Garabandal, The Story of the Great Miracle to come !

reply to post by FlyersFan


Everything you posted is wrong.... Where are you getting your info ??? Not from the Church, not from any reliable Garabandal website !!! If folks really want the truth go to the two Websites I have posted regarding Garabandal, don't take my word for it, go see it for yourself and you'll see I just present what I find, nothing added nothing deleted !

Show us in writing I'm wrong... Everything I posted is backup with documents coming from either the Church or Offical Garabandal website !!!
Spatting off lies doesn't change the truth!

Originally posted by gabby2011
to say that what the "church" declares officially, it is not of supernatural nature can mean nothing at all,

To you and me it may mean nothing at all ...
but to someone who claims to be a good catholic .. it is supposed to mean EVERYTHING.
That's why I posted the information about the church declaration.

Aside from the Church declaration, it's pretty damn obvious it's a hoax.
1 - The girls themselves said so and signed documents during the investigation confessing it.
2 - Also a confession that the Eucharistic 'miracle' was really a stolen host.
3 - NONE of the 'prophecies' came true. Not a single one.
4 - The 'ecstasy falls' and backwards walking and backwards floating down the stairs ... all of which can be read about in the Garabandal magazine .... they all reek of the demonic. Mary and 'seers' through the centuries have NEVER acted in any way like that.
5 - 'The night of screams' ... It happened at night when the Holy Mass was taking place in the church. The girls were outside screaming their bloody heads off. Everyone rushed out of the church where worship of God was happening just so they could gawk at the screaming girls who were acting insane. There is NO WAY ... NONE .. that Mary or any heavenly being would do that ... they would NOT drag people away from the worship of God when in fact their mission on earth is supposed to bring people closer to God.

It's a hoax. It could easily be demonic.
The girls say it's a hoax. The church says it's unworthy of belief.
End of story ... except for some fringe folks who, for some reason, won't accept the truth.

Originally posted by MCL1150
Everything you posted is wrong....

No. I everything I posted is correct.

Where are you getting your info ???

From the church. From the Bishops and Cardinals in charge.

Not from the Church, not from any reliable Garabandal website !!!

- Yes from the church.
- There is NO RELIABLE Garabandal website because it has been declared NOT OF SUPERNATURAL ORIGIN. The church has forbid anyone from promoting Garabandal or from organizing pilgrimages there. Anyone who does so is working AGAINST the church. Yet another sign that the Garabandal-Hoax is demonic. It's causing supposed 'good catholics' to work against the church.

Show us in writing I'm wrong...

I already did. I gave documents with bishops names and dates .. and I gave the fact that the bishops represent Rome in this matter ... and the fact that bishop after bishop after bishop in charge of the Garabandal area have all said 'not of supernatural origin.

Everything I posted is backup with documents coming from either the Church or Offical Garabandal website !!!

1 - You have posted no official church documents to back up your claims.
2 - As I said .. there is no 'reliable' Garabandal website because Garabandal itself has been declared 'not of supernatural origin' and obedient Catholics have been told not to promote it ... the church itself said not to promote it. I have given the documentation showing that.

Spatting off lies doesn't change the truth!

You'd best heed your own words.
Honestly .. I don't think you are knowingling telling lies.
I'm sure you just got sucked in because you WANT Garabandal to be true.
But your church has already officially declared it not to be true ... declared it many times.
And so have the hoaxers.

Seriously ... hang it up ... can't you see the demonic in it ... can't you see that it isn't of God .
(silly question ... guess not. )

Catholic documents from the EWTN online library.
(doesn't get any more 'catholic' than that!)
EWTN Library - Garabandal

From the Bishop of Santander Spain (where Garabandal resides in)

1. All the bishops of the diocese from 1961 through 1970 asserted that the supernatural character of the said apparitions, that took place around that time, could not be confirmed. [no constaba].*

2. In the month of December of 1977 Msgr. del Val, Bishop of Santander, in union with his predecessors, affirmed that in the six years of being Bishop of Santander there were no new phenomena.

3. Not withstanding, the same Msgr. del Val, the first years having passed in which there was confusion to enthusiasm, initiated an interdisciplinary study in order to examine with greater profundity these phenomenon. The conclusion of this study coincided with the previous findings by the bishops, which is to say, that it does not prove [no consta] the supernaturality of said apparitions.

NOT OF SUPERNATURAL ORIGIN ... delcared so .... many times.

