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You're deluded! (And so am I)

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posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 04:42 PM
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You may be an advocate for worker's rights and self-determination, yet you probably purchase clothing made in nations with fairly autocratic regimes by workers who are treated no better than slaves. You probably have some notion of sustainable and responsible environmental practices, yet you continually purchase products and use services from companies that rape the planet. You could rail against the government and its practices...all while failing to actually participate in politics in even the most minute way, not even voting.

Why? It's called cognitive dissonance. Most literally it means a way in which the brain holds two contradictory ideas at the same time.

A good example would be that you're a caring person...yet you completely pass by a homeless person without a care. Or maybe you think you're relatively smart (who doesn't?), yet you often do incredibly stupid things (again, who doesn't?).

We do it all the time, and I put forth that the place that is exemplary of this is religion. That is why I find that religious people who are deeply convinced are so difficult to persuade. It's easier for the brain to participate in cognitive dissonance than admit fault.

Prophecy didn't come to pass? Cognitive dissonance. In fact, that cognitive dissonance was exemplified within the first century of the existence of Christianity when the world didn't end. Yes, Jesus predicted the end of the world within the lifetime of the first generation of Christians...yet so many centuries of cognitive dissonance have built up that no Christian will admit that. In fact, I'd put forth that the entirety of apologetic practice within any religion is an organized practice in cognitive dissonance, as that which is true would need no apology. Apologetics don't convince the unbeliever, they merely reinforce belief and squash doubt in those who believe.

This is why I'd feel comfortable in saying this: Religious people are deluded!
Why? Well, I'm an environmentalist who doesn't take enough care of the environment. I'm a bleeding heart that buys clothes from sweatshops. I'm a political activist who hasn't voted the last three times he's had a chance. I'm deluded, just about different things.


I'll also put forth that this also explains why so few Christians have read the Bible yet aren't bothered by their failure to do so.




posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Since you are so committed and caring about our delusions,and since you are obviously all knowing(since you know YHWH the god of Israel is made up,even though you are a tiny little particle in this vast universe) i would like you to point me in the right direction so i can see the root of my delusion...
Can you please post us here part of the verse in witch Jeshua is giving the false prophecy.

Thanks very much

Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Matthew 7:6



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by LicentiaEstVox
 


He's talking about Matthew chapter 24. But stop at verse 35 if you want to read the chapter in the same context as the skeptics.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


This isn't a matter of being a believer,it is a matter of our own egos,like i can do what i want and never pay for it...i am sorry so much people are in for a bad surprise.
Peace



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:16 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


It's not out of context when he says this generation, we've gone over this but your cognitive dissonance, heaped atop the 1850+ years of additional cognitive dissonance created by Christians isn't letting you see that simple fact.

The sentence construction refers to the people he is talking to, you don't need to be an expert in Hellenistic Greek (or any Greek for that matter) to understand that basic issue.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by LicentiaEstVox
 



Originally posted by LicentiaEstVox
reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Since you are so committed and caring about our delusions,


...about all delusions. Yet I don't actively go out of my way to help people with all of their delusions (wooo yet another instance of my own delusion!)



and since you are obviously all knowing(since you know YHWH the god of Israel is made up,even though you are a tiny little particle in this vast universe)


Yay! A straw man for me to play with. I'll add it to my vast collection. Of course, if the "Yahweh" you refer to, the one that is the deity of Israel, is as described via action in the Bible, it wouldn't require omniscience to simply point out a lack of global flood, a lack of evidence to support the history of the Old Testament as described, and the fact that an omnipotent deity being beaten by iron chariots is silly.



i would like you to point me in the right direction so i can see the root of my delusion...


Which one? We all have many.



Can you please post us here part of the verse in witch Jeshua is giving the false prophecy.


It's found in the synoptic gospels.



Luk 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
Mar 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.





Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Matthew 7:6


I'd like to take this as a teachable moment. Why are you quoting one of the most ignorant passages in the New Testament?

Yes, it's ignorant. Why? Well...it's preaching separation. Instead of encouraging understanding and community it's preaching to not even bother with 'pigs' (though I prefer the poetry of 'swine'). Non-Christians would be the best group to present your teachings to just for the sake of creating a greater understanding of where you're coming from, even if the others aren't going to accept the position as part of their own worldview.
edit on 19/6/11 by madnessinmysoul because: Quote fix



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by LicentiaEstVox
 


The refrain that I've been reciting all too often these last few weeks: "Not this excrement again"


Originally posted by LicentiaEstVox
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


This isn't a matter of being a believer,it is a matter of our own egos,like i can do what i want and never pay for it...


What? I'm a non-believer and I firmly believe that I can do what I want but that there are necessary consequences of varying degrees both positive and negative for all of my actions. If I harm someone I may possibly get away with it or I may have a great amount of social stigma or even judicial action put against me.

Hell, OJ Simpson, who was acquitted by the court system, has lost a great deal of his life due to people perceiving that he is a murderer.



i am sorry so much people are in for a bad surprise.


Yes, that straw man arguments never work against people who understand what they are.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:39 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
You may be an advocate for worker's rights and self-determination, yet you probably purchase clothing made in nations with fairly autocratic regimes by workers who are treated no better than slaves. You probably have some notion of sustainable and responsible environmental practices, yet you continually purchase products and use services from companies that rape the planet. You could rail against the government and its practices...all while failing to actually participate in politics in even the most minute way, not even voting.

Why? It's called cognitive dissonance. Most literally it means a way in which the brain holds two contradictory ideas at the same time.



