The United States was not founded in Christianity? I beg to differ.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
[mo

Chrsitans are so desperate nowadays as they see the world coming around to the ignorance of their beliefs and mythology.

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by TheOrangeBrood
reply to post by projectvxn

 

You haven't posted a single peer-reviewed source; just paraphrasing from church-affiliated sites to support an obvious agenda.

None of these sites were even constructed by professional web designers.

Bunch of non-reputable bunk, as far as I am concerned...

...And I'll ask it again...

...Where is this even going? Anywhere?

....You think churches should dictate federal legislation?

I don't understand.

Original quotations are bunk now?

When they are phrased out of context along with a slew of like quotations whilst leaving out all of the other quotations of the more iconic "founders", and followed up by Bible quotes.. Yes; non-reputable, biased bunk. Sorry.

And when did I advocate the church dictating Federal law? Have i made any allusions to that?

Sorry, I just thought I'd make up a point for you, since you don't have one.

The US was founded in freemasonry. You really cannot dispute that.

Research it and all will become clear.

Originally posted by Scytherius
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
[mo

Chrsitans are so desperate nowadays as they see the world coming around to the ignorance of their beliefs and mythology.

Yes, I have to agree here, Scytherius. I live within the Bible Belt, and the town I live in is quite cultish with it's more churches than houses in some towns, and when you meet someone, the first question is, "what church do you attend?" Lately, it is the Mormons and JWs who have been going door to door, attempting to "save everyone." Question them on their faith, and they get mad, ask too many questions, they start praising Jesus and asking him to cast these devils out. Believe me, this has happened. Maybe I am a little mean, I could just tell them to go away, but I love this stuff. Not a one of them has ever read their Bible, no, they cherry pick verses out to fit what they are saying. There is a local town forum here that is filled with Bible quotes. Tell them something like, Nibiru is incoming, or aliens are visiting, and you should hear them. They are so obsessed with Demons and Satans it is a wonder to me they even come out of their houses.

I think the good Christians are attempting to save face in the face of having their Bible and their faith torn asunder by intelligent people researching and learning the truth about the religion, and the book it is based on. I often wonder what they are going to do when the Event comes, and they are all suddenly in spirit form, and all of their dead relatives are saying hello, and no one comes to save them, and throw all of us in their lake of fire.

North America was settled by British colonists circa 1632. All of them, one of my fore fathers includes (who arrived in 1632 and became the first mayor of Ipswitch MA) were Christians organized and sent over as organized representatives of the British crown, mostly around 1632 in the Winthrop fleet.

This initial settling which was obviously a Christian endeavor should not be confused with what happened in the 1760s through 1770s over a hundred years later. The founding of the US was certainly a Masonic endeavor and much of the founding documents were based on writings from French authors as well as an understanding of Masonic ideas and codes.

The idea that US was founded on Christian principles in the 1770s time period is false. The founders did not have any disagreement with Christianity or any other religion per se, but the country was not founded as a theocracy by any stretch of the imagination. Likewise, the free expression of religion in both public and private was held as a safeguarded principle.

Christianity is based on the principle of Monarchy. God is a King and the rule of law is based on "natural law" or the laws of God. The US was founded based on Republican Democracy and the rule of conventional law. Instead of the 10 commandments as dictated by God, the rule of law was based on convention or agreement of the compact holders (the citizenry). Of course, Judeo Christian beliefs have always made their way into laws of convention (which makes sense if the convention goers mostly hold that world view anyway) but that does not mean Judeo Christian beliefs are intrinsic to the Republican Democracy.

For this reason, natural law and convention will always be at odds with each other. Of course we know what natural law is because a king explains this to us (supposedly) but the political kings of the world are completely corrupt and the Lord of Kings himself is absent, mostly talking to prophets who hold no secular authority but rather some authority over their congregations.

So the breakdown between natural law of monarch and conventional law has been in the works for some time. Now we are seeing that conventional law has its limitations (and therefore a Christian revival toward natural law). The limitations being the corruption of democracy. I.E. we all vote ourselves access to the treasury and bankrupt the nation.

