Human consciousness is much more than mere brain activity

Originally posted by unityemissions
NDEs and OBEs are pretty much explainable, but you need to understand the subconscious is very powerful first...

Could you elaborate on this?

This is an area where I have both zero knowledge and zero experience, and therefore a lot of different unsupported speculations in my head.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by skywalker_
reply to post by unityemissions

 

please know that you can prove yourself wrong by doing some research on NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation.. you are simply wrong about consciousness not being able to exist outside of the body. If even one case appears to be correct, verify the information yourself, and then you can prove yourself wrong again..

Reincarnation?!

NDEs and OBEs are pretty much explainable, but you need to understand the subconscious is very powerful first...

Ahhah Of course they are explainable. The question is, is the explanation accurate and correct? So explain then……….

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by skywalker_
reply to post by unityemissions

 

please know that you can prove yourself wrong by doing some research on NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation.. you are simply wrong about consciousness not being able to exist outside of the body. If even one case appears to be correct, verify the information yourself, and then you can prove yourself wrong again..

Reincarnation?!

NDEs and OBEs are pretty much explainable, but you need to understand the subconscious is very powerful first...

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

As for the NDE's, and OBE's, there are tidbits of science that point to probable explanations. I've integrated enough to realize that there's really no good reason to add in mystical/supernatural hogwash. It just doesn't fit. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I see no good reason to change my opinions based on the information gathered thus far. As new information is obtained, the understanding may evolve.

I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

Originally posted by unityemissions
I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

How 'bout a metaphor?

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

As for the NDE's, and OBE's, there are tidbits of science that point to probable explanations. I've integrated enough to realize that there's really no good reason to add in mystical/supernatural hogwash. It just doesn't fit. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I see no good reason to change my opinions based on the information gathered thus far. As new information is obtained, the understanding may evolve.

I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

edit on 22-6-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

There is no reason to think that reincarnation doesn't exist either, whatsoever.


Such assumptions of what happens after death is for those drowning in their own ignorance. To think it does or does not exist is speaking blindly. There is no reason to think that either/or isn't possible.

Super natural hogwash is entirely plausible as it cannot be proven otherwise.

Originally posted by 11118

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

As for the NDE's, and OBE's, there are tidbits of science that point to probable explanations. I've integrated enough to realize that there's really no good reason to add in mystical/supernatural hogwash. It just doesn't fit. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I see no good reason to change my opinions based on the information gathered thus far. As new information is obtained, the understanding may evolve.

I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

edit on 22-6-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

There is no reason to think that reincarnation doesn't exist either, whatsoever.


Such assumptions of what happens after death is for those drowning in their own ignorance. To think it does or does not exist is speaking blindly. There is no reason to think that either/or isn't possible.

Super natural hogwash is entirely plausible as it cannot be proven otherwise.

edit on 22-6-2011 by 11118 because: (no reason given)

"it cannot be proven " ? And what is your criteria for proven?

Originally posted by 11118


There is no reason to think that reincarnation doesn't exist either, whatsoever.

Then I suggest you could apply this to the easter bunny, santa clause.

It's easy. The reason is that there's no good reason to add the belief. There IS reason to negate the belief.

Like santa clause. We could believe in him as adults, but how foolish would that be?!

We can easily deduce that parents are capable of putting presents under the tree while their children (pretend to :p ) sleep.

Same with reincarnations. We can easily deduce that these people are either whakos, else conartists preying on the gullible. How so?? They've been busted, time and time again....

No true evidence.


You lack critical thinking skills, sir or maddam.

The end result is madness.

Good luck with that.


Here's a good start:

