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Miracle in Gaza

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posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


oh my did i touch a nerve?
down to ad hominems are we now?

just like i thought :



until next year, in Jerusalem,then,

or perhaps not.

oh and just in case: naif

as Rebbe Akiba said to the proselyte: "Go and study"




posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Your "Miracle" was a preemptive Israeli air-strike that left the Egyptian Air Forces completely devastated, virtually guaranteeing the IDF air supremacy for the duration of the 6 day war.

Now.... I'm no fan of Israel... But seriously... I think you are actually insulting them, saying that the only reason they won was "Because God said so"

I also don't think that their preemptive strike was justified.... but you would have to be BLIND to think that it was not a successful strategy, that single-handedly guaranteed their victory.

en.wikipedia.org...

There is a reason that Aircraft are some of the most heavily researched, and high tech weapons on the battlefield.

It's because they are ESSENTIAL for modern warfare, and can drastically swing a war in your favor if you have air supremacy.

After that... tank battalions fall like dominoes.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 08:09 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by premierepastimes
 


"I respect the fact that you replied. It gives you much more credibility of not just being a hate-monger toward Israel or the Jewish people in general"

i leave the hate-mongering for trolls and propagandists


" I would like to point out the fact that you did not bring up Zionists until quite far through your post, after you had made these statements:"


Yes my mistake was assuming when we talk about israel here we are not talking about the mass public . But its administration.

Just like when we talk about usa we are talking about the administration not the american people .

But next time i guess i have to be more clear. All the topics on ATS surrounding the zionists you would think this was a given but i guess not . No problem i'll be more clear next time. But my point was always the same with the "dirty tricks".


i still stand by the dirty tricks only differnce is i should've been clear when i say israel i mean the administration. Just like if i talk about the usa i am talking about its administration .


"the Wiki sources do help clarify what you mean by dirty tricks but I feel it is an unfair statement since EVERY MAJOR NATION OF THE ENTIRE WORLD USES THESE TACTICS!"

Sure but most of them don't get caught red handed like Israel has . and Israels excuses when they do get caught . Its disturbing

secondly the point of the wiki links was to show its no miracle its dirty tricks as usual with israel.


" To pretend like Israel is the worst seems off-base in my opinion"


Not worst but one of the worse . This thread happen to be about israel which is why its in the spotlite

im well aware of other countries and there atrocities we shall save those for those threads?

but this thread is about israel and "miracles"

"If you have top level security clearance for all nations and have a deep understanding of what really goes on behind the scenes then feel free to enlighten me"

to get that i might have to go through israel first loool


"Because I have no clue except what I can decipher through propaganda"

if what i've posted is a surprise and news to you then im sorry about the rock you've been living under...


instead of propaganda call it information ?


"I know if my neighbors made these statements about my country:
"We shall not enter Palestine with its soil covered in sand, we shall enter it with its soil saturated in blood" - President of Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser "


I do not support this statement either. Its barbaric and not something a man of god should ever say . Does this justify dirty tricks ?


i can counter 50 anti-israel quotes for your points from palestine but it doesnt serve a purpose in this thread.


i think both parties are in the wrong with how they are approaching this situation. Both parties have issues to deal with



"Also, there is very little separation between Zionist and Israeli's"

I know thats the cloak they keep suckering in some jews with . So they think when Zionists are attacked so are jews. But couldnt be further from the truth . Sorry mr.propaganda


"Do you know the difference between a man from Afghanistan and a terrorist?"

I will by his actions . A wise man once told me actions speak louder then words?


"The only difference is what the government tells you is the difference"

umm the government is the ones i have a problem with .... why would i listien to there version when i know its a movie version of the facts?

Why am i here on ATS ? to deny ignorance no ?


"It is terminology in my opinion and is a great way to fight a race of people without acknowledging the fact that it is a race-based assault or ethnic cleansing"


Of course your take it as that . Your still in the denail stage . . But in reality it couldn't be further from the truth

i know it must be hard to see it with all the propaganda you've been fed about israel and its true intentions . But stay on ats you might learn a thing or two


oh here is a good docu for u ! This documentary paints a great picture for you to get a better understanding of why zionism and jews are two differnt things just like suicide bombers and muslims and catholics and child molestors


wolves in sheeps clothing using the religion as a cloak to justify there actions





posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 





"So Judaism is a religious movement now? It must be the oldest on earth then; some 3500 years old"

lets see....


