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Can anyone explain to me why christianity and the christian god make any sense?

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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:18 PM
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From my understanding of christianity, god existed before anything else. Before he spoke creation into existence, there was no life as we know it, no earth, no people, no reason for atonement.

From what I've understood as a former christian, the biblical god is all-knowing and all-powerful. He exists outside of space and time, somehow. Am I right about that so far?

So, before he created anything, he already knew what was going to happen. If he didn't, he wouldn't be all-knowing. This means that before he spoke he knew that 1/3 of the angels that he was about to create would rebel. He also knew that one of them, Satan, would tempt his first human creations, and they would fall also. Then, he knew he would have to devise a way to forgive them, and that would be through blood sacrifice (when at this time, blood didn't even exist). He also knew that he would be at one point happy with his creation, and then later saddened by it and wish he hadn't done it. He also knew that he was going to have to flood the entire earth, but save 8 people and a bunch of animals.

Ultimately, he knew that because he devised a way for man to be forgiven and reconciled to him that he was going to have to become one of us and die so that he could reconcile us to himself because of this rule he made up, but that there would be many, many, many more who wouldn't believe this or accept it and he was going to have to torture them forever in fire, along with the fallen angels because there is apparently no other way around it.

So here he is, wherever he was...doing whatever he did before he created anything, he then said, "Let there be light".

How does any of this make any sense?




posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Hydroman
 


Short answer: Upbringing and a willingness to believe coupled with the peculiarities of human psychology lend themselves to believing in incredibly fantastic tales, often to the point of accepting them as reality.

Really short answer: Neither makes sense.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:24 PM
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I don't claim to have all the answers, OP, but I would like for you to consider a single question. If you could know and fully understand how your own life was going to go before beginning it -- all its ups and downs, heartaches and disappointments, joys and sorrows -- would you choose to live it? Maybe it's not so different for the Big Guy.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by graceunderpressure
I don't claim to have all the answers, OP, but I would like for you to consider a single question. If you could know and fully understand how your own life was going to go before beginning it -- all its ups and downs, heartaches and disappointments, joys and sorrows -- would you choose to live it? Maybe it's not so different for the Big Guy.

If I already knew those things, I wouldn't have to live it. Besides, I must already be alive in some sense to even know those things.

But to truly answer your question, it would depend on what my life entails. If I were to become Hitler, no I would not want to live it. If I were to have the life I have now, then yes, as far as I can tell as of yet.

edit on 21-6-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:41 PM
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All I can say is this , everybody is clueless of who God is ,and his/her intentions , but I can tell you this, you will know when you die



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by bdb818888
All I can say is this , everybody is clueless of who God is ,and his/her intentions , but I can tell you this, you will know when you die

Too bad we can't know while we live, eh?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by bdb818888
 


...le sigh.

I've already addressed this in another thread. Not all theistic claims are attached to afterlife concepts and not all afterlife concepts relate to a deity. What if there is a deity who exists but there is no afterlife? How would death help us understand that?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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Op let me ask you something? Are you glad you are alive? You enjoy food, smiling, living right? I myself am greatful I'm alive. I love life. I wouldn't want God to change his mind. It's beautiful even with the suffering.

It is said that (one) soul who becomes saintly for God is worth more than 100s who have no need of repentance.

God cherishes the souls who will decide in life to follow him. They become part of him, his companions. He made us for the souls that would make it.

It FAR outwieghs the evil that didn't make it. The souls in hell suffer their own choices, they wanted that. Like I said only God knows the hearts of the souls in hell.

It's like an afterlife jail, but God deems the right punishment. You can't allow evil in heaven.


Now as for what God was doing before earth existed.

That is a mystery noone can know.

take care OP.
edit on 21-6-2011 by JesusisTruthh because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by JesusisTruthh
 


and for the people that did not believein god and yet did no evil? are they still confised to the 'after life jail'?


as u can see, I am not a believer and it doesnt make sense for me.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by David291
reply to post by JesusisTruthh
 


and for the people that did not believein god and yet did no evil? are they still confised to the 'after life jail'?


as u can see, I am not a believer and it doesnt make sense for me.



Who says they didn't convert at death? I didn't believe in God and I did evil, and God converted me. You think Gods gonna allow people in hell who don't sin? No.

All souls are led to where they are led to. God knows what's in the heart. Trust me, at the judgement seat he'll show you why people are in hell who are there.

good day.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
Op let me ask you something? Are you glad you are alive? You enjoy food, smiling, living right? I myself am greatful I'm alive. I love life. I wouldn't want God to change his mind. It's beautiful even with the suffering.