Accusations of Adi Da abusing his power as a spiritual leader attracted international attention in 1985.[17][82] Adi Da and Adidam (then known as Da Free John and The Johannine Daist Communion) were subjects of almost daily coverage in the San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco Examiner, Mill Valley Record, other newspapers, and regional television news and talk shows over several weeks early in the year.[21] The story gained greater attention with a two-part exposé on The Today Show that aired May 9 and 10.[94] In investigative reports and dozens of interviews, both named and anonymous ex-members made numerous specific allegations of Adi Da forcing members to engage in psychologically, sexually, and physically abusive and humiliating behavior, as well as accusing the church of committing tax fraud. Others stated that they never witnessed or were involved in any such activities.[95][96][97][98][99][100] Adi Da and his organization were sued by Beverly O'Mahoney, then wife of the Adidam president, for fraud, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, and assault and battery (among other things); the suit sought $5 million in damages.[9] To a local reporter, Adidam threatened to file its own lawsuit against O'Mahoney, as well as five others who had been named in stories and interviews making allegations of abuse (no suit was ever filed). Adidam charged that allegations against the church were part of a conspiracy to extort large sums of money.[10] The church issued conflicting statements in response to the coverage. A lawyer for the church said that controversial sexual activities had only occurred during the "Garbage and Goddess" period years earlier. Shortly after, an official church spokesman said that "tantra-style encounters" of the kind described in allegations were still occurring, but were mostly confined to an inner circle.[101] This confirmed the stories by former members that such activities had continued up to the time of the lawsuits and interviews, but had been kept hidden.[102][103] [104] The church said that no illegal acts had taken place and that the movement had a right to continue experiments in lifestyles.[105][106] Two lawsuits were filed against Adi Da and the church in California in 1985. The O'Mahoney suit was dismissed the next year.[107] The other lawsuit and several threatened suits in subsequent years were settled with payments and confidentiality agreements,[108] negatively impacting member morale and bleeding the organization financially.

Adi Da, promoter of reincarnation, a huge fraud!!

Giggling Guru a fraud, ++ Deepok Chopra a pathological liar!!

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by unityemissions
I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

How 'bout a metaphor?

"The Unconscious Mind and The Iceberg Metaphor," a useful metaphor to understand is the iceberg and how it can be associated with the unconscious mind, and how the two parts of our mind, the conscious and unconscious mind and their relationship can better work together. When you see a floating iceberg in the ocean, the majority of the iceberg's massive size is below the surface of the water. What you see above the surface of the ocean is only a very small percentage of the whole iceberg's mass. In a way, the mind and the icebergs are alike. What we experience and notice above the surface is the conscious mind and while the unconscious mind which is the most powerful and largest part of the two still remains unseen below the surface. What represents the conscious mind in our metaphor is the small amount of the iceberg above the surface and the unconscious mind which is the huge iceberg mass below the surface. All awareness that is not presently in the conscious mind is held in the unconscious. All our thoughts, feelings and memories that are out of the realm of our conscious awareness is defined as being in our "unconscious." The "subconscious" which it is sometimes called and is also known as the deep mind or the dreaming mind. In a different way than the conscious mind, the unconscious is all powerful and knowledgeable. What keeps our body working and running well is the responsibility of the unconscious mind. The unconscious holds memories and reflections of every single occasion and event we have ever experienced and felt in our lives, the accumulation, origination and source of all our emotions, and it is often thought or viewed as our relationship and connection with the Spirit and with one another. Read more: www.articlesbase.com... Under Creative Commons License: Attribution No Derivatives"

The Unconscious Mind


Take for instance, the claims that people who come back from life have knowledge of things "they couldn't possibly know", LOL! What a lack of imagination and intuition on the interworkings of the psyche!!

Just as in poker, people are constantly giving tells. The more intuitive & in touch with our subconscious we are, the more tells we tend to pick up on.

From personal experience with a wide range of "altered states", you can become more in touch with your subconscious and bring relevant tidbits into conscious awareness.

Once you do this often enough, you're essentially thought of as a genius by most people.

People may enter a similar "altered state" from oxygen deprivation, temporarily dying, or imagining this may soon be the case....

They just don't understand why it is they've had these "revelations"...they serve purpose sometimes, and other times it's just an awesome "magic" thingie that we "stumble" upon.

Originally posted by outerlimits

Originally posted by 11118

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

As for the NDE's, and OBE's, there are tidbits of science that point to probable explanations. I've integrated enough to realize that there's really no good reason to add in mystical/supernatural hogwash. It just doesn't fit. Could I be wrong? Sure, but I see no good reason to change my opinions based on the information gathered thus far. As new information is obtained, the understanding may evolve.

I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

edit on 22-6-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

There is no reason to think that reincarnation doesn't exist either, whatsoever.


