The third Intifada- What went wrong?

I think the basic, most objective question that needs to be asked is- Why was this different than the other Intifadas?

Obviously it would be hard to measure the events preceding and following the 2011 Nakba day in terms of success or failure, but simply in terms of response- Why haven't the people of Palestine risen up in this politically critical time, both for them, and the entire region?

Was this a genuine call to arms, inspired by the struggles of neighboring peoples for independence, or a new age "Facebook-y" marketing trick?

Can this truly be called an Intifada, and if so, what has it achieved?

Is this in any way telling of the situation in the West Bank and Gaza?

With respect,
Eliad.

I think, as I've said many times before, today's conflict is not the same conflict of the second Intifada, neither it is that of the first.
Now a days, more than ever, Palestine is both losing the legitimacy, and the willingness to use force as a means of gaining political power and influence.
I think Palestine does not need these kinds of semi violent publicity stunts, as it gains much more support when it acts in a non violent manner, than it does otherwise.
As for the Israeli reaction-
Gaza- 2 dead, 95 injured. (The IDF claims in only fired at the legs of protesters, and only the ones who approached the fence).
Syria- 4 dead, dozens (?) injured. (A single IDF patrol opened fire only when it was nearly overwhelmed by hundreds of protesters who have managed to cross over the border).
Lebanon- 11 dead, 100 injured. (The IDF claims the Lebanese army, positioned on the fence line, had also fired at the protesters)
Sadly people have died in these incidents, but it doesn't seem like Israel is acting like the blood thirsty, trigger happy tyrant everyone was expecting it to be.
For comparison- Trying to fend off the protests in front of the Israeli embassy the Egyptian army (yes, the one no longer controlled by Mubarak) wounded 350 protesters using live fire and tear gas. At least two of the wounded were shot in the head and chest.

I think the basic reason this failed is that there is a huge gap between how the pro Palestinian media portrays the suffering of the Palestinians and the reality of the situation.

To say that the Palestinians aren't suffering would be completely inaccurate and untrue, but they are no longer the downtrodden, beat up, occupied people they were 10 years ago, largely because of the decrease in violence.

With each day their nation is growing, with each day they come closer to establishing their borders, and all most of them want to do, at this point, is just live their lives uninterrupted, same as the Israelis, same as anyone.

More military action, more attacks, more fighting, and more violence not only lengthens this conflict, but also add to the suffering of both peoples, and I think the Palestinians have begun to realize that.

Plus, the more you have, the more you've got to lose, and I believe the Palestinians are finally getting a chance to build something, why would they want to ruin it?

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by Eliad


I think you are correct, but you'll have inside and outside agitators, trying to keep the waters muddy.

The mufti of Lebanon, Sheikh Mohammed Rashid Qabbani, was quoted this week as saying that Palestinians are no longer welcome in his country.

The King of Jordan is on record saying much the same. Egypt will open the borders on their side to let them return, but turn them away at gunpoint when they try to get into Egypt.

I think that the two sides will eventually come to a agreement, but not in our lifetime and after many deaths.

With the vote for statehood for Palestine about to occur in the fall before the UN they are waiting to see what the result of that is. If it goes through like everyone is expecting it to there will be no need for an intifada.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


And if it doesn't?

Do you really think there'd be a fourth Intifada?

Anything I read about Palestine disgusts/depresses me.

For the only reason that I live in a world which drops rosy buzzwords such as "freedom" and "peace".... but ignores the fact that there is a concentration-camp state living under the boots of israel.

reply to post by Eliad

With each day their nation is growing, with each day they come closer to establishing their borders,

How can Palestine be growing while Israel continues with more new settlements.

First, the situation of the palestinian people are always under stated... the msm does not report the full extent/magnitude of their misery.

Second, the violence perpetrated upon the israelis by Palestinians acting out over THEIR land being taken over is also exaggerated... to make it look like they are the aggressors and not the israelies.

and third, the israelis are always made to look like the victims living in fear of "terror" attacks, while Palestinians are, in reality, the ones living in fear of Israeli attacks.

Hypothetically if there were israelis living in the same conditions as the palestinians elsewhere, we would keep hearing stories of a second "holocaust" in the making.... over and over and over again.
(Thank goodness we don't have such a situation.)

But yet, the Palestine situation will always be swept under the carpet. However... celebrity gossip, sports news and reports on new gadgets/websites/lifestyle will make the news.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

And if it doesn't?

Do you really think there'd be a fourth Intifada?

The third was called off pending what occurs with the UN vote. When the vote is approved there will be no reason to pick up the third.

reply to post by Eliad


Well if Israel supported a Palestine state it would show they want peace..

What's the chances of that ??

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Eliad

 

With each day their nation is growing, with each day they come closer to establishing their borders,

How can Palestine be growing while Israel continues with more new settlements.

When the UN vote goes through and they are finally admitted into The UN means that the UN may consider putting it's boots on the ground to guarantee peace.

