I was born in America but English was not my first Language... English was forced upon me

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


So it all comes down to where to draw the line. And the line has been drawn, for better or worse, there is the line.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ElectricUniverse

 

Resorting to derogatory name calling? I have enjoyed your posts in the past, but I guess people's personal agendas always come out in the end.

edit on 19-6-2011 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

First of all, that wasn't adressed to you, but to those gringos who were making derogatory comments to hispanics for daring to speak Spanish in the U.S.

Second of all, you are right, I shouldn't go down to their level but when I see things like this happening it boils my blood and I respond in kind.

Then go and respond in kind to them. Nobody here has said "wetback", or "jungle bunny", or "apple" have they? Your own racism is showing through. Keep that crap to yourself.

As to the OP, I don't apologize for the way the American Indians were treated by Europeans. The Spanish perfected their special brand of genocide, torture, and slavery 100 years before Drake's voyage to the New World. Both groups bought a good portion of their slaves from other Indians. Why go out and chase them down when you've already got people willing to sell them to you? This is also how most black slaves were gained: by being bought from other African tribes that caught them.

Unfortunately, it's difficult at best to try to communicate in 100 different dialects of American Indian, much less in 1000 different world languages. The American Revolution was fought by England, Colonials, France, the Dutch, and American Indians. The Colonials won, and they spoke English. It was soon found that trying to conduct business in more than one language absolutely would not work out. So they picked the one that was spoken the most.

You have a perception of being treated badly, and as an old adage goes, "Perception is reality." I am sympathetic that you feel the way you do. But don't hold the actions of a few against the whole. The problem here is that a broken system was attempting to teach you in the the only language they knew. It was not their fault that they couldn't speak your language, just as it wasn't your fault you couldn't speak theirs.

/TOA

You cry about English being forced upon you but you say nothing about Spanish being forced upon you why? If you want to deal with the Europeans you need to be able to speak their language even your ancestors knew that.

I don't see the problem here, you got 'forced' to learn a language you say, well all I see from that is a benefit, how did they exactly stop you from speaking your own language? They can't, you can do as you please and learning that language is actually benefiting you right now. Just saying.

to the ones that said if another language became the worlds 'second' language, well guess what we would learn it in some way or another. Infact I would love if someone was to try and force langues down my neck. I love learning new languages and as such I'm currently learning Polish and Japanese once I've been taught those, I'll glady try another.

Point at hand, so what that they forced English onto you, it's working to your benefit. Yes, I know your ancestors had their land taken from them and no, I don't agree with it but what can be done about that now? Nothing, sadly.

P.s, hardly beat out of you, you just let it get beat out of you. Like you said, there are still places where they speak native american etc, so why not go there if you have such a giant problem?

Sorry if I offended you,
David.

Originally posted by CobraCommander
Spanish is the language of invaders that were mere brutal and more colonial than any English speakers. Why should we embrace Spanish? It is no native tongue.

edit on 19-6-2011 by CobraCommander because: (no reason given)

Really? last I checked it was English speaking people who nearly, and singlehandedly brought the Native Americans to extinction...

I don't negate the fact that the Spanish, and other Europeans were brutal against the natives.

As to why should Spanish be allowed to exist in the U.S.?... Because it is the language of people who have been living in the U.S. since before it was made a nation, and hispanics, just like Irish, just like German, Swedes, and other people from other nations have been living in the U.S. since it was made a new nation, and some even from before the U.S. was a nation.

I am not saying that ONLY Spanish should be allowed... People have the right to speak in ANY language they want to in the U.S.

And btw, perhaps for some reason you didn't understand what I wrote, but what I wrote is that we should have the most used NATIVE AMERICAN LANGUAGE in the U.S. become the national language.

I never said ANYWHERE that Spanish should be made the national language...

Just think if the Spanish had taken on the languages of the Moors. Then Mexicans would be speaking Arabic! Or possibly Berber dialects.

Originally posted by The Old American

Then go and respond in kind to them. Nobody here has said "wetback", or "jungle bunny", or "apple" have they? Your own racism is showing through. Keep that crap to yourself.

