Street in Toronto. Atheists aren't offended when things aren't offensive. Dismissing the religious-inspired deaths of heroes of the 9/11 tragedies by saying "It's okay, religion actually saved them now that they're dead".... you can push these "beliefs" all you want if it makes you feel better... if you fund such operations personally and on personal property. There is no reason that tax payer should be forced to pick up a bill for a change based on religious values that many civilians that make up the population do not subscribe to. Personal interests are personal interests, so do them personally. It really is that simple.

edit on 22-6-2011 by TheOrangeBrood because: (no reason given)

I agree that tax payers shouldn't have to pick up he tab for something they don't believe in. Let's get rid of abortion/planned parenthood/NEA/PBS/Dept. of Education.

Right on brother!!!!!

Originally posted by The Baby Seal Club

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by CastleMadeOfSand

Show me where taxes have anything to do with the topic. "New York Atheists Angry Over "Heaven" Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims. But if you wanna go there then sure: Costs of a typical street sign as pictured in the OP costs between 25$ and 125$. Divide whichever one you want by 19,541,453 and tell me how much that hits your pocket book.

I don't care if it was a fraction of a penny. We don't use public funds - derived from everyone - to finance a religious belief that is exclusive only to some. Keeping religiosity off our public domain protects everyone.

Some may not see it as an issue since they may agree with it. But put up a street sign that says "Allah Is The Only True God Lane" and I assure you people will object and rightfully so.

Harrodsburg, Kentucky has an Allah Avenue. Ain't seen too many protest there lately.

Surname Analysis: Allah

reply to post by Athens13


Atheism isn't really "personal", it's totally IMpersonal, when you really think about it, there's nothing personal about it, about a pointless, meaningless and absurd existence going nowhere, so hey, why DO they care? It makes no sense.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
No, they can't and "heaven" points to the beliefs of several religions.

The 1st Amendment was to prevent the government from imposing a theology, a single religious belief. By NO means is it meant to be freedom FROM ALL RELIGION. Period.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
How so? Atheism is not a religion and they're not demanding any kind of statement about religion either pro or con.

These atheists, and possibly yourself, are as fanatical about your "religion" as any fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. Absolutely bat sh*t crazy about it. That's how.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Atheism isn't really "personal", it's totally IMpersonal, when you really think about it, there's nothing personal about it, about a pointless, meaningless and absurd existence going nowhere, so hey, why DO they care? It makes no sense.

Except that has nothing to do with atheism.

You just defined nihilism

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Athens13

 

Atheism isn't really "personal", it's totally IMpersonal, when you really think about it, there's nothing personal about it, about a pointless, meaningless and absurd existence going nowhere, so hey, why DO they care? It makes no sense.

They care, they'll claim, that its because it violates the constitution. And they want the US to follow its laws. While admirable, a far greater violation of the constitution is happening in Illinois (In my opinion). Illinois is now the only state to not allow a person to carry a concealed weapon for self defense. Yet it has a city with one of the largest murder rates, if not the largest murder rate, in the country.

Originally posted by babybunnies

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ancient Champion

The victims of 911 are honored by the naming of a street "Seven in Heaven Way" and the NY atheist get mad try to have the sign removed. If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!

edit on 21-6-2011 by Ancient Champion because: added more words

Yeah. Those crappy atheists, fighting to preserve America's important rights. They should just shut the heck up because YOU like the sign. That's all that matters, right?

Exactly. What about seperation of Church and State? This sign is a direct contravention of the US Constitution.

THis sign has nothing to do with separation of Church and State. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Separation of church and state means keeping the government and religious institutions apart and independent of each other. It protects the secularity of the government and the freedom of religious exercise. A street sign has nothing to do with that concept. Heaven is not a concept of 1 particular religion. Many religion shave an a version of heaven.

But in all seriousness how on earth does it violate separation of church and state? If you think it does I don't think you grasp the concept.

I don't hear a lot of Christians complaining about Devil's road or all the mile marker 666s. It's a street sign. It's not adversely affecting anyone. Unlike the protestors exercising their constitutional right to protest a memorial. People need to get overthemselves.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Ancient Champion

 

Would these athiests be upset over the word "Church" in the yellow pages?

Just wondering. . . .

I'm atheist and I live on Church Street in Toronto. Atheists aren't offended when things aren't offensive. Dismissing the religious-inspired deaths of heroes of the 9/11 tragedies by saying "It's okay, religion actually saved them now that they're dead".... you can push these "beliefs" all you want if it makes you feel better... if you fund such operations personally and on personal property. There is no reason that tax payer should be forced to pick up a bill for a change based on religious values that many civilians that make up the population do not subscribe to. Personal interests are personal interests, so do them personally. It really is that simple.

edit on 22-6-2011 by TheOrangeBrood because: (no reason given)

I agree that tax payers shouldn't have to pick up he tab for something they don't believe in. Let's get rid of abortion/planned parenthood/NEA/PBS/Dept. of Education.

Right on brother!!!!!

I have absolutely no problem with those institutions being paid for solely by those who profit from their services...

... which leaves abortion publicly funded for low income families, because all of society benefits from not having to support an unwanted child.

It also leaves the FDA and PBS broke.

How about...

"Norad Stood Down Blvd"

or

"Controlled Demolition Ave"

or

"False Flag Rd"

You would deem none of those acceptable, so why is it acceptable to push a religious group's(any - not targeting just christians) agenda?

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Athens13

 

Atheism isn't really "personal", it's totally IMpersonal, when you really think about it, there's nothing personal about it, about a pointless, meaningless and absurd existence going nowhere, so hey, why DO they care? It makes no sense.

Really?

"about a pointless, meaningless and absurd existence going nowhere"

You speak from your own perspective.
Im an athiest,and I dont view life as any of what you mentioned.
Absurd? I dont think so,in fact its a wonderful existance.
And as to where it goes,well thats up to what a believe,is the person to take life somewhere.
By their choices and actions,not by the "hand of god".

But cheers to ya

Originally posted by navy_vet_stg3
The 1st Amendment was to prevent the government from imposing a theology, a single religious belief. By NO means is it meant to be freedom FROM ALL RELIGION. Period.

Except in this case the government imposed a religious sentiment, funded by those who don't share it.

These atheists, and possibly yourself, are as fanatical about your "religion" as any fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. Absolutely bat sh*t crazy about it. That's how.

That's your argument? Well, it's not a religion and I don't care whether anyone else becomes an atheist or not. I do, however, care a lot about our individual rights. It's a shame that you misinterpret the defense of liberty with religious zeal.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Annee

 

Well. I suppose this will eventually go to court. I'm confident a court would agree that this sign is in no way violating the first amendment.

Either way it goes, I don't think this is a big deal and don't know why people are making it such a big deal. It's a street sign. Who cares?

I personally have no problem with the sign. It is a nice sentiment. And I know you are a nice guy from that other thread.

But - - Atheists must speak up in such situations. Just as the religious must speak up to protect their rights.