Sure I am, but not everyone shares our opinion. That's why there are many suicides.



Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
God cherishes the souls who will decide in life to follow him. They become part of him, his companions. He made us for the souls that would make it.

It FAR outwieghs the evil that didn't make it. The souls in hell suffer their own choices, they wanted that. Like I said only God knows the hearts of the souls in hell.

Everyone suffering in hell wanted it? You said only your god knows their hearts, yet you seem to think you know their hearts too by saying they want to suffer....?


Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
It's like an afterlife jail, but God deems the right punishment. You can't allow evil in heaven.

What jails do you know of where people are burned forever? How is torture in fire the right punishment? Because your god says it is, therefore it's good enough for you? Anything he says is good, is good, right? You can't decide for yourself?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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Okay to start off with I would have to say that we are all humans and that everything we can come up with for this question is only a theory.

I'm still reading the bible so I only have a bit of what it says down in my head. But here are my thoughts on this.

God didn't and doesn't know what was going to happen in the future. But he is very smart and knowing us well, since he did make us, he knows how we are going to be, life as a whole. He predicts how angels who are with him are and who have fallen will think and act also.

He didn't know half of the angels where going to try to fight him. He knew it was a possiblitys. The Bible only tells you what is important. How it happened or what happened between his most powerful angel who has a lot of gods powers and what was created by the angel after during their fight we don't know.

Yes God is all knowing and all powerful. But when it comes to time and knowing the future you forget something. You have to think it through or else you will have conclusions before you realize you have the answer. Philosophy however useless or not people think. Helps you fully learn something by thought alone. Philosophy was the birth of math and physics.

Anyway, Time doesn't exist. There is no future or past. Only the present and memory of your past, in your mind and on paper and such.

You need to understand that time is the calculation of "motion" by using a constant (like the half-life of an atom or something like it) that happens at the same rate all the time compared to another objects usually moving or aging.

We live in a 3 dimensional existence by my research everything must follow that set of rules. So let’s say nothing existed and you put a ball into this void of nothing. Can you tell the time? No, why? You have nothing to measure with so time doesn't exist. Let’s put 2 balls in the void and let’s make one explode and re-explode INF, also let the first ball move in any direction. Let’s say both balls are an inch big. After the second ball explodes 60 times, you see the 1st ball moved 3 inches.

Only until you have 1 objects being measured by a constant that you can perceive time.

If you understand what I'm getting at then you should realize now that time doesn’t exist because it’s only in your perception but it’s not actually what you think you are seeing. It’s like an illusion. What you see is motion. What your doing is Measuring it by a constant while you are in the present and what you think it is all together is time.

So 1 day = the sun rising and setting around you (moving around you) = while you measure it by a constant in the present.

Hope that made sense.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
All souls are led to where they are led to. God knows what's in the heart. Trust me, at the judgement seat he'll show you why people are in hell who are there.
good day.

All souls are led to where they are led to? So some are led to evil? Wtf?

It is my opinion that no matter what anyone has done in this short life on earth, they don't deserve to burn for ALL OF ETERNITY.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
All souls are led to where they are led to. God knows what's in the heart. Trust me, at the judgement seat he'll show you why people are in hell who are there.
good day.

All souls are led to where they are led to? So some are led to evil? Wtf?

It is my opinion that no matter what anyone has done in this short life on earth, they don't deserve to burn for ALL OF ETERNITY.



No man I meant: All souls are led to the path they chose themselves. They aint led to hell by force, they chose it. And the reason hell is eternal is because God removes graces from them and they don't want God and they don't want to change.

1,000 years pass, they still wanna be there. Their states are fixed in evil. God doesn't supply any more graces to those souls.

There is no way to explain that to you, what grace is.

He can't let evil in heaven.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by shadowx089
Okay to start off with I would have to say that we are all humans and that everything we can come up with for this question is only a theory.

I'm still reading the bible so I only have a bit of what it says down in my head. But here are my thoughts on this.

God didn't and doesn't know what was going to happen in the future. But he is very smart and knowing us well, since he did make us, he knows how we are going to be, life as a whole. He predicts how angels who are with him are and who have fallen will think and act also.

He didn't know half of the angels where going to try to fight him. He knew it was a possiblitys. The Bible only tells you what is important. How it happened or what happened between his most powerful angel who has a lot of gods powers and what was created by the angel after during their fight we don't know.