I was talking about those members who did that, I didn't lump every "gringo" into one group like the gringo members in that thread lumped every hispanic as being lazy, and calling us other names such as "bastards" for not speaking English like a gringo...

So am I racist for not liking those gringos who kept, and keep deriding, belittling, and insulting hispanics for either not speaking English, or for not speaking English like those gringos do?...

Originally posted by The Old American

Unfortunately, it's difficult at best to try to communicate in 100 different dialects of American Indian, much less in 1000 different world languages. The American Revolution was fought by England, Colonials, France, the Dutch, and American Indians. The Colonials won, and they spoke English. It was soon found that trying to conduct business in more than one language absolutely would not work out. So they picked the one that was spoken the most.

Guess what? the Continental Congress, and in general the Founding Fathers, some had different opinions, for the most part agreed that making English the national language was against individual liberties, and it wasn't proper for the government to force people to learn one language... But we all know that the government doesn't care about the good intentions the Founding Fathers had, and they (government) clean their behinds every day with the U.S. Constitution.

Originally posted by The Old American
You have a perception of being treated badly, and as an old adage goes, "Perception is reality." I am sympathetic that you feel the way you do. But don't hold the actions of a few against the whole. The problem here is that a broken system was attempting to teach you in the the only language they knew. It was not their fault that they couldn't speak your language, just as it wasn't your fault you couldn't speak theirs.

/TOA

Wow...so now it is only perception if you are treated badly?... So people only perceive they are being treated badly?... really?...

He was forced to learn English, he wasn't given a choice, and yes it is the fault of those people/teachers who were forcing him, and others to learn English, and it wasn't just that he and others were forced to learn English, but that their native languages were purposely driven into extinction.

The government didn't succeed in eradicating all the Native American languages simply because some of the Native Americans were able to keep their languages alive for decades but only in hiding.

Now a new group of Americans want to eradicate every other language from U.S. soil.

English has been made a common language. So it is a good idea to learn it. Me personally, I think if there is a common language in a country you should take the time to learn it. Down here in california people give me an odd look that I took french instead of spanish (yet another requirement by the board of education to learn one language other then your own) Cause I'd much rather speak with canadians and french tourists then illegal immigrants. If I went to work in germany, I'd expect that I'd have to learn german. Learn the common language is the only think we can ask.
Now if only the world would agree on a universal language like what esperanto was supposed to be.

As for OP, sorry you had it tough in school in terms of idiotical people teaching you.

Anyone been to Yellowstone? There are the famous paint pots where the heat bubbles just below the surface. The giant Caldera is underneath.

This stuff reminds me of those paint pots.

I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed your story.. It's good to see that younger generations are interested in preserving native tongues of north American tribes. In Latin American countries...the indoctrination system was not much different, with the exception that Spanish was forced on indigenous populations. There are still many populations in Latin America that speak their native tongues, however.
It's a shame that North American Natives nearly had their entire culture and language eradicated under the premise of Manifest Destiny.
I happen to really like being bilingual and am working on learning a third language. I believe some monolinguals have resentment for those of us who are able to speak more than one language. It's also quite ridiculous that they would feel 'offended' or "superior" by someone having an accent when they speak English.
My Terran father has a degree in mechanical engineering, and despite his reputation in the field here...He undoubtedly still gets those "dirty looks" by the usual bigots that think they know better because of his accent.
It's pathetic that certain...so called "patriotic" Americans use language as a mask for their bigotry and xenophobic sentiment.
But they're on the losing side..and that gives me satisfaction.

reply to post by Laokin


Well in your case, you didn't use proper english either, you used slang. Burn means to heat up to the point of damage or to set fire to. You could have simply said you wouldn't perform there anymore.


burn
1    [burn] Show IPA verb, burned or burnt, burn·ing, noun

–verb (used without object)
1.
to undergo rapid combustion or consume fuel in such a way as to give off heat, gases, and, usually, light; be on fire: The fire burned in the grate.

2.
(of a fireplace, furnace, etc.) to contain a fire.