Of course, the communists and NAZIs would like to have their say in the matter as well, but that is a subject for another day, because up until Obama, communists and socialists have not been mainstream in America like they have been in Europe over the last century completely wrecking that continent of any fiscal logic.

The Masons on the other hand, prefer to manipulate all the groups toward a new world order based on their own misguided codes.

Originally posted by autowrench
Lately, it is the Mormons and JWs who have been going door to door, attempting to "save everyone." Question them on their faith, and they get mad, ask too many questions, they start praising Jesus and asking him to cast these devils out. Believe me, this has happened.

Oh Wow! Yeah! I'm telling ya - if the Mormon's and the Zeitgeist could get together (minus the god part) sign me up.

I was Mormon for 5 years (they are Christians no matter what anyone else thinks). One of the best experiences of my life.

So many do not understand - - Atheists are so because of their search for real truth. Their search for finding God.

Originally posted by Annee

Patrick Henry
Samuel Adams
John Jay
Martha Washington
Charles Carrol
Elias Boudinot
John Q. Adams
George Washington
Abigail Adams
Alexander Hamilton
John Hancock

So . . .none of those were considered predominant founding fathers?

Martha Washington???

edit on 21-6-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Contrary to popular belief, the women of the revolution were numerous and indispensable. Martha Washington did much more than just sew stars onto a flag.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

The problem is that I am not saying that the United States was founded as a Christian nation

Are you serious?! First you say you beg to differ that our country was not found on christianity, and then you say this?! If you are going to post a thread at least stick to your guns, or just admit you were wrong, or simply think before you title your thread. In my eyes everything you say is now is poop. Just poop in scooper.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Contrary to popular belief, the women of the revolution were numerous and indispensable. Martha Washington did much more than just sew stars onto a flag.

Please explain.

I'm not just another kid - - I am 65 years old. I really want to know what you have to say about Martha Washington's contribution. What about Mary Todd Lincoln's contribution? Or Abigail Adams.

Since I experienced first hand that women were still treated as second class citizens in the 1950s - - - please explain to me how Martha Washington fits into Founding Fathers in the era of 1789.

The image below sums up my thoughts on the OPs arguments.

You argue that America was founded in Christianity, however, the only thing that you show is that it was founded with the concept of God.

You are forgetting the fact that many of the most prominent founding fathers were masons, who have a quite different and more encompassing concept of God than Christianity.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


NO, America was based on freedom and the right to be who you want and what you believe in!

reply to post by Annee


Start here and work your way out. There's a lot of knowledge on the women of the Revolution.

score.rims.k12.ca.us...

Also look up "The Sentiments of an American Woman" from 1780. No one knows exactly, but there is much conjecture that these words were actually penned by Martha Washington.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh




OK let's not confuse the acknowledgment of God with an endorsement of Christianity. God is real enough but we may refer to Him in various ways such as "God Bless America" or "In God we Trust" without being members of any religion. I said "religion" not "denomination". Religions are what divides us not God. Another example would be that we may pray as a group to God while staying clear of references to religion but as soon as we refer to God as "Lord" we immediately bring Christianity into focus. Can we be a Godly nation without promoting religion? Yes we can. The average minister will have lots of trouble with this however. I say "their trouble is their concern".

Make a block diagram which has a block for each religion and name them all. Place them all equally on a line. Above and in the center place another block and call this one God. When we invoke God as a nation this is where we should be speaking from. Stay in the God block and do not go to one of the religion blocks. If we can do this we'll be OK.

I suppose that most people cannot understand this because they are so conditioned to thinking that their particular religion is the only one that really does represent God. They are wrong headed in this.

reply to post by TheOrangeBrood




It is my opinion based upon experience that when the Christians begin this kind of talk about our country being "based" on Christian principles (a nice way of say we're supposed to be Christians) what they really are pining for is the return of reading the Bible in public schools. Now that it doesn't happen anymore they are, through political efforts, trying to abolish public schools under the guise of "the evils of big government". What they cannot win through legislation they now attempt to win by reducing the legislatures to mootness then they can rule the schools locally and, presto, the Bible is back in class.