Yes God is all knowing and all powerful. But when it comes to time and knowing the future you forget something. You have to think it through or else you will have conclusions before you realize you have the answer. Philosophy however useless or not people think. Helps you fully learn something by thought alone. Philosophy was the birth of math and physics.

Anyway, Time doesn't exist. There is no future or past. Only the present and memory of your past, in your mind and on paper and such.

You need to understand that time is the calculation of "motion" by using a constant (like the half-life of an atom or something like it) that happens at the same rate all the time compared to another objects usually moving or aging.

We live in a 3 dimensional existence by my research everything must follow that set of rules. So let’s say nothing existed and you put a ball into this void of nothing. Can you tell the time? No, why? You have nothing to measure with so time doesn't exist. Let’s put 2 balls in the void and let’s make one explode and re-explode INF, also let the first ball move in any direction. Let’s say both balls are an inch big. After the second ball explodes 60 times, you see the 1st ball moved 3 inches.

Only until you have 1 objects being measured by a constant that you can perceive time.

If you understand what I'm getting at then you should realize now that time doesn’t exist because it’s only in your perception but it’s not actually what you think you are seeing. It’s like an illusion. What you see is motion. What your doing is Measuring it by a constant while you are in the present and what you think it is all together is time.

So 1 day = the sun rising and setting around you (moving around you) = while you measure it by a constant in the present.

Hope that made sense.

First, are you a christian? That is what this thread is about, christianity and does it make any sense?
Second, time as we have defined it, does exist. But it can be measure many different ways depending on your point of reference. An all-powerful, all-knowing deity would possibly have a different point of reference than we do but should be able to communicate "time" in our terms so that we can understand the message it is trying to get across.
If the biblical god isn't all-knowing, how did he know that his plan to pass his seed to Mary was going to work (if that actually happened)? Did he risk it?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
Op let me ask you something? Are you glad you are alive? You enjoy food, smiling, living right? I myself am greatful I'm alive. I love life. I wouldn't want God to change his mind. It's beautiful even with the suffering.

Sure I am, but not everyone shares our opinion. That's why there are many suicides.


Would you want to not exist because a few commit suicide?



Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
God cherishes the souls who will decide in life to follow him. They become part of him, his companions. He made us for the souls that would make it.

It FAR outwieghs the evil that didn't make it. The souls in hell suffer their own choices, they wanted that. Like I said only God knows the hearts of the souls in hell.

Everyone suffering in hell wanted it? You said only your god knows their hearts, yet you seem to think you know their hearts too by saying they want to suffer....?


No, God said to many saints and in scripture that the souls their chose it. life without God and grace.


Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
It's like an afterlife jail, but God deems the right punishment. You can't allow evil in heaven.

What jails do you know of where people are burned forever? How is torture in fire the right punishment? Because your god says it is, therefore it's good enough for you? Anything he says is good, is good, right? You can't decide for yourself?






How is fire not the right punishment? Who said it wasn't in the spiritual sense. a fire of hatred? literal flames can't burn a soul. We don't know what God meant. I can decide for myself and I have. I love God.

laters.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
He can't let evil in heaven.

He can't let evil in heaven? Would you say god resides in heaven? Would you say satan is evil? If the answer is yes to both of those, how is it that satan and god have conversations? How did satan get in god's presence to talk with him, such as in the story of Job?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by bdb818888
All I can say is this , everybody is clueless of who God is ,and his/her intentions , but I can tell you this, you will know when you die


And how do you know that...now?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
Would you want to not exist because a few commit suicide?

Lol, that wasn't my point. My point was that not everyone shares our opinions that we love life. There are those who do not love life and have proved it.


Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
How is fire not the right punishment? Who said it wasn't in the spiritual sense. a fire of hatred? literal flames can't burn a soul. We don't know what God meant. I can decide for myself and I have. I love God.
laters.

A fire of hatred? Where did you get that? From the bible? How do you know literal flames can't burn a soul? What is a soul and how do you know we have one?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 04:17 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by JesusisTruthh
He can't let evil in heaven.

He can't let evil in heaven? Would you say god resides in heaven? Would you say satan is evil? If the answer is yes to both of those, how is it that satan and god have conversations? How did satan get in god's presence to talk with him, such as in the story of Job?



You are trying to trick me dude. Come on. I meant live in heaven, dwell there for eternity.

God came down to Satan.



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