Pass legislation to mandate drug testing for welfare recipients

The idea of drug testing before and during state assistance is a fantastic idea.

There are people on welfare eating better than our working class families eat. They're receiving healthcare and other benefits while a large group of the employed population doesn't receive, or can't afford the same benefits.

I would be willing to bet welfare would be cut by 50% if drug tests were given.

I think its fine if a family needs a little help via welfare BUT they should be drug tested. If they're clean no problem. If they aren't than they shouldn't be sitting on the couch strung out while living off the backs of the working.

I would rather do away with welfare altogether.

Drug testing people would just make it more expensive, when it is the cause of most of our problems, the welfare mindset that is.

When we stop rewarding failure, success may be more plentiful.

Originally posted by downtown436
I would rather do away with welfare altogether.

Drug testing people would just make it more expensive, when it is the cause of most of our problems, the welfare mindset that is.

When we stop rewarding failure, success may be more plentiful.

When we stop supporting bullying, there will be less failure.

Originally posted by Bachrk
I think its fine if a family needs a little help via welfare BUT they should be drug tested. If they're clean no problem.

Sure. And the police should have the right to search your home at any time because you too might be using drugs. If you're clean, no problem.

It's amazing how few of you are capable of seeing beyond your envy-based moral crusade.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
instead, tell me why you defend welfare recipients doing drugs on taxpayers' dimes and why you also support welfare recipients to continue populate, clearly displaying that can't take care of the ones they already have.

Just because someone disagrees with government intervention into private lives does NOT mean they support welfare recipients doing drugs. That's another assumption made by your position. Welfare needs reform. The rules need to change to make it MUCH harder to cheat the system. But removing citizens' rights to privacy and to reproduction for ANY reason is not the answer.

The most sensible solution is NOT to spend MORE money to violate the privacy of our citizens. They still maintain human rights, even though they aren't making money right now.

There is a dangerous attitude blowing through ATS lately that if other people are doing something "wrong", they give up their rights and don't deserve their rights and the government should just be able to come in and take their rights away. That's ABSURD! Not to mention a very scary position to take.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Yes Yes Yes... Pass this everywhere!! The legislators should not worry about being politically correct and get this done already! And how in the world is this an invasion of 'privacy?' When you apply for PUBLIC assistance which includes PUBLIC housing, PUBLIC transportation, PUBLIC childcare, and PUBLIC benefits, you gave up your 'rights' to privacy....

Just because One has fallen on hard times does NOT strip Hume of Humanity - privacy is a RIGHT. We paid Our taxes, many of Us, and when the ship We were sailing on sank, this does NOT mean We are now not Humans.

Employers screen employees all the time...no one states that this is unconstitutional....if welfare recipients get 'offended' by mandatory drug testing, then they are not ready to gain employment anyway....are they going to tell the potential employer at an interview that their privacy has been violated?

I am offended by forcing People to be drug tested at the profit of friends and family of the politicians who are making these rules. (And You know that is what happened in Florida, right?) I refuse to be drug tested. It's a matter of principle. Unless a danger to others is suspected, there is no call for intruding on MY body.

If an employer must drug test even those who are not a safety concern (bus drivers, pilots, etc. might have a case for testing), I don't want to work for them.

And many will ask, "What do we do about the children?"

Award the State custody. Point Blank. If you cannot financially support your children and then cannot or will not pass mandatory screening to receive assistance, then why do you have custody of the children in the first place? This, after all should be a wake up call to those abusing the system. Its not the taxpayers who are punishing the children of these cases, its the PARENTS.

Oh, geez. I am not willing to have My privacy invaded, so that makes Me incapable of parenting? Man, if THAT isn't askew as a perspective, I don't know what is!

Not only should drug testing of welfare recipients be mandatory, but temporary sterilization (while receiving assistance) should be also.

And... Who will pay for these tests? Who will pay for this sterilization? Do You really believe, in this day and age when many, many cannot find work, have lost Their house and everything, and are struggling desperately, that the solution is to spend billions (to the profit of friends and family), strip children away - not because the parents are not loving and good parents but because They might have principles based on the Constitution, and "temporarily" sterilize People.