"Clearly, there is a religion called Judaism, a set of ideas about the world and the way we should live our lives that is called "Judaism." It is studied in Religious Studies courses and taught to Jewish children in Hebrew schools" - www.jewfaq.org...


"Judaism is the "religion, philosophy, and way of life" of the Jewish people" - en.wikipedia.org...


yes lets stick to a religion and not beat around the bush ?



oldest religion ? Hardly .....

check out ...


en.wikipedia.org...


"the idiot orthodox Jews who campaign for palestine"

idiot eh ?


"they follow the philosophies of Sabbatai Sevi and Jacob Frank, and many of them live double lives. On the outside, they appear as Orthodox Jews. In private, theyre antinomian anarchists."

talking to you i feel like you live double lives for some reason , double lives is such a vague descripton and circular argument that i could accuse you of...

but of course it would be hearsay....



If this were true, how come only a few hundred Jews are willing to campaign against Zionism?


great question!! watch this and find out .


www.youtube.com...



"Infact, the majority of Orthodox Jews are either Zionist, or opposed to the secular state"


actually the majoirty are in there sheeple mode like the same with muslims and hindus and christians and catholics .. who know headlines of there religion but not in context to get a full grasp and understanding... you know the type where they scare you a nd tell you that you need years of research to understand scripture . So they give the "trust us scholars" will translate for you and tell you the truth

come on take my word for it!!!

i wouldnt lie would i ? i'm a man of god! loool


the majoirty of jews are fed the same propaganda that the muslim scholars feed and the christian and catholic scholars feed...

its only when you dig in your self that you find out how full of # people really are and what kinda poo they feed you to justify there actions ... works great espically on religious people because of how easily they have there guard down

just because "mr holy man " is preaching lol


"Zionism is simply a clever term for Judaism. One who opposes Zionism, opposes Judaism, and thus Jews who abide by the traditional teachings of Judaism"


yea cleaver like extremists terrorists a.k.a suicide bombers who are really just "muslims" right?


or cleaver term like child molestors but catholic priest ? there the same thing right ?

one who opposes zionism opposes judaism ???

so one who opposes suicde bombers opposes islam??

accourding to your logic ...?


the reason why there coined zionists to distinguish the wolves in sheeps clothing its that simple....


you refuse to accept it because your in the denial stage like many people....


but thankfully people are starting to wake up more and more to the zionists propaganda machine


"Very few side with the traitors and heretics called the naturei Karta"

traitor and heretics.... what year is this?



" Like i said, many of them are doing what theyre doing for political purposes"

thats right zionism = political purpose =)

jews = religious purpose =)


now your getting it


Whats this guy saying ?




posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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"The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship, USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy torpedo boats, on June 8, 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two Marines, and one civilian), wounded 170 crew members, and severely damaged the ship"

en.wikipedia.org...



"Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the identity of the USS Liberty"



LOOOL ?



"A number of survivors, and some U.S. diplomats and intelligence officials involved in the incident, continue to dispute these official findings, saying the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was not a mistake,[6] and it remains "the only maritime incident in U.S. history where [U.S.] military forces were killed that was never investigated by the [U.S.] Congress"


what a shame......but its israel . What they say goes right? Don't dare question them or else your anti-semitic lol give me a break


Jews that defend zionism is a disgrace but of course understandable they have the zionist propaganda machine to make sure jews stay in check.


good luck to those jews in waking up for this hazy reality ....



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 


sigh, don't waste any more time here man.
look at that reply above notice how hysterical he's getting?
soon you'll touch a nerve, rock his little world, he'll start foaming at the mouth, and begin projecting his own mental problems on you.

a rabbi could come on the thread point out all his errors and be accused of being crazy
and he still doesn't know the Gaon from Bar Kokba

====================================================


oh and dontreally don't bother replying if you haven't got anything rational to say
it just wastes everybody's time and i have 47 other tabs open

shalom

meh.
edit on 20-6-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by seedofchucky
 





actually the majoirty are in there sheeple mode like the same with muslims and hindus and christians and catholics .. who know headlines of there religion but not in context to get a full grasp and understanding... you know the type where they scare you a nd tell you that you need years of research to understand scripture . So they give the "trust us scholars" will translate for you and tell you the truth


HUH? Why are the anti-zionists the ones that go on senseless rants?