Such assumptions of what happens after death is for those drowning in their own ignorance. To think it does or does not exist is speaking blindly. There is no reason to think that either/or isn't possible.

Super natural hogwash is entirely plausible as it cannot be proven otherwise.

edit on 22-6-2011 by 11118 because: (no reason given)

"it cannot be proven " ? And what is your criteria for proven?

Prove to me that reincarnation does not exist, and I'll try to prove that reincarnation is plausible, neither of us will succeed because such an assumption cannot be proved on either side of the argument.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118


There is no reason to think that reincarnation doesn't exist either, whatsoever.

Then I suggest you could apply this to the easter bunny, santa clause.

It's easy. The reason is that there's no good reason to add the belief. There IS reason to negate the belief.

Like santa clause. We could believe in him as adults, but how foolish would that be?!

We can easily deduce that parents are capable of putting presents under the tree while their children (pretend to :p ) sleep.

Same with reincarnations. We can easily deduce that these people are either whakos, else conartists preying on the gullible. How so?? They've been busted, time and time again....

No true evidence.


You lack critical thinking skills, sir or maddam.

The end result is madness.

Good luck with that.


Here's a good start:

Accusations of Adi Da abusing his power as a spiritual leader attracted international attention in 1985.[17][82] Adi Da and Adidam (then known as Da Free John and The Johannine Daist Communion) were subjects of almost daily coverage in the San Francisco Chronicle, San Francisco Examiner, Mill Valley Record, other newspapers, and regional television news and talk shows over several weeks early in the year.[21] The story gained greater attention with a two-part exposé on The Today Show that aired May 9 and 10.[94] In investigative reports and dozens of interviews, both named and anonymous ex-members made numerous specific allegations of Adi Da forcing members to engage in psychologically, sexually, and physically abusive and humiliating behavior, as well as accusing the church of committing tax fraud. Others stated that they never witnessed or were involved in any such activities.[95][96][97][98][99][100] Adi Da and his organization were sued by Beverly O'Mahoney, then wife of the Adidam president, for fraud, intentional infliction of emotional distress, false imprisonment, and assault and battery (among other things); the suit sought $5 million in damages.[9] To a local reporter, Adidam threatened to file its own lawsuit against O'Mahoney, as well as five others who had been named in stories and interviews making allegations of abuse (no suit was ever filed). Adidam charged that allegations against the church were part of a conspiracy to extort large sums of money.[10] The church issued conflicting statements in response to the coverage. A lawyer for the church said that controversial sexual activities had only occurred during the "Garbage and Goddess" period years earlier. Shortly after, an official church spokesman said that "tantra-style encounters" of the kind described in allegations were still occurring, but were mostly confined to an inner circle.[101] This confirmed the stories by former members that such activities had continued up to the time of the lawsuits and interviews, but had been kept hidden.[102][103] [104] The church said that no illegal acts had taken place and that the movement had a right to continue experiments in lifestyles.[105][106] Two lawsuits were filed against Adi Da and the church in California in 1985. The O'Mahoney suit was dismissed the next year.[107] The other lawsuit and several threatened suits in subsequent years were settled with payments and confidentiality agreements,[108] negatively impacting member morale and bleeding the organization financially.

Adi Da, promoter of reincarnation, a huge fraud!!

Giggling Guru a fraud, ++ Deepok Chopra a pathological liar!!

edit on 22-6-2011 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)

You believe that because a con-artist being found hoaxing with the idea of reincarnation means that reincarnation is nonexistent? No, that is terrible logic.

Beliefs of reincarnation has it's origins far beyond any religious belief or dogmatic manifestation to the oldest writing. To say that it is a new age creation to con people is pure ignorance. To say I am without logic is also to speak in the dark as you do not know me and speak with little logic yourself.


You say that I am with many that are mad, and yet you do not even understand the point of life. I do not claim to know either but at least I don't throw away the notion of something greater. Why we are here? Who we are? How we exist? Instead you point a finger at "crazies" who may be, quite ironically, the ones who aren't so crazy after all. Every idea and movement has bad eggs, this doesn't mean that the idea or movement is trickery.

No one cares about what's actually the truth, they just care about feeling their beliefs are the truth. Believe what you want, all things are possible - the moment is of infinite value.