While You're at it, why not just kill everyOne needing help? If We cannot offer dignity to even Our poor, what stops Us from seeing them as animals We can kill?

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

I get what you're saying, but that doesn't excuse people from breeding recklessly knowing their financial circumstances are less than stable. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
If we are to confront the corruption in our nation we must be able to strengthen ourselves as much as possible. We cannot have too many attachments in these times. If they cannot afford their own children what makes you think anyone else can?
Pragmatism must be implemented by the people if they truly intend to counter-act the destructive forces that are running this and many nations into the ground.

Does being poor strip Us of Our Human dignity and rights? That We should be punished by the state for being poor? It's NOT the people on Welfare and other assistance. It's the MILITARY spending that is killing Us. If We took the budget of the military and spent it here at home, We could feed, clothe and house EVERYONE richly and money left over.

Rather than look at Our poor as if They are no longer Human (and therefore do not deserve the rights of those who are not), Let's get rid of the military spending. We could balance the budget post-haste if We did that.

reply to post by ButterCookie


I find it awful that parents on welfare would use the money to buy drugs. Here in the UK there is an 'underclass' as I call them who unlike the good underpaid working class people who share the same residential areas are content with being on jobseekers allowence (about $40) a week and get their rent paid for them. Most unemployed people here genuinely want to work, but this group who I call the 'underclass' are content with being on the dole and on £40 a week for the rest of their lives. Before I got my flat closer to my uni I stayed at a ymca hostel and the council paid the rent for the unemployed and unhoused and Iwas living amoungst them. The guy next door had a kid who visited him every now and then but he spent all day watching tv and playing very loud awful dance music.

Anyway this waster when he got his dole money would drink cheap cider in his room with his girlfriend who was in the same situation as him for as many days as possible till his money run out, he smoked weed as well frequently. I couldnt believe that the government were basically paying him to get drunk and high, while next door I had to put up with the constant drunken noise and loud music while trying to study or sleep after work because despite being a student I had to work to pay my rent unlike him.

I found out that he had been there (as many of them had been) for 16 months! Thats insane! The days I had of I noticed he never left his room apart for breakfast and dinner that the government paid for him with his rent. He never once appeared to go out looking for work. I had been in the area literally one day and got a job in the pub next door despite having no experience, after that it took me just 3 days to get my next job in a shop again I had no experience in retail. there were plenty of easy jobs like this around but that would interfear with his drink and weed shedule however I suppose!

Its crazy that people who are aparenrtly in the worst financial state and who have kids to support can affors to buy drugs. I feel for the children who are stuck with these mongs. They will suffer and go without the most simple thingsbecause of their parents selfishness. Parents should be told if you dont get clean by 'X' date you will have your children taken away. I have great sympathy for drug addicts having had friends who have had bad drug problems, but when you have kids everything changes. They MUST be made to get clean or loose their kids, that is not something childdren should experience ever let alone for the time that the parent will have to get clean. They should be tested very frequently, every week at least to make sure they arnt chipping right after the test so that it wont show up on the next one if its say 2 weeks away.

When at the job centre they are asked 'why dont you apply for mcdonalds, they're hiring' these cretins say 'eeer I dont wana work doing that its embaressing, I wana do plastering or something good that pays well'. Well Im sorry but if you dont have qualifications or money to go on a course then you must be MADE to work for mcdonalds or whatever. If they are getting unemployment benefit yet refuse work that is easy, has good benefits (working for a large company) and offers them a chance to make more money for their children then severe action must be taken. Not caring for your children should be a crime imo. If you refuse work and are content to sit on your backside on the dole while your kids go without the simplest of comforts then you should be either forced to work or punished for child neglect.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Whatever....I'm not responsible for anyone being poor or for anyone else's kids. It's not my fault that the poor continue to recklessly breed despite that they do not have the financial security to back it up. Until I stop being responsible for their mistakes...I want them tested and sterilized. If they are on welfare and they fail the test or have children outside their means, they should be fined, jailed and have their children taken away.
Their children could later serve in our armed forces and prove to be more beneficial than their parents.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
In response to the members against sterilization/ population control:

Are you in support of people that clearly cannot take care of themselves and their children to continue to bring new children into the world that they can' take care of??