What do you think Rabbis do all day? Some Orthodox Jews happen to be some of the most educated and informed people. For instance, one of my Rabbis is a former producer at BBC; went to Oxford University and earned in a degree in classic literature... He is among a very large crowd of religious zionists; ie; the philosophy of Abraham Isaac Kook.

I know you like talking about this, and imagining you can defend the "Jewish" argument of the Naturei Karta, but the facts are, most educated and informed Orthodox Jews are ZIONISTS; Zionist because Zionist means a Jew deserves a homeland too; and his only natural, and biblically promised homeland is Israel; Judea, Samaria (the so called westbank) and the rest of the land between the rivers. If this is Zionist; fine. Judaism is Zionist. Only hippy liberals who interpret Judaism in hellenistic terms is able to make everything in the bible into some metaphorical, only abstract idea that has no applicability in this world.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


My understanding was that there were different varieties of zionism; the political zionism that you constantly espouse, which is "kill the Arabs, take their stuff" is one. Another is a notion that "zion" is a spiritual oneness with god.

Personally, I think that the many Jews quoted and presented in video on this thread have far more authority on the subject than some ignorant goy who pretends to be a Jew on the internet to justify his own hatreds.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


Hey, I just wrote out a big long response, reading through your responses and making little comments and such...but it dawned on me pretty quickly that what you want is not the same as I. Piety is not my virtue, it comes in waves, and I think this is a virtue you possess. But knowing about a mango tree will never explain the taste of a mango, one must grab the fruit and bite into it, this is why you wont understand the message I am trying to convey to you.

There are colours that I never knew existed, that brought memories from before my own birth, there are deserts filled with spheres to other worlds I never fathom having courage enough to enter, there are beings high and low, that dont exist in some fantasy, but are moving in and out of you and I, affecting and reacting to our every choice- all the time!.

I think if you were able to see those dimensions and the beings behind the actions you support, you would quickly denounce the ties you hold. If I could be so blunt, you dont sound like you genuinely believe this stuff you promote is right, I think if you did you wouldnt even bother debating it with any of us. Maybe take a step back see what you are really after.

pm me to talk outside this arena if you want



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by gravitational
 


Israel did attack Jordan in 1949, in 1967 Israel was attacked by Jordan. You are getting your dates wrong and the History books I read say just as you claim. I clearly stated that Jordan only actively joined Israels war of independe which happened in 1949 not 1967 when Israel launched an attack to capture Jerusalem. I am not a revionist, you just can't read properly.
edit on 21-6-2011 by SpeachM1litant because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by TheWalkingFox
 


First, no one in this thread or at this site has my level of knowledge of Judaism. I may not have much - compared to a full time scholar - but up till now, i have not seen another religious poster at this site. And if did see one, he wouldnt hesitate to support me here.




Another is a notion that "zion" is a spiritual oneness with god.


Its both. The spiritual 'zion' - which means marker - refers to a connection and closeness with the creator. Just as Yeru Shalayim (Jerusalem) can mean "Complete Awe" . One who is close to Zion, is in a state of complete awe.

But on the other hand; this world is not to be separated from the higher world (as you and other pagans fancy). Eretz Yisrael also occupies a particular place on planet Earth - and not just as a metaphysical idea.. And this place - regarded by biblical tradition as the 'naval of the world' - has been alotted by the creator of the universe to a particular people to serve as priests to mankind; in essence, their job is to serve as a symbol to the rest of us. As i just explained, one of the meanings of Jerusalem is 'complete awe', and the city which bears its name is the physical analogue of this spiritual metaphysical reality.

Evenetually, the uniqueness of Eretz Yisrael will spread outward to affect all mankind; and the world with it. This the Ramchal (a kabbalist of the 18th century) says will happen towards the end of the 7th millenium.


presented in video on this thread have far more authority


And they are in this minority. I know teh positions of the majority crowd, and i side with them. Have you read the works of Abraham Isaac Kook? Do you know his theological reasonings, according to Torah, Talmudic and Kabbalistic thought, why Religious Jews regard this current abberation the 'beginnings of the redemtpion".

The naturei Karta are heretics. They have forfeited all claim to Israel; how on earth they can even claim to be observant Jews is a mystery. They have no desire to return to Israel. They enjoy their Galut (Exile) and they imagine what happened in Germany wont ever happen again; even though we have promises from Alice Bailey in her anti-semitic writings that the UN and the world will make sure to 'gradually dissolve' Orthodox Judaism - because of its separative emphasis and obsolete teachings.



than some ignorant goy who pretends to be a Jew on the internet to justify his own hatreds.