Right i have to say, i am a spiritual person not a religious person, i was born a catholic, but have no faith in it know. Im not sure that i believe the Jesus story let alone that Mary ascended to Heaven ( i really dont think so, she was an ordinary girl).
Im not convinced these kids made this up, HOWEVER, im not sure if these visions could have been demonic, extra-terrestrial or extra dimensional beings, or just delusions.
That being said, i still find it a very interesting topic, and would like to thank the OP for piqueing my interest again, and to flyersfan for presenting an opposing side.
Marian apparations are fascinating i think, not for why they happen, but for what they actually are.

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
let alone that Mary ascended to Heaven .

I'll clarify something for you ....

The church teaches that Jesus ascended to Heaven under his own power. It is Catholic belief that Mary was ASSUMED into Heaven, which is different. Ascended is under the person's own power. Mary being 'assumed' means that God took Mary into Heaven, she didn't/couldn't do it on her own.

Don't know if that changes your thoughts on it or not .. but I figured I'd clarify it for you since you brought it up.

reply to post by FlyersFan


First of all, EWTN is not a mouthpiece for the Vatican that said, I ask for true Document (from the church) proof that the Church (vatican) denounced the events of Garabandal, not some article from a TV station. You will find no such reports!

Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before becoming Pope Benedict XVI investigated the events of Garabandal for the same reasons why recently the Vatican took away the authority from the local Bishop in Medjugorje, It appears that the local Bishop was, let's say having some personal issuses!!! In the eyes of the Church the local Bishop of Medjugorje wasn't using proper protocol in his investigation so the the Church took his authority away and all final disposition regarding Medjugorje will come from the Vatican. This is the same position taken with Garabandal !

Conchita never said she stole tha Eucharistic ... now I ask you, where did you get that from... show me where Conchita admitted that she did that... there is no such document... I've read everything there is to read on Garabandal, at least six books counless documents and visited many websites that honestly deal with Garabandal, even talked to and exchange letters with folks who have first hand experience and been in Garabandal during these events between 1961-1965.. In all my studies I never came across anything where Conchita reported she faked what's called the annals of Garabandal "the small miracle" miraculous appearance of the Eucharistic on her tongue!!
As for the 'The night of screams', it was on June 19th and 20, in 1962.. In that year Corpus Christi fell on the 21st of June, another bad piece of information you're giving,
Are you sure you're not a Devils Fan ?!?!?!

Originally posted by MCL1150
First of all, EWTN is not a mouthpiece for the Vatican

ETWN is orthodox Catholic and is under the Vatican ... not Birmingham.
For many years prior to being placed under the Vatican, it was pro-Garabandal.
That's because Mother Angelica had a private devotion to it and traveled there.
She is no longer running it and it now comes under the Vatican. Therefore, it is now
in line with what the Church officially says and it only gives out Church information on it.

I ask for true Document (from the church) proof that the Church (vatican) denounced the events of Garabandal,

Thick much? :shk:
I gave it to you ... over and over. The link provides the latest document from the Church.
It is provided in the EWTN library for everyone to see. It came from the Church.

Medjugorje,

Separate issue. Totally different than Garabandal.

This is the same position taken with Garabandal !

Not even close. No matter how you want it to be.

I've read everything there is to read on Garabandal, at least six books counless documents and visited many websites that honestly deal with Garabandal,

All pro-Garabandal I'm sure. Obviously you haven't read enough. Go back and re-read the documents I provided. The official church documents. Garabandal is NOT approved and has been declared not of supernatural origin three times. It's just that simple.

even talked to and exchange letters with folks who have first hand experience and been in Garabandal during these events between 1961-1965..

Irrelevant. As lots of people have personal experiences or THINK they do. TOTALLY IRRELEVANT. The church has made it's delcaration more than once. As a 'good catholic' you are called to obedience - otherwise you are a protestant. Which is it .... are you Catholic or are you protestant? Your ego is getting in the way.

In all my studies ....

You've shown your 'studies' to be severely lacking.

As for the 'The night of screams', it was on June 19th and 20, in 1962.. In that year Corpus Christi fell on the 21st of June,

So what? The priest was having mass in the church at the time. There is more than just Sunday mass ya' know. The village priest was having Mass and told the people not to go to the 'events' but instead to go to mass and pray about them. Then along comes the hoax-apparitions, children screaming their bloody heads off out in the night, and the gawkers left Christ in the Mass to go watch the demonic twists and turns the girls were performing. The backwards walks. The twisted heads. Demonic.

another bad piece of information you're giving,

The information I'm giving is absolutely correct.