Expect by early 2013 the Palestinian Parlement to be seated and the first official act of the new Parliment will officially and formally declare it's Independance and by 2014/15 timeframe that they will start to develop infrastructure in regards to creation of schools (elementary, middle school, high school, colleges), hospitals (doctors offices, medial clinics, medical research and development), fire departments, police departments and the creation and formation of Palestinian industry (manufacturing (there is some talk now over the creation of the first ever Palestinian car company by 2020-25), farming, creation of theatres, markets, clothing shops, electronic stores, dry cleaners, laundromats, civil services, eco and enviornmentally friendly technology, car repair/sales facilities) as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt have already committed support and aide for them to make this happen. At least 80% of Palestinians are already on board with this plan and have already plegged to make it happen. Quite a few US and EU based retail giants have been looking at Palestine for quite a few years now for expansion there. Walmart/Asada, Target, Sears, Tesco, Google, T Mobile, Amazon, eBay are amongst a few of the names that are looking at expanding there with shortly thereafter expect Palestinian enterainment to go global.

The Palestine of 10 years from now will look nothing like the Palestine of yesteryear.

reply to post by Eliad


It hasn't even begun yet.

Wait for the vote in September on admitting Palestine to the UN and how it will change nothing for the people on the ground in Palestine. Then you will see the real Intifada. I suspect it will be a mix of mainly civil disobedience, some rocket attacks and a tide of international fury that Israel/U.S.A. may not be able to stem...

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


It is comments and sentiments like this is why they feel like they have no hope. Let's be positive please?

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


What are you on about? What is there to be positive about?

Expect by early 2013 the Palestinian Parlement to be seated and the first official act of the new Parliment will officially and formally declare it's Independance and by 2014/15 timeframe that they will start to develop infrastructure in regards to creation of schools (elementary, middle school, high school, colleges), hospitals (doctors offices, medial clinics, medical research and development), fire departments, police departments and the creation and formation of Palestinian industry (manufacturing (there is some talk now over the creation of the first ever Palestinian car company by 2020-25), farming, creation of theatres, markets, clothing shops, electronic stores, dry cleaners, laundromats, civil services, eco and enviornmentally friendly technology, car repair/sales facilities) as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Iran, Egypt have already committed support and aide for them to make this happen.

What exactly are you basing the above on?

The peace process is dead, the Palestinians continue to have no real state or economy, either in the West Bank or Gaza, Israel continues to garner enemies through its continuing exploitation of the Palestinians.

Violence begets violence.

The Israeli establishment policies and actions, since before Israel was even created, toward the Palestinians have been violent in the extreme every single day.

There will be no real Palestinina state, in control of its borderd & airspace, an economy worth talking about, not at risk from potential enemies, until it is forced upon Israel by the International community, do you see that happening in the next 10 years?

Positive indeed....

reply to post by Peruvianmonk


The fact that these people for like ever have lived under martial law poverty and that is the reason why they turn towards terrorism, because there is nothing else available to them.

Their future is about to get a helluva lot brighter and does not care if you nor I don't like it, this is the way forward.

The Peace process as well as the Oslo Accord is far from dead. Within 3 years time there will be no more Israeli settlements in Palestine.

The top like 15 terrorist groups have already agreed and are ready to put pen to paper that if we keep up our end of this deal that they will lay down arms and work towards peace. The repetitive cycle of violence and global Islamic Extremeitism is coming to a close.

Expect also by 2014 the first sections of the Isreali Wall and prison fence will begin to come down. The UN currently has 192 member nations and at least 130 or so are expected to approve statehood. At least 100 nations have already plegged economic aide to the tune of $3 - $5 Trillion over the next 10 years to assist this.

Israel has already been told to not dare interfere with this.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Palestininan attacks on Israeli military targets or settlements are not terrorisim.

You truly think that ANY Israeli administration would forceibly remove 500,000 settlers from the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

I wish your prediciton to come true, (although it clearly won't).

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Peruvianmonk

 

It is comments and sentiments like this is why they feel like they have no hope. Let's be positive please?

How bout... Let's keep it realistic and not be surprised in any event. And.... allow people to express their opinion as they see it. Otherwise its a very boring sanitized forum designed for people with their head in the sand or are talking out of their butts and could do with a reality check.
I like reading all entries here from the realists to the idealists and its important that, what each person has to say is honoured in your idealistic way rather than their post suiting your idealism.

reply to post by LexiconV


Thank you Lexicon.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by Peruvianmonk

 

Israel has already been told to not dare interfere with this.

edit on 22-6-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Realistically, there's the problem in a nut shell.... since when does Israel ever do what they are told considering they have a discriminating elitists attitude, with a superiority complex towards every other race of people. Their view, expectations and treatment of the Palestinian people is just as atrocious as the history of the Jews in the 2nd world war.

Who ever told the 'one god nomads' they were chosen by god (let me get this right... usually people chose their own god unless corralled into it through family tradition and culture), and have property rights that extend back in time when the sands of the deserts were once rocks needs a Dr Who Tardis, so they can come visit the mess they've created throughout the ages.

Idealistically... If only writing Comic books were all the rage back then... we could determine an Israeli by watching them run around with their undies on the outside of their pants and the Palestinians would be the ones engaged in comic laughter. What a wonderful world....