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What are our "Human Rights"?

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posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by amaster
 


Food is the first and foremost human right. The shame of our culture is that we must slave at jobs to pay for food.

We DESERVE free food. It is the only way to equalize the tragic effects of capitalism (and communism for that matter since ALL leaders, since the dawn of civilization, have withheld food for work).

By making us work for food, we have turned our own hunger into a debt that must be repaid by the sweat of our brows. Millions across the globe go hungry, not for lack of food, theres plenty of food, but because they lack fancy, green pieces of paper with which to buy food.

Food and water are too important to leave to the economy. We must separate food from the economy in order to have any sense of justice in this world.

How would you do that? If you have a 'right' to food does that mean you can go to the fields and harvest it yourself? Are you also going to plant? If not who will do that?
My problem with all these 'rights' is that they tend to depend on the work of others, if I plant a field and harvest with more than enough for my own needs I am pleased to feed others, but by choice I don't want someone telling me I must put work into feeding others - I would rather go dancing.

Education actually is pretty much free in most of the world - its called a library. Or for people on here you have the whole Internet. Nothing stops you from learning/reading/studying all you want. Now if you want to go to a school and be taught - well someone has to feed that teacher since he has no time to plant for himself.

I figure it like this - we all have the right to do what we please as long as we are not infringing on the same right of other people.




posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:32 AM
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you have the right to starve, get sick /ill, be uneducated, you have the right to have no shelter, be unclothed, unskilled, to be an others slave, and be at war, you have the right to die.
Other than that, the rights you think you have are not your rights but man imposed rights for the good of the many not of the self.
You must pay to have rights, through taxes, work, school, all that make money and cost money for rights are not free nor given you must fight too have rights, through the law/legal system, by voting, by protesting, by the mighty dollar or currency then you will have the right for health, education, shelter, cloths, and then food.
If you think rice is food, rice has been used as slave feed for as long as there has been the use of slaves. Just they way i see the world today



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Maxmars

Originally posted by amaster
reply to post by Maxmars
 


The UN's statement still only seems to pertain to civil liberties; the freedom of speech, religion, oppression, equality. These are not vital to life. If you are denied food, you die. If you are denied water, you die. In some cases, being denied shelter, medicine and education can be life threatening.



There are 30 articles in the UN's declaration, many of which address the things you mention. But I would like to comment on something you said.


If you are denied food, you die. If you are denied water, you die. In some cases, being denied shelter, medicine and education can be life threatening.


You are of course correct that without food, water, and even to a large degree, shelter; you will likely perish. But being 'denied' access to those things is saying that it means to be 'blocked' from having those things, or more properly, getting them. That's a different thing.

I have heard stories of people who can't fish in their own pond on their property, or having their home seized by government 'eminent domain.' and such. I am assuming that is what you are referring to. Is that right?


Correct. In many cases the "right" to food, shelter, medicine, or clean water is denied. I think of those who were recently arrested in Florida for feeding the homeless or how they (the homeless) are being forced to evacuate their shelter under the bridge, all because some business owner doesn't want a blight near their property. (I don't mean to pick on the homeless, but they make a good example).

How many people do you hear of who claim to have their right to healthcare refused because they can’t afford insurance, or their right to education denied because they can’t afford tuition? How many children (as one poster pointed out earlier) die every day for lack of clean water? You can’t tell me that in all the technological advancements of modern society, we cannot develop an inexpensive water purifier for these impoverished areas.

I realize there is an epidemic sweeping our culture in that, more and more, we feel as though we are entitled to certain things in life through little or no effort exerted. I want to make it clear that I do not subscribe to this ideology. While I claim these five items should be our right, obtaining them is still a choice and must require some effort. We cannot expect to sit on our bottoms and wait for our food, or water, or medicine to arrive in the mail with our government check. Food is our right as it is the right of all living creatures, but even the lion must hunt for his food. For us, we must work to produce and provide the food we need. We must work to keep the water clean. We must want to be educated, and to have a roof over our head, and we must want to be healthy. It is a choice that we must make within ourselves. We must change this human condition.