Are you sure you're not a Devils Fan ?!?!?!

I like Martin Brodeur but I'm not a fan.

Your ego is in the way of accepting the truth and the declaration of the Church. This is what got the protestants into trouble and this is EXACTLY how the devil works (according to the Catholic Church). To use your terminology .. you are doing the work of the Devil perfectly. You are disobeying the church authority. You think you know better than the church which has had 2,000 years of investigations in these matters.

You still haven't answered the question .... running backwards, twisted heads, bizzare statue like poses, floating backwards down the stairs and out the door (read that one in Garabandal magazine .. an interview with one of the hoaxers mothers), claiming Mary said very strange and unheavenly things .... Does that sound like how St. Bernadette or St Lucia (church approved) sound? Or does it sound like someone playing with a demon?

reply to post by FlyersFan


EWTN is NOT under the Vatican... that's sooooo silly, I've been following EWTN for Years, they are not part of the Church, they just report on the Catholic news and matters, but has no ties like a diocese or business.. You quote one lie after another, you need to go back and do some more research young one !

Everything I post is REAL and can be Verified..
Because you post wrong dates wrong testimony, misquotes and report on things that never happened, anything you write from here on out will be consider false information ! Start getting the story right, and stop being such a DevilsFan !!!!!!

Here's a little something for you to read, this should keep you busy for a while !

THE POSITION OF THE CHURCH

There has been no official statement, issued from Rome, regarding the Church’s opinion on the events of Garabandal.
The Church wisely and prudently withholds her opinion until all that has been prophesied takes place. It is rare for apparitions to be strongly endorsed by Rome, rather they are eventually found to be “worthy of belief”. This was the case at both Lourdes and Fatima.

The local Spanish Bishops have been predictably skeptical. This temperance is commendable as it would be rash to lend apostolic approval to an incomplete apparition. Although Our Lady has not appeared in the village since 1965, the apparition requires the occurrence of the Warning, Miracle, and the Sign left at the Pines to ratify the prophecies and conclude the events. Regarding the theological content of the Messages, in His “Official Note” of July 8, 1965 Bishop Eugenio Beitia of Santander wrote,

“We point out, however, that we have not found anything deserving of ecclesiastical censorship or condemnation either in the doctrine or in the spiritual recommendations that have been publicized as having been addressed to the faithful, for these contain an exhortation to prayer and sacrifice, to Eucharistic devotion, to veneration of Our Lady in traditional praiseworthy ways, and to holy fear of God offended by our sins. They simply repeat the common doctrine of the Church in these matters.”

Originally posted by MCL1150
EWTN is NOT under the Vatican... that's sooooo silly, I've been following EWTN for Years, they are not part of the Church, they just report on the Catholic news and matters, but has no ties like a diocese or business..

(205) 271- 2900 Call 'em. Ask for either the legal dept or for Father Joseph. I VOLUNTEERED THERE for 8 years ... all throught he 90's. It is in the diocese of Birmingham but for church legal matters and matters of obedience it comes under the jurisdiction of ROME. I triple dog dare you to call. They are on central time. Don't talk to the telephone operator ... talk to the Legal Dept or to Father Joseph. Legal used to be Deacon Bill .. but they probably have others there now.

- They report to the Vatican for legal matters and for matters of obedience.
- Their library contains OFFICIAL church documents available for everyone to see online.
- The documents are genuine and authentic.

You quote one lie after another, you need to go back and do some more research young one !

:shk: I'm not lying. And I'm not young. I'm probably much older than you are.

Everything I post is REAL and can be Verified..

You have posted nothing that can be verified. You have posted no links to official church documents. I, on the other hand, have. You have been unable to dispute them. They are fact.

Because you post wrong dates wrong testimony, misquotes and report on things that never happened,

Wrong again. :shk: I didn't post any 'dates'. I posted that there was a mass going on during the night of screams. That's a fact. (there are masses all the time in the Catholic church .. not just on Sunday morning ya' know) The quotes were fine. I reported on things that most certainly did happen.

anything you write from here on out will be consider false information !

Only in your dreams. You can keep saying it over and over .. but that doesn't make it true.

Start getting the story right, and stop being such a DevilsFan !!!!!!

Best go look in the mirror.

Here's a little something for you to read, this should keep you busy for a while !