Originally posted by silvadude12
My Atheist friends, you need to open your eyes. The brain is too perfect to be created by blind random chance. Look what it does. Look at the world around you, with eyes that are part of your brain. The sensations you feel, the sounds you hear, the things you see. can you honestly look around you and tell me that that "chunk of meat" in your head was created randomly? That we are just another part of the world that was accidentally created? I don't think you can. Look into yourself. You have been given a gift. it's a little something called Consciousness. Use it.

You need to find God, my friends.
"There's no such thing as an Atheist in a foxhole."

well said! Gonna write this down on a piece of paper and hang it on my wall and read it every morning i get up!

Originally posted by unityemissions
Take for instance, the claims that people who come back from life have knowledge of things "they couldn't possibly know", LOL! What a lack of imagination and intuition on the interworkings of the psyche!!

Just as in poker, people are constantly giving tells. The more intuitive & in touch with our subconscious we are, the more tells we tend to pick up on.

From personal experience with a wide range of "altered states", you can become more in touch with your subconscious and bring relevant tidbits into conscious awareness.

Once you do this often enough, you're essentially thought of as a genius by most people.

People may enter a similar "altered state" from oxygen deprivation, temporarily dying, or imagining this may soon be the case....

They just don't understand why it is they've had these "revelations"...they serve purpose sometimes, and other times it's just an awesome "magic" thingie that we "stumble" upon.

Come to think of it, I guess I wasn't sure what exactly I was asking you to make a metaphor for, but your explanation is fairly close to my understanding of the subconscious at any rate (I tend to call it the unconscious but I think we're referring to the same thing).

Here's what I'm trying to understand:

Your explanation of an NDE, then, is that in the altered state brought about by having a brain that no longer functions, you get really in touch with the unconscious. So even when the brain shuts off, there is a continuity of experience. You also seem to hint (assuming you are in agreement with your iceberg quote) that there's a, say, "layer" of this unconscious that connects us all together. And yet you are adamant in this thread that there is nothing whatsoever in human experience that even hints at the notion that experience continues after death in any way, shape, or form.

Presumably this means whatever minimal brain activity which remains during an NDE accounts entirely for the experience of the unconscious, and that this activity ceases when the brain is truly and utterly destroyed. Do you know this for sure? If not, from where comes the certainty which you express?

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

Logic itself is the reason.

When you understand the fundamental nature of consciousness.

You will see "there is NO good reason to think that" it is destroyed when the physical vehicle is.

I just read the following article on NDEs and thought it was pretty good.

The Mystical Impact of Near-Death Experiences

It also jived up with many others I have read that pretty much point out how conventional explanations do not quite explain all the observations of the NDE experience:

One plausible physiological model attributes them to decreased oxygen (hypoxia) or to a complete lack of oxygen (anoxia), which appears to be the final common pathway to death. However, hypoxia or anoxia generally produce idiosyncratic, frightening hallucinations and lead to agitation and belligerence, quite unlike the peaceful near-death experience. Studies of persons near death have also shown that those who have NDEs do not have lower oxygen levels than those who do not have them.Another frequently cited physiological model attributes NDEs to the medications given to dying persons.Although some drugs may on occasion induce experiences that bear superficial similarities to a near-death experience, comparative studies show that patients who receive medications in fact report fewer NDEs than do those who receive no medication.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

Logic itself is the reason.

When you understand the fundamental nature of consciousness.

You will see "there is NO good reason to think that" it is destroyed when the physical vehicle is.

A very perceptive post.


Rationality and logical reasoning/measurements cannot reason/measure the irrational and immeasurable e.g. Metaphysics and so on.

reply to post by 11118


Logic can be applied to abstract concepts.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by 11118

They are not "pretty much explainable" that's a misunderstanding on your part.

I'm sure you understand that such explanations pale in insignificance to the amount of opposing information on either side of the argument. Which makes NDEs, OBEs, and reincarnation plausible until further notice.

You're using circular logic.

There is NO good reason to think that reincarnations exist, WHATSOEVER!!!

Logic itself is the reason.

Again, circular psuedo logic. Logic is the application of reason. So....the application of reason is reason enough?! ....ooookay!!

When you understand the fundamental nature of consciousness.

You obviously don't.

You will see "there is NO good reason to think that" it is destroyed when the physical vehicle is.

