PM says we CAN defend ourselves against burglars without being prosecuted

i hope they let me eat their flesh and put their severed heads on flag poles to warn off any other burglars as it is a pain in the arse having to get a guy in to fit a new window.

Does this reasonable force allow me to skewer them up the arse with a rapier like a scumbag kebab & lock them in my 18th century elm coffin?

Probably not....

Oh well, I can dream.



This will probably end up like something out of Oliver Twist, where the affluent are allowed to shoot urchins with a blunderbus for scrumping apples. What, what, what.
Don't apply to the likes of us Mr.

In all honesty while I am a placid, peace loving pacifist 99% of the time if I woke up to find an intruder in my house I would go ape soup nutz and 'reasonable' would mean nothing to me in that instant.

How can you 'reason' when you suddenly spot a stranger, get that adrenaline rush and shear fear takes over your body? ... as a parent my 'reasoning' would be to protect and I wouldn't waste time asking the intruder "Are you planning on hurting any of my family? Because if you are I need to now build up some adrenaline to slap your face!"

I'd like to see Cameron's reaction to a spider suddenly appearing on his arm. My bet would be that he would automatically react by flicking the beast as far as he could. Is it 'reasonable' to throw a harmless creature 200 times it's body size across a room?

No...

Does 'reason' enter an arachnaphobes head? ... No!

just DON'T break into my house.... simples.

I don't think that this is anything new.

As far as I'm aware, you always have been able to use reasonable force to protect your home from an intruder. The high-profile cases of householders being prosecuted and convicted for assault or murder are because they have gone beyond the use of reasonable force.

Tony Martin shot and killed an unarmed burglar who was running away. In another case from a few years ago, some guy got imprisoned for attacking a burglar because he ran down the street after him and hit him with a cricket bat.

Both of those examples involved an incommensurate use of force by the homeowner.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to be shedding any tears over dead or injured burglars, but what Cameron has said today is just restating the current legal position on this issue - nothing has changed.

Originally posted by AlphaBetaGammaX
I wonder what influenced this decision. (Not to sound too paranoid, but there must be some reason, even if its just better public opinion)

Was there a large outcry from the public lately over this? It'd be nice to see an instance of people raising their voices about an issue like this and getting what they need.

Edit to say, I just saw the crowd-pleasing part, and the bit about diverting attention away from some political bickering. Well, I'd still like to think that the public rose up and demanded this, but maybe it ain't so.

edit on 21-6-2011 by AlphaBetaGammaX because: (no reason given)

Cameron might state that but it is not law until it is passed in parliament.

I wonder though if he is bringing it in as he expects more public unrest and an increase in burglaries as more people find their benefits sanctioned.

Thanks for the replies folks.

Just a quick update on the issue a burglar has been stabbed to death after breaking into a home in Greater Manchester.

Things moe awful fast these days don't they?

www.telegraph.co.uk...

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


Exactly.

No need for a new Law whatsoever, you've always had the right to use "reasonable force". The two cases you cited have been done to death on ATS and both were examples of overstepping the boundaries.

If someone is in your house, by all means give them a good hiding. Dont kill them (unless they are trying to do the same to you) and you'll generally be fine, unless when they run away you chase them down the street and continue to give them a hiding, crippling them for life. Then it will be you going to jail.

Think of it this way. If you see someone laying into an old lady in the street, you can intervene, fight back and either ward of or restrain the individual under a citizens arrest. You wouldn't, while waiting for the police, stamp on his face or snap his neck. That is uncalled for. Remember, even if caught red handed, in the eyes of the Law they are innocent until proven guilty and must be treated as such. You would expect the same.

As for the posters saying people have been suing after they got injured burglarising, please furnish proof. I have only heard of one case like that happening in the past 10 years and it was in the USA. I think it has become an urban myth, to be honest.

reply to post by stumason

I have only heard of one case like that happening in the past 10 years and it was in the USA. I think it has become an urban myth, to be honest.

I blame Liar Liar for that. That was the first place I heard about it. But interestingly have a read of this;

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Some have been warned by police that using wire mesh to reinforce shed windows was ''dangerous’’ and could lead to criminals claiming compensation if they ''hurt themselves’’.

The reasonable force thing is all well and good, but if somebody ever managed to break into my house, they wouldnt be getting out alive.
Lets be honest, who is going to come looking at my house if a burgling scumbag has gone missing?
Unless they tell somebody which house they plan on breaking into before they set off to do it.
Anyway, i know a guy with a pig farm not too far from me.......

3 people in the house have been charged with murder, completely ridiculous.

www.bbc.co.uk...

No wonder people hate the filth so much. They cant catch the real criminals but try to destroy the lives of people who were just trying to to have a quiet time indoors!

Originally posted by stumason

No need for a new Law whatsoever, you've always had the right to use "reasonable force". The two cases you cited have been done to death on ATS and both were examples of overstepping the boundaries.

There clearly is need for a new law as the current one is being abused time and time again, this guy was in the houser when he was stabbed and clearly a threat so they defended themselves and now could face life behind bars.

Its not as if the chased him outside when he was trying to get away.

Originally posted by Flyer
3 people in the house have been charged with murder, completely ridiculous.

www.bbc.co.uk...

No wonder people hate the filth so much. They cant catch the real criminals but try to destroy the lives of people who were just trying to to have a quiet time indoors!

No one has been charged at all, don't exaggerate. It is quite normal for someone who has just stabbed someone else to death to be arrested for Murder while investigations continue. It is by no means an implication of guilt or even a charge. We shall have to wait and see what the outcome of the investigation is as to whether anyone is charged for anything.

For example, the guy might have a valid reason for knifing the guy.

If he can demonstrate that using the knife was a valid defence, ie, he was being threatened with the same or worse, then he will walk.

If he confronted the guys with a knife and they attacked him, leading to one being stabbed, he may get manslaughter but will most likely walk.

If he ambushed them and stabbed them without provocation or warning, then he may well face a murder charge but probably manslaughter on the grounds his home was invaded.

I might add that brandishing a knife in your own home, or even a sword or a bat with a nail in it, is not a criminal offence, unlike if you did the same in the street, ie "possession of an offensive weapon". Such a law does not cover inside a private dwelling.

reply to post by Flyer


Now you're just making stuff up to fit your argument. You or I do not know anything about what happened in that house and it is down to the police to investigate and determine, as best they can, the true sequence of events.

It's best not to jump the gun, calm down and await the outcome of the investigation.

reply to post by Flyer


Oh look!

BBC Story - Same on you posted. Man released without charge

All three, in fact, released without charge. Granted, the man released is to return under his bail conditions, but that is a formality. I strongly suspect he is going to walk from this one...

An lo, no charges will be brought against the chap Flyer said "had been charged" for stabbing the burglar in his home to death (which was a false claim anyway.. Quite telling he hasn't commented at all)

No charges brought against Buglar stab man

Seems we can defend ourselves and all this nonsense in this thread is just knee-jerk paranoia.

reply to post by Big Raging Loner


I don't remember when this was brought into law? , but if it has then it's about time , but time will tell if they say what they mean.
Not saying i don't trust our goverment at their word .....
lol

He is just popularising something that has already been on the statute books since the 18th centuary.

We have always been allowed to use reasonable force to defend our home, our loved ones, or ourselves.

The problem is, theres no definition of what "reasonable force" entails, therefore the police just arrest everyone involved, and let the courts decide if it was reasonable force, and dailyfail stories aside, the courts decide that it was "reasonable force" quite a lot.