No. But I don't think it is MY place to tell Them what to do with Their body. If pregnancy and birth happen, We will deal with it.

After all, that's what applying for Public Assistance/ Welfare/ Food Stamps indicates in itself.

No. It means the present system is set up to ensure most People are living in poverty. It means the system failed those of Us who NEVER believed there was the slimmest chance of going homeless, of being unable to get a job, and now We are down and out. Does that slip into the chasm of military spending to the exclusion of all else signify to You that We are no longer Human and therefore have no rights?

Why PURPOSELY be a burden on the State and tax payers?

By demanding tests that are at best extremely poor for determining whether someOne used drugs? By sterilizing everyone (males, too, I presume? Damn well better be both or that is sex discrimination)?

Listen, I am a black single mother of 3 and have been on welfare myself in the past. I hated my situation and did things like productive job hunting and went back to school to finish my 4 degree. I did those things so that stop being a burden to tax payers. I understand it sounds harsh, but eventually people gotta become responsible.

Really, You are still living the myth that all it takes is hard work and One will succeed. It IS a myth, because it turns out that success is FAR more directed by luck and not effort. Read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers to get a grasp on just how important luck is - for example, Bill Gates: the book brings up three crucial factors that led Him to succeed. One was the fact that, back in the day when computers were still quite new, Bill's mother worked at a place where She could allow Him to access the computer lab (VERY lucky, He!). Without that, Bill would be just another schmuck.

If You pulled ahead, You were lucky.

My avatar you question?

I chose that way back when I first became aware of Orwell and the NWO that we are headed to, and now that I actually SUPPORT a NWO, I saw no reason to change it.

Ahhhh. So You DO think poor Humans have no rights, and are therefore animals We can invade against Their will - or watch starve to death if They refuse for whatever reason.

How about a Better World Order? One in which there is no poverty? No war? No need for money, even? How? I think I have offered You these links, but for any here who haven't read, please visit a couple of threads here on ATS I posted:

The End of Entropy - the foundation - read first

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform - the structure

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Here's a simple schematic for drawing on the plenum ("dark"/Zero Point/Radiant/Orgone/...) energy:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



The Abundance Paradigm:

media.abovetopsecret.com...

Face it, some people are not able (even if temporarily) to think responsibly for themselves.

Sorry, don't buy that. I cannot use "some people" as an excuse to probe another's bodily fluids and hair against Their will, and especially not forcing surgery or pharmaceutical hell on a Human because They find that They need help. What kind of [snip] would I be to "help" Them by forcing Them?

We see this when a single mother continues to have child after child, with no stable father(s), and applying for life long assistance....

You do know that this is NOT what most People do, right? Because what, maybe 5%? will do that, You would deny that They are Human and have rights?

when women continue to chose irresponsible men (and vice versa) to produce children with

Shall We police relationships? Arrange marriages? Some women may do this, but by and large, most are NOT like this.

when welfare recipients chose spend benefits on going to the club or getting high

1. As has been pointed out, drug use does NOT mean the user paid anything.
2. Oh, are We going to police where They GO? (Hmmm... How much money will THAT "save" Us...?)
3. It is not Ours to tell anyOne what They must spend Their money on. If We determined We will give Them a certain amount, that is THEIR's to spend. (Worrying about what They do with the money will cost FAR more than just leaving Them to Their own free choices (as all Humans SHOULD be).

Sometimes, order is needed.

You mean fascist micromanaging?

Originally posted by clintdelicious
I couldnt believe that the government were basically paying him to get drunk and high, while next door I had to put up with the constant drunken noise and loud music while trying to study or sleep after work because despite being a student I had to work to pay my rent unlike him.

That jealous envy is a bitch, isn't it?

So the solution is to empower the government to search our bodily fluids and spend taxpayer money doing it?