For all about two seconds. :shk:

There has been no official statement, issued from Rome, regarding the Church’s opinion on the events of Garabandal.

Wrong (again). The local diocese in Santander Spain has FULL AUTHORITY FROM ROME to declare if the events are worthy of belief or not. (example - Betania Venezuela, the local bishop approved the apparitions as worthy of belief which in turn means Rome has). That has not been taken away from the Bishops there.

Already posted ... OFFICIAL church statement.by Msgr. Jose Vilaplana, Bishop of Santander, Spain

1. All the bishops of the diocese from 1961 through 1970 asserted that the supernatural character of the said apparitions, that took place around that time, could not be confirmed. [no constaba].*

2. In the month of December of 1977 Msgr. del Val, Bishop of Santander, in union with his predecessors, affirmed that in the six years of being Bishop of Santander there were no new phenomena.

3. Not withstanding, the same Msgr. del Val, the first years having passed in which there was confusion to enthusiasm, initiated an interdisciplinary study in order to examine with greater profundity these phenomenon. The conclusion of this study coincided with the previous findings by the bishops, which is to say, that it does not prove [no consta] the supernaturality of said apparitions

Reaffirming the church official position - NOT OF SUPERNATURAL ORIGIN ...

source

Face it .. you are promoting something that is false ... you are doing the devils work ... you've been hoodwinked.

Still haven't answered the question .... tell me of one Church-delcared-authentic Marian Visionary who ran backwards; struck grotesque statue posses; twisted their heads around; would lean over fully backwards for people to kiss items that Mary 'blessed' (even though she has no ability to give priestly blessings .. that's theologically impossible). Is Mary going to drag everyone out into the night to watch children scream their heads off ..drag them away from the Church where worship of her Son is going on? Would Bernadette do this? Lucia? Nope. It's clearly DEMONIC.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Just think my Friend, when the World Wide Warning happens you will remember me and I of you because we talked about this with heated passion, I commend you for your valor :-)

Originally posted by MCL1150
Just think my Friend, when the World Wide Warning happens you will remember me and I of you because we talked about this with heated passion, I commend you for your valor :-)

As I said - there most likely WILL be a World Wide Warning (I seriously can't wait!!) - because it's been prophecied down the centuries by many canonized saints. But I honestly don't think you and I will be thinking of anything at that time except what is revealed to us and it will be too mind blowing and hard to handle to be thinking of anything except Christ crucified - IMHO

Guessing the date is impossible. I have been discussing this with a friend of mine ... we have been wondering about October 28th. That's been on our radar for a few months now. But of course, we won't know until the date comes and goes.

MCL1150 - again - .... tell me of one Church-delcared-authentic Marian Visionary who ran backwards; struck grotesque statue posses; twisted their heads around; would lean over fully backwards for people to kiss items that Mary 'blessed' (even though she has no ability to give priestly blessings .. that's theologically impossible). Is Mary going to drag everyone out into the night to watch children scream their heads off ..drag them away from the Church where worship of her Son is going on? Would Bernadette do this? Lucia? Nope. It's clearly DEMONIC.

reply to post by MCL1150


When you are religious you believe all these stories, but they are not necessarily the truth.
It is what you and others believe to be the truth, not necessarily factual truth.
At most they are theories, nothing more, nothing less.
It is still only a belief and I wish that all religious posters preface their posts with "I believe" instead of telling us that it is "the truth".
This problem, of insisting that one's religious belief is the real truth, is at the heart of all religions and the main reason we have the current war between fundementalist christians and muslims and jews.

reply to post by MCL1150


You are wrong - the churches do not espouse "the truth", they espouse "beliefs".
That is the difference.
The arrogance of a church or a religious person to say that what they preach is "the truth" is beyond the pale.
Remember it is only what you "believe", there is no proof at all that it is the "truth".
Religion tries to tell us that there is a "god".
But it cannot prove it, they can only make people "believe" there is a god.

just thinking out loud...

the indisputible 'warning' that all will see & know is from God, or is of supernatural origin
cannot possibly be a mere comet or close fly-by asteroid as one reply suggested...
(the 18 Oct closeness of the Elinin comet)

No, to me, the cosmic 'warning' seen in the sky (?heavens?) has to be inexplicable,
it cannot have a scientific precedent, no matter how rare...


btw... what is this 'warning' supposed to address...
the start of the Great Tribulation?
or perhaps the 1st Beast coming on the world scene
or maybe the actual revealing of the Anti-Christ himsel;f
or when the anti-christ and false prophet take over the Empire and make it the 7 headed/10 horned Beast that is the final & last Empire of Man's rule on Earth?

