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Huge Bitcoin sell off due to a compromised Mt. Gox account - rollback

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posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by guessing
 




I am currently working on a new currency, it is virtual and well, you too can get it for free.
You can't get it for free I'm sorry. Actually, I lied, there are websites where rich Bitcoiners can make donations, and then everyone can get a tiny amount of Bitcoins for free (one time per IP/email).

To actually "mine" bitcoins, you will need a high end PC with a good graphics card, otherwise you'll use more in electricity than you get back in Bitcoins. While you can make a profit in mining Bitcoins if you have the right set up, the Bitcoins will not come free. It's just like mining gold, which is also a commodity. You pay for all the mining equipment, and then expect to make a profit, like any business. Check the mining page on my Bitfreak website for more info about mining and how it works.




posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by guessing
 


Your currency won't be able to compete with bitcoin.

Not to mention all the other bitcoin debunkers who claim to be doing thew same thing - you'll be competing with them too.
I'm sure he was just being sarcastic in an attempt to make an uniformed point.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by yellowbeard
An alternative recognised currency would be a good thing in this ever smaller world in which we find ourselves, one that has no national boundaries...

Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like a world-wide, cashless currency.
Isn't that one of the things TPTB is working towards?

Maybe Bitcoins=preconditioning? How can we know for sure that the whole Bitcoin thing isn't secretly backed by the NWO crowd?



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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At the end of the day you're going to see that Bitcoin is just another form of ecurrency, and no better or worse than others, like egold, LR, WMZ, et al. The bulk of ecurrencies derive their value from other fiat currencies like the dollar. eGold (and a couple others like it) derive their value from the price of gold. What does Bitcoin derive it's value from? What the market maker's assign it as. And none of them seem to be in agreement.

The big deal about Bitcoin was it's P2P structure, freeing it from a central server that could be attacked or compromised (whether by the government or hackers). The problem is that you still have to assign a value to Bitcoin, something that translates to the real world, which is why you have exchangers like Mt. Gox taking over for that "central server" role. You're right back to where you started from, now you have the market maker's, with their servers and their real world companies living under government jurisdictions, coming under attack, currently by hackers, but it could be the government next - if they compromise enough market makers who will want to touch Bitcoin? Anonymity would be gone, and the value of Bitcoin's could be subject to wild speculation or manipulation. We're already seeing the value jump all over the place just from rumors alone.

Looking at Mt. Gox's homepage, all I can think is, "What a mess...", the headlines for their recent articles would seem to indicate a complete lack of security over there:


  • Huge Bitcoin sell off due to a compromised account - rollback
  • Account recovery page will be up tomorrow morning (Japan time)
  • Still here. Still working hard to get things online.
  • DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANYTHING (due to hacking)
  • What we know and what is being done. (It appears that someone who performs audits on our system and had read-only access to our database had their computer compromised.)
  • UPDATE REGARDING LEAKED ACCOUNT INFORMATIONS



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 




Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like a world-wide, cashless currency.
It is a world-wide cashless currency, but why is that suspicious? It's not like you couldn't print it to paper.
It is definitely something the Government does not like at all. They can't manipulate it and you don't need a middle man to manage transactions and set fees. It's a currency they can't control, and if you haven't noticed, engineered debt is basically the main tool for controlling society, because it creates poverty and scarcity. The rich get richer while the masses are drained dry.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by Blackmarketeer
 




The big deal about Bitcoin was it's P2P structure, freeing it from a central server that could be attacked or compromised (whether by the government or hackers).
The big deal is also that the idea behind a digital commodity is pure genius. There's been speculation the creator is an alien.




The problem is that you still have to assign a value to Bitcoin, something that translates to the real world, which is why you have exchangers like Mt. Gox taking over for that "central server" role.
First and foremost, the value can be calculated by the amount of electricity used to create the Bitcoins. But mostly, the value in relation to other currencies will depend on supply and demand of BTC. Supply doesn't change very quickly, and demand is proportional to how usable Bitcoin actually is as a currency and a way to purchase things. So the price will fluctuate quite a lot, especially in these relatively early stages. Gold is used to back currencies because it is a commodity, but Bitcoin is also a commodity.



You're right back to where you started from, now you have the market maker's, with their servers and their real world companies living under government jurisdictions, coming under attack, currently by hackers, but it could be the government next
So what if they are under Government jurisdictions, that does not affect the usage of Bitcoin. In fact, if online exchanges get banned or taken down Bitcoin could still be used to buy things, it would just be harder to get USD or other currencies in exchange for Bitcoins. The Government might be able to monitor websites that use Bitcoin, like exchanges, but they can't monitor my actual Bitcoin transactions and what I buy with my Bitcoins.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 

But what if the government/PTB are the ones behind it in the first place? Then they could manipulate it all they want. I'm sure you don't believe that software can't be manipulated? I mean, when it comes down to it, all it takes is a savvy hacker to add or subtract a few zeros. Unlike gold, Bitcoins are just ones and zeros on a computer. Just because the system is set up to use x resources to create a BC, doesn't mean that can't be changed with a few keystrokes.

Just playing devil's advocate here. I don't believe that it's a nefarious plot by TPTB, but it's possible.