This may sound sort of contradictory but its difficult to express. Perhaps a simpler way to put it is: If all these thing, these rights, (food, water, shelter, medicine, education) are free and delivered to us with no effort on our part, would you ever work? You’re basic necessities for survival are met, you need[/n] nothing else. Why would you continue to work? In our current entitlement society, we wouldn’t, and we would fail, unless we change the mindset to encourage the betterment of humanity.

Mother culture is singing us a lullaby and we’re soundly falling asleep. It’s time we wake up and change the song.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by doctornamtab
Food is the first and foremost human right. The shame of our culture is that we must slave at jobs to pay for food.


There is no such thing as "human rights". It is a fairytale to stop people whining.

Food is a human right. But you are only entitled to it if you serve.

Same for any other "right" you can think of...



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by Maxmars
reply to post by FortAnthem
 


Forgive me for replying out of turn (I know you weren't addressing me) but I wanted to thank you for inspiring me to re-write the list (As I have done in many threads long the way - apologies in advance)




1) Food
2) Clean water
3) Shelter.
4) Healthcare
5) Education


I rewrite this to my suiting. It is not a criticism of the original. But the formatting was too convenient to pass up.

1) Food
Humans always have the freedom to procure sustenance. If they must resort to self-sufficiency and forage and gather, it is their world. They may also with completely no restriction buy, sell, trade, give, donate, or negotiate any reasonably equitable terms for the procurement of food. You may not 'speculate' on food. There is enough food on this planet to feed the world - and it can remain so. As of the 21st Century, famine is an economic construct; we have the means and the opportunity to end famine forever; it is the motive that lacks.

2) Clean water
Any action that involves consumable water must obey three principles:
1 - Water must never be sold 'at profit.'
2 - Services and natural exploitation of water are strictly zero-impact on water's life-sustaining capabilities. You kill the water, you kill the people. Water pollution is a crime which would be felony-class offenses - no 'bargaining'.
3 - No group of people, be they corporate or national in sovereignty, shall impinge upon the community's access or use of the common resource all share and own.

3) Shelter.
(This is a difficult one. By shelter I suppose a house, or a physical construction, is in the mind's eye. But that can't reasonably be a right can it? We would have to redefine the idea of ownership to accomplish it. Unless we are all to live in cubicles or something.) Access to housing is probably where you are going. But we all know that "access" is short for "affordable access" (and once again we return to the economy portion of the show.)

All humans will not be obstructed in the pursuit of space in which to live. All humans are free to engage in whatever reasonable legal activity to secure housing which meets minimally acceptable safety, in which they are sovereign.

4) Healthcare
When such care is available, that service shall not be denied any person.

5) Education
You are free to access any and all public information at any time. Institutions may become accredited to offer training. No person shall be denied access to participate.

I kind of petered out there at the end.... oh well... it's late, and it's been a great read!

edit on 21-6-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)


Thank the both of you. As I stated, we must work for our “rights”.

Maxmars, your rewrite of these basic principles is exceptional. What it truly boils down is the right to not be denied such readably available and necessary resources for sustainable life at the most basic level possible with the right to pursue as much as we can desire and/or obtain through any legal mean available to us.

In regards to shelter, it is the idea that no mans home may be taken from him, nor shall he be forcefully made to vacate his dwelling without being given a reasonable, secure substitution to reside in until such hardships have been resolved. We must be granted the outright ownership of property, tax free.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by amaster
 


that everyone should have the right to earn a living, if qualified to do the work, and willing to do it.

i came to that conclusion as a teenager.
in the 1960s is was aparently considered a radical idea.

in high school when the principal mentioned that Indians were only paid half as much as whites,(because they didn't work much) i stated that under those conditions they would be lucky if i did any work at all.
it was brought to the school commitee to have me expelled from school as having radical ideas.
lucky for me everyone in town was afraid of my mom, she said she didn;t want to hear about it again, and the issue died.