There's no point in trying to reason with madmen.

You kiddos have fun with it!!

I'm out...

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by NewlyAwakened

Originally posted by unityemissions
I have no need to prove my intuitive/logical understandings of this. Not really sure I could verbalise it even if I tried. Some things are a bit too far ahead to bring outside of the mind...

How 'bout a metaphor?

"The Unconscious Mind and The Iceberg Metaphor," a useful metaphor to understand is the iceberg and how it can be associated with the unconscious mind, and how the two parts of our mind, the conscious and unconscious mind and their relationship can better work together. When you see a floating iceberg in the ocean, the majority of the iceberg's massive size is below the surface of the water. What you see above the surface of the ocean is only a very small percentage of the whole iceberg's mass. In a way, the mind and the icebergs are alike. What we experience and notice above the surface is the conscious mind and while the unconscious mind which is the most powerful and largest part of the two still remains unseen below the surface. What represents the conscious mind in our metaphor is the small amount of the iceberg above the surface and the unconscious mind which is the huge iceberg mass below the surface. All awareness that is not presently in the conscious mind is held in the unconscious. All our thoughts, feelings and memories that are out of the realm of our conscious awareness is defined as being in our "unconscious." The "subconscious" which it is sometimes called and is also known as the deep mind or the dreaming mind. In a different way than the conscious mind, the unconscious is all powerful and knowledgeable. What keeps our body working and running well is the responsibility of the unconscious mind. The unconscious holds memories and reflections of every single occasion and event we have ever experienced and felt in our lives, the accumulation, origination and source of all our emotions, and it is often thought or viewed as our relationship and connection with the Spirit and with one another. Read more: www.articlesbase.com... Under Creative Commons License: Attribution No Derivatives"

The Unconscious Mind


Take for instance, the claims that people who come back from life have knowledge of things "they couldn't possibly know", LOL! What a lack of imagination and intuition on the interworkings of the psyche!!

Just as in poker, people are constantly giving tells. The more intuitive & in touch with our subconscious we are, the more tells we tend to pick up on.

From personal experience with a wide range of "altered states", you can become more in touch with your subconscious and bring relevant tidbits into conscious awareness.

Once you do this often enough, you're essentially thought of as a genius by most people.

People may enter a similar "altered state" from oxygen deprivation, temporarily dying, or imagining this may soon be the case....

They just don't understand why it is they've had these "revelations"...they serve purpose sometimes, and other times it's just an awesome "magic" thingie that we "stumble" upon.

HAHAH ! I love it : "Once you do this often enough, you're essentially thought of as a genius by most people."

Or Insane, mostly insane I suspect !

TO me most of the criticisms raised against such happenings are old and a little worn now. Nevertheless, the fact remains change or significant change is a very difficult thing to achieve within almost any individual. So this type of resistance is to be, shall we say expected, Read “truth in the light” very good book and a good start into this whole area. It’s easy to become so entrenched within our own concepts of truth and reality we become blind to all except that which reinforces them. Although we the believers appear to have a distinct advantage in this situation, as we once were like those skeptics, Sad to say you do not. The truth is: consciousness, is not so easily chained down and understood, it’s the smoke screen, the smell in air. Try to scoop up with both your hands as much water as you can, as it runs through your fingers and disappears so it does when attempting to contain the most elusive aspect of being alive, the consciousness. It exists or we would not be doing any of this! But what is it? It’s YOU, it’s ME, it’s life and all that encompasses that which we call life.

Originally posted by steve95988

Originally posted by silvadude12
My Atheist friends, you need to open your eyes. The brain is too perfect to be created by blind random chance. Look what it does. Look at the world around you, with eyes that are part of your brain. The sensations you feel, the sounds you hear, the things you see. can you honestly look around you and tell me that that "chunk of meat" in your head was created randomly? That we are just another part of the world that was accidentally created? I don't think you can. Look into yourself. You have been given a gift. it's a little something called Consciousness. Use it.

You need to find God, my friends.
"There's no such thing as an Atheist in a foxhole."

well said! Gonna write this down on a piece of paper and hang it on my wall and read it every morning i get up!

You are so right, you have no idea how right you are. Well done there.... Some are just not ready for such truth.