I still can't see how BCs aren't a scam. When someone offers to sell me some money, of any kind, alarms start clanging in my head. I guess time will tell.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 




I still can't see how BCs aren't a scam. When someone offers to sell me some money, of any kind, alarms start clanging in my head. I guess time will tell.
"selling money" is actually called exchanging currencies. Just like you could buy AUD dollars with USD dollars; you can buy Bitcoins with USD dollars.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 




But what if the government/PTB are the ones behind it in the first place? Then they could manipulate it all they want. I'm sure you don't believe that software can't be manipulated? I mean, when it comes down to it, all it takes is a savvy hacker to add or subtract a few zeros.
If it were that easy, it would have been done by now. The way it works is not so simple, and if it were to ever be hacked every single Bitcoin would become worthless. That's what people are mainly worried about I would guess. Time will tell, but I've read enough to understand it's not so easily compromised, due to the encryption techniques and P2P validation of payments.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
"selling money" is actually called exchanging currencies. Just like you could buy AUD dollars with USD dollars; you can buy Bitcoins with USD dollars.

True. However, AUDs are, I'd imagine, backed by Australia. Who backs bitcoins?
Also, the exchange rate between USDs and AUDs can, as you've pointed out, be manipulated. Why is the exchange rate between USDs and BCs different? Judging from the way BC prices have been fluctuating, I'm not seeing the difference.

Maybe I'm just thick headed, but I'm not seeing the difference.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by subject x

True. However, AUDs are, I'd imagine, backed by Australia.


Backed with what by Australia?

Gold? Land? What are the AUD backed by?



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 




True. However, AUDs are, I'd imagine, backed by Australia. Who backs bitcoins?
Also, the exchange rate between USDs and AUDs can, as you've pointed out, be manipulated. Why is the exchange rate between USDs and BCs different? Judging from the way BC prices have been fluctuating, I'm not seeing the difference.
The value of a regular currency can be manipulated because the generation of that currency can be controlled and manipulated, Bitcoin production can't really be manipulated. The Government could probably buy a large mining set-up and try to gain a huge portion of the Bitcoin currency, but that would be almost impossible, without costing them an infeasible amount of money.

The exchange rate can't be manipulated for this reason, and also because it actually depends on buy and sell offers. Unless every exchange was Government controlled, independent exchanges would dictate the value of Bitcoin via traders making offers to buy and sell Bitcoin. It's supply and demand, as I said.


edit on 20-6-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 

Damned if I know. At least they're recognized at my local bank. I know they mint (or at least have minted) gold coins, so they must have something going on. I doubt the BC guys can say the same.
What are BCs backed with? My bank won't sell me those.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Bitcoin production can't really be manipulated.

Nonsense. They're created by a program, programs can be manipulated. Maybe not easily, but they can be.
Or is this the world's first 100% hack-proof software?



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by subject x
What are BCs backed with? My bank won't sell me those.



If you go to your bank and ask to speak with someone maybe they'll show you what you need to do to purchase bitcoins and then help you get them.

Also, you haven't done your research. The "I imagine" and the "Damned if I know" prove this. This being the case, perhaps you are not in a position to play devil's advocate.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


of course bit coin can be manufactured and manipulated - if you believe it cannot - you are delusional



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:14 AM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


You're sort of missing my point Chaotic, even if one were to accept Bitcoins as a legit currency, the concept that they are a decentralized, P2P "commodity", fully anonymous and free from government control, is undermined when the only way to assign them value, or derive value from them, is to move back to a network of miners and traders set up on real-world networks using real-world servers all under some form of government jurisdiction. It also doesn't help that most of these miners and traders are just "some dudes on the Web" - are they legit, hackers, crackers, shady operators, or government agents...?



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by subject x
 




Nonsense. They're created by a program, programs can be manipulated. Maybe not easily, but they can be.
Or is this the world's first 100% hack-proof software?
The Bitcoin software/client is simply a graphical interface for interacting with the Bitcoin P2P network. Try making invalid transactions and see how far you get. There is a tiny weak point, where if there enough invalid nodes an invalid transaction could be verified, but I'm not sure how easy that would be to pull off. What I've read indicates it would be near impossible, and you'd have more luck hacking a normal bank account.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1
If you go to your bank and ask to speak with someone maybe they'll show you what you need to do to purchase bitcoins and then help you get them.

I'll take a pass on that. They still smell like a scam to me.

Also, you haven't done your research. The "I imagine" and the "Damned if I know" prove this. This being the case, perhaps you are not in a position to play devil's advocate.

Sorry I didn't research Australia's economy before I joined a conversation about Bitcoins. I should have realized it was necessary.
Discussing and asking questions is how we learn. I'm just trying to figure out the attraction to Bitcoins, and why folks seem to think they're a better form of currency.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:21 AM
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The AUD is backed up by the same thing as every other currency........ blind faith

The only reason any currency is viable is because everybody agrees that it has a perceived value, even gold, silver and "precious" stones have no real use to the average person, they're only really any use in industry. It's just a mystique has been created round them that gives them any allure to use for decorative purposes. If two people agree that X amount of Australian dollars is worth an hour of your work then that currency has a value.
I'd work for polished dog turds IF those polished turds could then be used to purchase food or something else I needed.




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