when in the USAF, the base commander put me in charge of assigning personel.
i gave a desk job to an Indian.
he was a college graduate, American citizen and the most qualified to do the job.

the line chief and first sargent both let me know that you don't give a desk job to an Indian.
and wanted to know what i was going to do about it.
i said nothing, figuring they would never go to the colonel.

you talk about illegal aliens, i can't believe the discrimination against qualified citizens.

i have seen much progress during my lifetime, but also seen discrimination.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:04 AM
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I lost my response, and I'm sure this one won't be as good.
I HATE that!

Anyway, what an excellent discussion! I can't believe I'm agreeing with Jean Paul, but I am.
There is no comprehensive rights list. It would have to have thousands of entries. No one 'grants' us rights. There is no 'Rights God' handing out rights. They are OURS. The government and the laws of this country restrict ACCESS to our rights. They are still there and they are still ours, but if we exercise them, we could be incarcerated. This is how slaves are treated. We are owned.

This is not a free country (although it should be).

We are lulled into complacency by comfort and convenience. We are provided easy access to food, water, shelter and luxuries (TV, entertainment, iboxes, games, junk food) so that we won't complain when they restrict access to the great majority of our rights. We are wooed into complacency by comfort and convenience.

The laws of the land restrict our access to our rights. I have the right to grow anything I want on my property, as long as I harm no one in the process. But the law restricts that. So, I obey the law, because the trade-off (being incarcerated and losing access to my freedom) is too much of a risk for me. That's just one simple example. There are thousands.


Originally posted by amaster
If all these thing, these rights, (food, water, shelter, medicine, education) are free and delivered to us with no effort on our part, would you ever work?


Ideally (or originally) our "work" would entail hunting for deer to bring home the bacon. Now, our work is in providing the society with necessities and luxuries of life. In other words, instead of hunting, we work on a cattle farm, or drive the beef to the store, or work as a butcher, or a Safeway clerk, to contribute to the societal structure that makes these necessities and luxuries available to all. And that is the trap. We have what we need, so they can take everything else. This is messed up!



Mother culture is singing us a lullaby and we’re soundly falling asleep. It’s time we wake up and change the song.


Exactly!



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by amaster
 

All the items you have listed can be received free of charge IN PRISON... so-o-o-o-o to distinguish prisoners from the rest of the population...

6) Transportation

I'm going to add access to safe/reliable transportaion to your list... because without it you've lost a BASIC freedom to come and go at your own free will 24/7... that is unless the ability to get to your job and perform other tasks necessary for survival doesn't require FREE WILL.
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by shushu
reply to post by amaster
 

All the items you have listed can be received free of charge IN PRISON... so-o-o-o-o to distinguish prisoners from the rest of the population...

6) Transportation

I'm going to add access to safe/reliable transportaion to your list... because without it you've lost a BASIC freedom to come and go at your own free will 24/7.
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)

Yeah its called feet (apology to any disabled folks).



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Chett

Originally posted by shushu
reply to post by amaster
 

All the items you have listed can be received free of charge IN PRISON... so-o-o-o-o to distinguish prisoners from the rest of the population...

6) Transportation

I'm going to add access to safe/reliable transportaion to your list... because without it you've lost a BASIC freedom to come and go at your own free will 24/7.
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)

Yeah its called feet (apology to any disabled folks).


Apology accepted. Be careful of the groundwork you lay... because someday you could find yourself in this situation... and alot of people would love... and I DO mean LOVE to make you walk/crawl/hobble a mile in their shoes. Do you think that you're up for the challenge???
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by doctornamtab
Food is the first and foremost human right. The shame of our culture is that we must slave at jobs to pay for food.


There is no such thing as "human rights". It is a fairytale to stop people whining.

Food is a human right. But you are only entitled to it if you serve.

Same for any other "right" you can think of...