3.
to feel heat or a physiologically similar sensation; feel pain from or as if from a fire: The wound burned and throbbed.

Originally posted by buster2010
You cry about English being forced upon you but you say nothing about Spanish being forced upon you why? If you want to deal with the Europeans you need to be able to speak their language even your ancestors knew that.

Yes, but is the opposite not true either? Why did the Europeans not bother to learn the language of the native americans, as a sign of respect. After all, they (native americans) were there first. And when the settlers came, they forced the original inhabitants of America to learn a language they did not want to learn.

It is tit for tat mate.

vvv

Daddybare, somehow or other I can't say that your story is pitiful, or that I feel sorry for you. You learned a second language. Boo hoo.

Sometimes others DO know what's best, because when push comes to shove, and now that you are 50 years old, aren't you very glad that you DID learn English?

reply to post by havok


Had to laugh out loud at;

I honestly feel that 'Americans' stole this land from your ancestors.

There is no question we stole this land. Our (my) predecessors stole, lied, murdered, warred, raped, and cheated to take this country.

This isn't a secret is it?

reply to post by Kali74


None of you use the proper Queens English any way.

You wouldn't adam and eve the amount of times I'll be out with one of my old china plates and some septic will come up to me asking for Anneka Rice cos they are all Kate Mossed.
Then I tell them the way and they look all sixes and sevens at me

I think Spanish would soon be a second official language in America. In few states at the beginning but this is inevitable. English would remain main language common to all states but Spanish would become official so citizens could do official matters in this language. In fact America is one of the biggest if not the biggest country in the world with only on official language what have to be not comfortable with so big population. Even in Spain where they use their own language which is nearly so popular in the world as English they have major group of Catalan people and no one would force them to speak proper English.

In India for example there are 16 official language with English as main to all country. In China there are 3 official languages. It's not a big deal. In USA probably over 50 million people use Spanish language. This is not a small number which government could ignore.

On a more serious note though, I find it ironic that most people on ATS are paranoid of globalization yet want everyone to speak english.

We do not give enough credit to human intelligence or our capacity to learn. We are fully capable of speaking several languages fluently. In a nation (US) of immigrants is it really just hippie idealism to think we should at least all be able to speak spanish in addition to english?

Quite honestly, the history of how English came to be a common or main language is irrelevant. You have to look at the situation NOW. Where I used to live in Uganda, even the most uneducated of people could converse in English. Which was important as it gave a common means of communication where there were a load of different languages/dialects. It shouldn't stop you preserving 'your own' language. So no sympathy from me.

reply to post by DaddyBare


You have written that brilliantly, the red line shines when communication becomes clearer.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Wow...so now it is only perception if you are treated badly?... So people only perceive they are being treated badly?... really?...

He was forced to learn English, he wasn't given a choice, and yes it is the fault of those people/teachers who were forcing him, and others to learn English, and it wasn't just that he and others were forced to learn English, but that their native languages were purposely driven into extinction.

The government didn't succeed in eradicating all the Native American languages simply because some of the Native Americans were able to keep their languages alive for decades but only in hiding.

Now a new group of Americans want to eradicate every other language from U.S. soil.

Yes, it is perception. I was "forced" to learn Spanish in my Texas 4th grade school, even though I had no prior exposure to the language, except hearing it spoken by some people in public in passing. Yet taking a Spanish language class was required. But you don't see me making a thread about how I was abused and had something forced upon me. But then again, I wasn't really "treated badly" was I?

"Treated badly" is being singled out by a group of Hispanic kids and getting the # kicked out of you in 5th grade for being a "gringo". At least I guess that's why they did it, because that's the only word that was used...they said it over and over as they stomped on me. But this is the first time I've ever mentioned it on ATS, and the only time I ever will. It happened, I got over it. But I guess some people can't get over themselves. They have to hold on to hatred and discrimination like a security blanket. Maybe someone will feel sorry for them and try to make the hurt go away. Well, guess what? It's time to put on your big boy pants and get to growing up.

You talk about "gringos" being divisive and racist? You can take your "gringo" and shove it up your [snip].

/TOA