What might the spectacular sign/sight be?

then what miracle event takes place which will make the Fatama dancing-Sun look like a ho-hum magic trick in comparison..?


these girls had a real active imagination if they conjured up a hoax...
if it is unrightiously called a hoax to delude even the 'faithful' --- welll thats covered in the prophetic scriptures dealing with the end-times eschatology...


here we get into paradox territory

~hmmmmmm

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by thedoctorswife
let alone that Mary ascended to Heaven .

I'll clarify something for you ....

The church teaches that Jesus ascended to Heaven under his own power. It is Catholic belief that Mary was ASSUMED into Heaven, which is different. Ascended is under the person's own power. Mary being 'assumed' means that God took Mary into Heaven, she didn't/couldn't do it on her own.

Don't know if that changes your thoughts on it or not .. but I figured I'd clarify it for you since you brought it up.

Thankyou for explaining it, i had realised they were two different things.

The first part of the 2nd secret of Fatima, after mentioning the end of WWI, predicts "a worse one(war)" "will commence during the reign of Pius XI."

It does not even state "a worse war", it states a "worse one." This wording does not seem to give much emphasis to World War II.

What if the rest of the 2nd secret does not pertain to world war II but to a distinctly separate period in time after world war II?

What if the brief reference of WWII's start date was nothing more than a footnote placed at the start of the prophecy?

The 2nd Fatima Prophecy:

"When you see a night illuminated by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father."

"If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated."

"if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the reign of Pius XI."

(LS)"The pope will be persecuted from all sides, they will shoot at him, they will want to put him to death, but no one will be able to do it,"


Pope Benedict XVI reveals the 3rd Secret of Fatima pertains to the same events predicted by the 2nd Secret. He stated in the year 2000 => "Here it would be appropriate to mention a phrase from the letter which Sister Lucia wrote to the Holy Father on 12 May 1982: “The THIRD PART of the ‘secret' refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not, [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated'”.


I believe that if the Third Secret's fulfillment is of the future, the words mentioned in the 2nd Secret would come to fruition at that time in full, including the arrival of a warmongering Nazi-like Russia that spreads it's errors throughout the world, and the night time sky glowing by means of a supernatural light that would occur before the arrival of a particular nasty persecution against Catholics or Christians in general that would reach practically every nation, with the glowing night preceeding WWIII as well. Or maybe I simply don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

reply to post by MCL1150


I think it is beautiful that your heart sees so much profound hope. That says more about you as a person than anything else, but I ask you to read and re-evaluate what you think or feel you know.

If someone comes preaching or prophecizing something other than the Gospel of Salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ than you can be sure that the original source is not Yahweh.

All this emphasis on Mary, but Mary did not die for us and she was and is not the Son of God. People fall in love with the beauty of how something looks, but the enemy is a master of such disguises. My aunt once took me on a seeing tour with a group of nuns to many of the 'holy' sitings in Spain. What I saw and what I felt was not by any means from my Father in Heaven or my Lord Jesus Christ. It was distinctly pricklish and dark actually. (that is a story in itself).

People are so desperate to believe anything that they have stopped discerning.

"Even if it were possible, in the end days the elect would be decieved"is a phrase that keeps popping into my mind from the Bible.

I fear that perhaps you may be placing your hope in something that is not what it appears.

The other verse that goes through my mind from the Bible is "my people perish from lack of knowledge". In this I can only say that The Word of God is more powerful and true than a vision or a deception. Without a solid foundation in The Word of God, it is easy to be swayed upon seeing anything out of the ordinary.

Originally posted by Egyptia
If someone comes preaching or prophecizing something other than the Gospel of Salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ than you can be sure that the original source is not Yahweh. .

Then you don't have to worry about 'authentic' marian apparitions because in all authentic apparitions Mary leads people to her Son through prayer and through the Church.

reply to post by St Udio


You know that the definition of heaven is where all the "good" people go.
To go to heaven then would be boring and bloody horrible, full of rightious angels with wings on.
That means that heaven is really hell.
And if all the "bad" people go to hell, that would be heavenly, good time girls,parties and piss ups all around.
That would be my idea of heaven.
Therefore heaven is hell and hell is heaven.
Up yours religious rightious pr**ks.
Yahoo!!!!
Arguw that one till the cows come home.