I agree. Contributing members of society deserve rights, regardless of contribution. We rank our contributions and determine access too food and shelter based on these catergories. We think janitors deserve less acess to food and shelter than CEOs. Why?

As for the logistics of it, we can subsidize the food instead of farms. This would prevent farmers from having to throw away perfectly good food to artificially maintain food prices. Why do people think that to get free food means that farmers would work for free? Farmers burn food to make sure they dont work for free. Let's keep the food AND pay the farmers. Think here, people.

Or we could stop policing the world and start feeding it. Theres trillions of dollars in the war chest that could be used for the food pantry. Theres always money for bombs and tanks, but not to feed ourselves? Hows that make any sense.

To be honest, providing free food and shelter to the entire world population is a lot EASIER logistically than warring against the world population. It takes a lot of human labor and resources to make war, but a lot less to feed ourselves. Less than 1% of the US population is a farmer, yet we feed our entire population and a lot of the rest of the world.

Nature used to provide free food, now we have to work for it. The garden of Eden was real and it was everywhere.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by shushu
 


I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Chett. Human dispersed and populated this planet on their own two feet. There have always been those who are disabled and yet we, as a collective whole, have persevered. Public transportation is not a right essential to survival. I will give you credit however for understanding it’s importance in today’s lazy entitlement society.

On a side note, prisoner or not, they are still human, and by that deserve the rights granted to each of us. By stating that they receive freely what we must work for only brings to light the glairing contradictions of our society.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by doctornamtab

I agree. Contributing members of society deserve rights, regardless of contribution.


If I may, human rights are never 'deserved' and contributions to society or one's neighbors has no affect on rights.

We are willing to accept imposed limitations on our rights because we aim to control our social environment. Of course, that it is "our" social environment and not one we a re 'subject' to marks the beginning of the dialog.


If food is available, no person should be deprived of access to it's consumption. They may have to pay for it or not, but it is not a matter of someone 'measuring' the "worth" of the human in questions. This is a real problem for a society that values "ownership of property" over mutual benefit. We'll work through this someday; but obviously there are those who don't even want to entertain such a discussion today. And they seem to have most of the resources at their disposal at the moment.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by doctornamtab
 



I agree. Contributing members of society deserve rights, regardless of contribution.


Now there's a bone of contention if there ever was one. What factors determine someone as a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER OF SOCIETY???

1) Do they own property???

2) Do they pay INCOME TAXES???

3) Do they VOLUNTEER their services to the needy???

Exactly what makes a person a contributing member of society??? And what will get him/her scratched off the list???



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by amaster
reply to post by shushu
 


I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Chett. Human dispersed and populated this planet on their own two feet. There have always been those who are disabled and yet we, as a collective whole, have persevered. Public transportation is not a right essential to survival. I will give you credit however for understanding it’s importance in today’s lazy entitlement society.

On a side note, prisoner or not, they are still human, and by that deserve the rights granted to each of us. By stating that they receive freely what we must work for only brings to light the glairing contradictions of our society.



Entitlement society??? My gawd. How many people in the big city urban environment use public transportation to go to work??? How many use the subways in NY alone??? Where in tarnation do you live anyway???
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Having a job is not a human right. Nothing is.

People have this warped sense of entitlement and what their rights should be, when in reality, the only rights you have are the opportunities that you create for yourself.

As far as illegal immigrants having a right to work, they CAN work, in their home country. If they want to work elsewhere, then go through official legal immigration channels.

Don't base your new life in your new country on a lie and expect equal treatment,.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by shushu
 


I live just outside the greater New Orleans area. Inside the city limits public transportation is important to many people, I agree. They depend on it and it is a vital resource to city life. But take away the buses, take away the taxis, the subways, the street cars, etc. and it's doubtful anyone will die. Yes I understand you're taking away their method of transportation to their job which supplies them with money for which to buy food to survive, but human resourcefulness will prevail, I promise you. Just look at the Nigerian people who run everywhere.