What a pathetic person you are.

So i have to convert to understand Judaism? I cant have - my current count - over 200 books on subjects ranging from Rashis commentary to the Torah (5 books, Artscroll edition with commentary) Rambans commentary on the Torah (maimonides; 7 books artscroll with commentaries), Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch on the Torah (7 volumes) Full collection of the Mishnah Kehati (21 volumes), Books of Rambam (Maimonides), his 13 principles of Emunah, guide to the perplexed, Ramchal, Arizal, Moses Cordevero, Duties of the heart, etc etc etc .....

I have two book shelves 8 feet in height filled with just Jewish books. And i study every day, 2-4 hours worth of Torah and Judaism, in addition to my secular studies.

For a guy who knows nothing at all about this subject to call me an 'ignorant goy' (an entirely antisemitic remark btw) when the one saying this cant even read a sentance of Hebrew, is infact, quite arrogant and laughable.
edit on 21-6-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:05 AM
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reply to post by el1jah
 



dp
edit on 21-6-2011 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


what puzzles me is that if all humans are from "Adam", and Adam was created in the Garden of Eden.....

what makes one group of "people" or one single "religion" any better than any other ?

what or who would really "define" a "privilege" and on what basis....."Human Performance" ?

and what place in "Human dignity" would, for example, a person born in Siberia 10,000 years ago ?

why is not the Garden of Eden the "promised" land ?

is every religion by self proclamation ?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by xuenchen

why is not the Garden of Eden the "promised" land ?


because according to the satanists God's creation is not good enough.


Originally posted by dontreally[/i
Thus, Judaisms "dogma" is a sensible one.

Funny you say that,
Rabbinical court rules dog to be stoned to death ,
rabbis say dog is a reincarnation.

Since when did ATS become a forum for proselytizing ? ? you
must be confused, take your sell / proselytizing else where.
Just note, professed knowledge is only an empty tool bearing
NO-right of 'return'.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 05:30 AM
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Originally posted by ToneDeaf

Originally posted by xuenchen

why is not the Garden of Eden the "promised" land ?


because according to the satanists God's creation is not good enough.



perhaps "not good enough" was referring to "not good enough economically" !!

the economic logistics of 1948 Israel may have been better suited than the Baghdad region ?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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reply to post by dontreally
 


No response at all?

Someone should start sending mental health care professionals to people like you to check if you're okay or not.



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by gravitational
 


Israel did attack Jordan in 1949, in 1967 Israel was attacked by Jordan. You are getting your dates wrong and the History books I read say just as you claim. I clearly stated that Jordan only actively joined Israels war of independe which happened in 1949 not 1967 when Israel launched an attack to capture Jerusalem. I am not a revionist, you just can't read properly.
edit on 21-6-2011 by SpeachM1litant because: (no reason given)


Your are truly unbelievable.
How can you say Israel attacked Jordan in 1949 when it's the same continues war we are talking about that began in 1948, in which Israel was the one to be attacked.

“General Glubb's Arab Legion occupied much of the Old City of Jerusalem without opposition and then captured and held the eastern and southern parts of New Jerusalem after hard fighting (May 15–25). Helped by local Palestinian Arabs, the Arab Legion then captured and held the Jewish quarter of Old Jerusalem (May 15–28). The Arab Legion also captured Latrun and held it against repeated Israeli attacks to drive them out (May 25–30 and June 9–10)....

en.wikipedia.org...-Israeli_War_.281948-49.29



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 03:28 PM
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a bit off topic... but are there any pro-israel people who believe that God fights Israels wars who can explain why Israel was humiliated by a bunch of Hezbollah guys in 2006?



posted on Jun, 21 2011 @ 10:06 PM
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For instance, one of my Rabbis is a former producer at BBC; went to Oxford University and earned in a degree in classic literature... He is among a very large crowd of religious zionists; ie; the philosophy of Abraham Isaac Kook.



Looks like you were lying when you said you weren't Jewish.

Are you that ashamed to be Jewish that you feel the need to hide it?

No one should ever be ashamed of who they are.
edit on 6/21/2011 by YourPopRock because: I forgot to get down on Friday!



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