My problem with these folks is they never tell the truth. They always try to bull# everyone.

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
Reply to post by Annee

 

I have given you proof. You call me a liar. So where is your evidence that I am lying?

I can go to a website full of quotes to defend my position as well.

www.faithofourfathers.net...

The problem is that I am not saying that the United States was founded as a Christian nation, or even that the founding fathers were above reproach. I am saying that it was founded on Biblical prreproach, as I have shown.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Treaty of Tripoli by John Adams, one of the founding fathers.

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
But I wish to show you the TRUTH, that is if you can deny ignorance.

It is a common thought now-a-days that the United States was not founded in Christianity. I do not know when this idea became mainstream, but it is absolutely false. I will show you why.

I'm sorry to say, but what was posted wasn't truth. It was a personal interpretation of the Bible, and a very lengthy one at that which had nothing to do with the Founding Forefathers.

If you want to make claims about the Forefathers religious intentions for the country they were creating, then you have to know, study and understand the differences in each forefathers religious beliefs. That cannot be found in the Bible, but only through historical research. You have to google the lives of each forefather, finding out what each Christian denomination they were raised and how they were different or the same in their beliefs as adults. Then and only then--after the proper historical research on founding forefathers and their appropriate religious beliefs, can you answer what their religious intentions were for the country. Picking up your own Bible and delivering a personal sermon doesn't say anything about the Forefathers' religious beliefs and religious intentions. Your interpretation of the Bible is not "their" interpretation of the Bible. And it was the forefathers that wrote the Constitution, not you.

With that said, not all of the Founding Forefathers were Christian, many were Deists and deism isn't Christianity. Thomas Jefferson who is a major drafter of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution was a heavy deist. He didn't believe in the Bible, even if he believed in a Creator. Jefferson differed in the following premises with the Bible (to which he authored his own Bible).
1. Jefferson did not believe in the Bible's creation story, so in the Jeffersonian Bible, he edited it out.
2. Jefferson did not believe in the Noah's Ark story.
3. Jefferson did not believe in the Resurrection of Jesus. In fact, in the Jeffersonian Bible, he edited it out. Jefferson believed that Jesus was a good teacher, but didn't believe in the mystical resurrection.


And just with those 3 major premises, many would not consider Jefferson Christian at all. And when Jefferson is quote about making a statement about Jesus, bear in mind, he didn't believe in the Resurrection.

Therefore, Jefferson and other Deists who disagreed with the Bible, its Creation Story or various other stories of mysticism---when drafting the Constitution they were out to protect themselves and any other American who disagreed with the Bible. That includes protecting the rights of any American who didn't believe in the Resurrection of Jesus--just as Jefferson (drafter of the Constitution) didn't believe in the Resurrection.

So it wasn't just about "Freedom" of different Christian Denominations. It was also about the "Freedom" of disagreeing with the Bible, its Creation story, its Resurrection story-- or any other story in the Bible that an American might feel as if it were a tall-tale, exaggerated or scientifically impossible.

That is indeed the intent of some of the Deist Founding Forefathers who were drafting the Constitution.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


I love the post. Great job presenting with verses. More people need to hear this. Very great job!

reply to post by Scytherius


Desperate? When someone has faith and understanding in God, they have nothing but patience and peace.

Revelation 21:4 "He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

And with that, I have no worries. Because in the end, everything will turn out just fine. While others are filled with anxiety, conspiracies, fear, gossiping about end times and what is going on.( As you can see with most posts on this site) People of faith have no reason to worry. Kind of reassuring.

I believe everyone has the right to choose what they believe in, that is what this country was built on, (US) But please don’t tear down or insult someone else’s belief system just because you don’t see eye to eye with it.

Envy is ignorance. ~Ralph Waldo Emerson