Where I live, in St. Tammany, there is no public transportation and we get along just fine. Many people walk, or ride bikes, or have worked to own their own car. Again, I’m not disagreeing with you that transportation is vital to both our economy and our lively hoods, but to say that public transportation is a human right is a bit extreme. Bare in mind, human rights extend to ALL humans not just those in “civilized” countries.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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I've though about this a good bit over the years. It seems to me that the concept of "rights" is a product of society, as that's the only place you can claim them. Once beyond the range of civilization (not so easy today), your "rights" promptly vanish. Take the one most people consider the most basic, the "right to life". If you're not near any other people, it doesn't exist. If you're in the middle of the desert, screaming about your "right to life" isn't going to get you a drink of water before you die of thirst. Your "right to life" obviously doesn't apply when facing any kind of deadly natural incident.

All the previously listed "rights" only apply in a society of humans. "Rights" to food, water, freedom, or anything else can only be stood upon in such a society, as humans are the only thing on the planet that might care about those "rights".

As far as I can see, probably the only "inalienable right" that can not be taken away by man or nature is the right to try. No matter what happens, from what direction, we can try. We can try to find water and food. We can try to live in freedom. We can try to just live.

We can try to keep people from oppressing us, or outright killing us. We can try to ensure that we live in a decent shelter. We can even try to swim to shore when capsized in the middle of the Pacific (where's your "right to life" there?) Nobody, or nothing, can keep us from trying. Even if you were paralyzed from the neck down, you could try to move to feed yourself. You might not succeed, but there's not a force on Earth that can keep you from trying to the best of your current ability.

Therefore, all other "rights" are created by man in an attempt to live together in a society, and thus, are "bestowed" upon us by whoever is in charge of a particular society. Since these "rights" are granted by people, they are obviously not so much "rights" as they are privileges. In the US, we are privileged to be granted the "rights" we do have, and should be constantly vigilant to ensure that they don't vanish forever.

I'm sure most here have seen the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales".(If you haven't, well, catch up!
) In the movie, the old Indian relates the tale of when he and the other Chiefs went to Washington to see the President, who told them to "endeavor to persevere". It seems to me that the Pres. was telling them of their only real right, the right to try to keep trying.

I guess the Indians took it to heart, as they went back to their people and set them against the US gvt. in a vain attempt to try to retain their freedom and lifestyle.

So remember, no matter what happens, on any front:

Endeavor to persevere.

It's the only right you can count on.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by amaster
 


Well... it's good to know that if something suddenly burned out the electrical system of every vehicle in the US... you'd be able to meet the challenge. We won't have to worry about the logistics of the supplies in your area. I can just crawl into my D.U.M.B and I won't have to worry about you. Whew! What a relief.
Pardon my scenario... afterall this is ATS.
edit on 21-6-2011 by shushu because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by shushu
 


People who contribute their time and energy, commonly called work. But work doesn't guarantee food and shelter anymore, even if we work more than one job. So something new is required to guarantee people aren't starving AND working, which is pretty widespread nowadays.

The promise of society, the reason people began to group themselves into societies was to guarantee food and shelter for each other since its easier to provide these in large groups than small groups. Rights are here to remind us of this purpose, that we're more than just ourselves, that we've joined a group with guaranteed rules and statutes against being harmed.

And yes, rights are a product of society. But its pretty hard to escape society nowadays. Rights are things that the government and economic powers cannot take away from us. The right to love, the right to hobbies, the right to free speech, the right to suicide. These are things that, when written in some special place like a constitution or holy book, cannot be taken away from people. Some are simply facts of life. Sure they can take away a right to suicide but who are they going to punish? The dead?

All rights are embodied in individualism, freedom and self expression. Take away rights and you take away these three things. Increase the scope of our rights and we increase our individualism, freedom and ability to express ourselves.

But all in all, free food is the first and foremost human right. Its also the most important right to fight for because, like all human rights, once we have it they can never take it away from us.







 
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