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Bachrk
I think its fine if a family needs a little help via welfare BUT they should be drug tested. If they're clean no problem.

Sure. And the police should have the right to search your home at any time because you too might be using drugs. If you're clean, no problem.

It's amazing how few of you are capable of seeing beyond your envy-based moral crusade.

The poster is not being envious ( where do you even see that?).

They have simply stated the obvious....Again, as a former welfare recipient myself, I am able to look at the bigger picture, not just my personal situation. I admit that long-term welfare WILL make a person lazy. That's is just fact. I am not talking about disabled people. I am talking about the

"I can't find a job", yet they have no skills or education and not trying to gain any
"Who will watch my children" that they irresponsibly keep having
"I don't want to be drug-tested" because they currently use and buy drugs with tax dollars.

What is the deal with this country consistently supporting unproductivness?

I remember, after serving 8 faithful years of active duty service in the United States Marine Corps, coming home and hanging out with my former peers.

Most had 3 or more children back then, out of wedlock.

No one had jobs, yet they all had hair extensions, manicures, pedicures, cars, and their kids were wearing the latest Michael Jordan's and Nike gear.

One invited me over to hang out, so I went. I drove up to a large beautiful home, nicely furnished, spacious and separate bedrooms for each child.

'Wow", I thought. 'Girl, what kind of job do you have? I need to apply!!!"

She stated, "Job??? Girl, I don't work."

"Oh," I thought. 'Well.......how is it that you are living like this?"

"I get free food, free daycare, free gas vouchers, free utilities, and free rent."

"Free rent?? WTH"

"Yeah, its called 'Section 8'."

" What did you have to do to get ALL that?"

"Nothing. Apply."

" Damn...wonder if' I'd be eligible. After all, I just served 8 faithful productive years defending this country."

"Naw girl...you gotta have so many kids, no college, no job, and no husband."

"WTH!!!!!!!!!!! Is THAT what the Gov't rewards??"

Seriously, that's how the conversation went. So you MUST understand the hipocrisy there.....

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ButterCookie
instead, tell me why you defend welfare recipients doing drugs on taxpayers' dimes and why you also support welfare recipients to continue populate, clearly displaying that can't take care of the ones they already have.

Just because someone disagrees with government intervention into private lives does NOT mean they support welfare recipients doing drugs. That's another assumption made by your position. Welfare needs reform. The rules need to change to make it MUCH harder to cheat the system. But removing citizens' rights to privacy and to reproduction for ANY reason is not the answer.

The most sensible solution is NOT to spend MORE money to violate the privacy of our citizens. They still maintain human rights, even though they aren't making money right now.

There is a dangerous attitude blowing through ATS lately that if other people are doing something "wrong", they give up their rights and don't deserve their rights and the government should just be able to come in and take their rights away. That's ABSURD! Not to mention a very scary position to take.

Violate, you say?

Do you not see a violation if a welfare recipient who has applied to receive benefits (you work, not them) and then have the NERVE to be getting high???

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

I get what you're saying, but that doesn't excuse people from breeding recklessly knowing their financial circumstances are less than stable. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
If we are to confront the corruption in our nation we must be able to strengthen ourselves as much as possible. We cannot have too many attachments in these times. If they cannot afford their own children what makes you think anyone else can?
Pragmatism must be implemented by the people if they truly intend to counter-act the destructive forces that are running this and many nations into the ground.

Does being poor strip Us of Our Human dignity and rights? That We should be punished by the state for being poor? It's NOT the people on Welfare and other assistance. It's the MILITARY spending that is killing Us. If We took the budget of the military and spent it here at home, We could feed, clothe and house EVERYONE richly and money left over.

Rather than look at Our poor as if They are no longer Human (and therefore do not deserve the rights of those who are not), Let's get rid of the military spending. We could balance the budget post-haste if We did that.

Please understand this:

The Legislation is NOT punishing you for being poor. It punished those caught being on drugs while pretending to be poor. What are you not getting about this?

Did you feel that you were being punished when your job drug-tested you?