You can call it Cognitive Dissonance, but I think what you describe is more aptly referred to as Hypocrisy. If you do not practice what you preach, you are a hypocrit. Simple.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


Okay, I give up. I don't want you to put me in my place again by posting that you once owned a concordance.



posted on Jun, 19 2011 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Matthew 7:6

Just what i said



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Hey look, it's a dishonest and idiotic appeal to ridicule, a red herring, and a direct lie. I've repeatedly asked you to show me evidence of someone who has examined the Hellenistic Greek and come up with conclusive proof that the syntax of the sentence differs greatly from any translation into English, if you don't bother it's your fault.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by LicentiaEstVox
 


And the quote is still fundamentally idiotic. If I'm a pig (still prefer swine) for pointing out that the Bible is wrong about thing and that Jesus made a failed prophecy (which would, by the Bible's standards, make him a false prophet)...then you sort of proved my point.

Your book has various 'defense mechanisms' built in that inherently demonize those who don't believe simply for questioning. That should tip you off to something being wrong with your book. It shouldn't be something that you repeatedly quote as if you have some wonderful little game-winner.

You even proved my point when you didn't bother responding to my post...



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Hey look, it's a dishonest and idiotic appeal to ridicule, a red herring, and a direct lie. I've repeatedly asked you to show me evidence of someone who has examined the Hellenistic Greek and come up with conclusive proof that the syntax of the sentence differs greatly from any translation into English, if you don't bother it's your fault.


They sell Kleenex on Malta correct?

You've not justified YOUR position on the Greek, there is nothing for me to argue against until you do so. You have the burden of proof to show that the vast majority of Greek/Christian scholars for the last 2,000 years have been fundamentally wrong.

Not to mention the other NT apostles and authors.

The "this generation" is the generation who witnesses the events Christ alludes to with the parable of the fig tree hint. You can't grasp that the apostles asked Jesus three questions in Matthew chapter 24, not one.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 03:16 AM
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the world did end then. many just don't realize it
and some are just attempting to "look alive"



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I feel you are very frustrated and aggressive in attitude,and i find that sad because i wish all the best for my fellow brothers.
But if someone is intentionally not willing to see what is in front of them,i can offer my humble help,but i will not "throw pearls before pigs" (sry its just this quote is so accurate in description of today's atheist community).

If you know about cognitive dissonance and i can see you use it often as an attribute in discussions,then you know it also refers to you closing eyes to the truth because you don't find it comfortable.

I really wish you all the best and for you to find one true and only God in your heart,Yahweh,He gave His own son for you to have eternal life...if u reject it you are no better or smarter than a swine.


Peace my brother



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 04:25 AM
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reply to post by LicentiaEstVox
 


Almost forgot:

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Matthew 7:13

Does this sound like someone who hates you or loves you?
Look it this way,someone gives you a dollar and says if you don't spend it in a day,he will give you 1 million more(materialistic version so you can comprehend it easier),well than,will you eat that day,or eat your whole life?
It is stupid,but its the best i could came up with sorry xD
Think about it,abiding His laws is not easy,living His word even harder,but the reward is glorious!

Stay well



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I just want to say thanks,for the video in your signature,it really made my day,and that Driscoll guy is really charismatic and truly blessed with the Holy Spirit.
God bless you



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 05:34 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 



Yes, it's ignorant. Why? Well...it's preaching separation. Instead of encouraging understanding and community it's preaching to not even bother with 'pigs' (though I prefer the poetry of 'swine'). Non-Christians would be the best group to present your teachings to just for the sake of creating a greater understanding of where you're coming from, even if the others aren't going to accept the position as part of their own worldview.


I do not think that is teaching separation. In fact it makes a lot of sense if you read it in context. Here is the context.


Mat 7:1 "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
Mat 7:2 "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and [fn]by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
Mat 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Mat 7:4 "Or how [fn]can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
Mat 7:5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Mat 7:6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.


In short chapter 7 goes like this.

Chapter 7:1-6 [Judging others-"Pearls offered to swine"]

Chapter 7:7-14 [Perseverance in Prayer - The Golden Rule]

Chapter 7:15-23 [False prophets and true disciples]

Chapter 7:24-29 [Foundations on rock and sand]

That´s the context of Matthew chapter 7.

Hope that helps.

Peace



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 06:22 AM
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MIyourS,

have you never had the experience all you write is to yourself? Learn from it. Move on with your life. There is so much ahead of the road. Enjoy life. Don't listen to hate. Your experience is precious. Soon you'll burst with energy and joy.

the very best

E.W.



posted on Jun, 20 2011 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Originally posted by NOTurTypical
They sell Kleenex on Malta correct?


I foresee great levels of idiocy and ignorance!



You've not justified YOUR position on the Greek, there is nothing for me to argue against until you do so.


Ok, here's my justification: The syntax is preserved throughout every single translation into English. There. Go ahead and tell me why the translations are wrong.



You have the burden of proof to show that the vast majority of Greek/Christian scholars for the last 2,000 years have been fundamentally wrong.


I did. Oh, and last I checked, the vast majority of those scholars are prejudiced against the idea of Jesus being wrong.



Not to mention the other NT apostles and authors.


Like Paul? Who kept implying that the end was imminent?



The "this generation" is the generation who witnesses the events Christ alludes to with the parable of the fig tree hint.


....no, the fig tree isn't a 'hint', it's a comparison. When you, the people he is talking to, see the things I am describing, it's like you'll know fig trees are getting ripe.




You can't grasp that the apostles asked Jesus three questions in Matthew chapter 24, not one.


...and you can't grasp basic honesty because it doesn't matter how many questions were asked, it matters how he answered them.

Also, why are you harping on one out of three versions of the story? Hell, why are you harping on the chronologically middle variant of the story?







 
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