Originally posted by ButterCookie
They have simply stated the obvious....Again, as a former welfare recipient myself, I am able to look at the bigger picture, not just my personal situation. I admit that long-term welfare WILL make a person lazy. That's is just fact.

Of course, because everyone is just like you.

What is the deal with this country consistently supporting unproductivness?

I consistently support individual rights. It's a shame you don't, and that you fail to see that supporting individual rights is NOT the same as supporting unproductive behavior.

"I get free food, free daycare, free gas vouchers, free utilities, and free rent."

"Free rent?? WTH"

"Yeah, its called 'Section 8'."

" What did you have to do to get ALL that?"

"Nothing. Apply."

That jealous envy is a bitch, isn't it? I know.... let's send the cops down there to collect their urine because maybe they're doing something I don't like and therefore we can finally screw them.

Originally posted by laiguana
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Whatever....I'm not responsible for anyone being poor or for anyone else's kids. It's not my fault that the poor continue to recklessly breed despite that they do not have the financial security to back it up. Until I stop being responsible for their mistakes...I want them tested and sterilized. If they are on welfare and they fail the test or have children outside their means, they should be fined, jailed and have their children taken away.
Their children could later serve in our armed forces and prove to be more beneficial than their parents.

Hmmm. Fined. LOL! From what money? Oh, let "em starve!

As I said, though, to another, maybe 5% are having many children. Most seeking help are NOT having kids willy-nilly. That is emotional propaganda to turn thought away from where Our spending REALLY is - guns and tanks and all the rest We buy from the war suppliers (who provoke Us into war with false flags and propaganda so They can make money).

So the other 95%ish should have Their rights stripped away, should be treated as animals, should be punished for their poverty because You are all riled up about a few of Them?

How unAmerican. Heh. How unEthical. The poor are Human Beings whose luck was not as good as the few who are on top. Like I said, Let's just kill anyOne who asks for help. Problem solved, right?

reply to post by ButterCookie

The Legislation is NOT punishing you for being poor. It punished those caught being on drugs while pretending to be poor. What are you not getting about this?

Are we allowed to include cigarettes on that list of drugs to be tested for??? If not, then it's pretty hypocritical, don't you think???

Drug testing welfare recipients does NOT confirm that welfare money was spent on drugs.

Also, such legislation doesn't address those who may spend their welfare money on alcohol. This should be more widespread a problem since it's legal and considerably cheaper than any illegal drug.

This bill does nothing but waste even more taxpayer money and appeal to jealous and envious rubes.

reply to post by shushu


And what if they're spending their money on potato chips and other junk "food"?

[sarcasm]
Come to think of it, don'cha think we need to pay for someone to go in their house and search it every week to make sure they're not doing anything we disapprove of? Like having too much sex or drinking soda pop or maybe even beer??? Hey, if they're living off the state, they don't deserve human rights to choose what they consume, so let's just take those pesky rights all away from them, shall we? I mean, we have the power to do that, right? With the government's help? Yes, lets FORCE the government to intrude on the privacy of poor people (after all they aren't contributing to society, anyway, right? Just leaching off of it) and let's make sure they behave the way WE think they should. After all, WE are the ones with money. WE are the ones making money, so WE should be making decisions about their lives, right? That's what separates good people from bad people, don't you know? The ones who make money are GOOD and the ones who are poor are BAD... [/sarcasm]

Oh, Lord! It's a sad state of affairs when even ATS members have this mindset. :shk:

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
Drug testing welfare recipients does NOT confirm that welfare money was spent on drugs.

Also, such legislation doesn't address those who may spend their welfare money on alcohol. This should be more widespread a problem since it's legal and considerably cheaper than any illegal drug.

This bill does nothing but waste even more taxpayer money and appeal to jealous and envious rubes.

I beg to differ with you. Drug testing... when court ordered... will alway include drugs AND alcohol screening. I can assure you that if it comes to testing for drugs before receiving welfare... it will also include alcohol testing. That's why I mentioned cigarettes. There's just as much welfare money being spent by welfare recipients on cigarettes as there is on drugs/alcohol... if not more.