Claims of Russian Moon Bases

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
The little trinkets that are given to us is about 50 years behind. This should be a well know fact!

Is that really a fact? If we don't know those secret trinkets, how can we know that they are 50 years (and how do we measure 50 years in development? Does that mean that we are using cell phones from the 60s?) ahead of what we use?

There was a very real threat between the US and other countries, especially Russia.

No, not Russia, the Soviet Union.

No photo, No document, NO person, can truly give facts, only speculation. Whether it be Beter, or even me, or you.

A photo or a document are a fact. If they represent the truth or not is a different matter, but they are facts.

Keep an open mind.

I would only add to that, "always".

Originally posted by newcovenant
We can't see secreted doors carved out of mountains on Earth that we know are there and part of military DUMB programs so how can we see a door covered with sand on the moon which might be all that appears of a base if there were one?

We can't, but as we have photos of those areas, why not look at them?

Originally posted by newcovenant
Maybe the moon has visitors who are very transient and they stick a piece of gum on the google earth cameras?

Google doesn't have any cameras taking photos of the Moon or Mars, the photos they have are publicly available.

In fact, there are many publicly available photos that Google doesn't use, it looks like they getting slower and slower at updating their photos database.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
I don't think that is good enough.

No, but I think nothing will ever be good enough, we will always have that (natural) doubt of someone that wasn't there.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by newcovenant
Maybe the moon has visitors who are very transient and they stick a piece of gum on the google earth cameras?

Google doesn't have any cameras taking photos of the Moon or Mars, the photos they have are publicly available.

In fact, there are many publicly available photos that Google doesn't use, it looks like they getting slower and slower at updating their photos database.

That was sort of a little joke. Gum on the security camera, like the crooks do to security cameras in the movies? If they don't have cameras on the moon or Mars how did they get the pictures?

Maybe you are saying they don't have LIVE cameras or cameras there now?
Actually I don't know what you are saying.

reply to post by newcovenant


Google doesn't have any cameras, they use the same images that are available to everyone.

If you have the knowledge you can make your own "Google Moon" or "Google Mars". You even have an Open Source program (NASA's World Wind) that you can use as a base for it.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
When someone makes claims that are so far beyond 'extraordinary' that they've gone into the realm of bad fiction, only a 'moron' would take them seriously. To continue to take Beter's words on faith is to accept that in the 70s, the world was run by robot presidents, that all UFOs are Bolshevik particle-beam ships and that it's easier to shoot particle beams from 250 000 miles away rather than from 60 000 ft above the Earth!?

I agree. If anyone takes claims, by Beter or anyone else at face value they probably are a moron. I wasn't - I was looking into a claim. To be fair though, if you take a look at my OP, I did make it plain that I hadn't read Beter - so I could not have known what else he was claiming.

Originally posted by Pimander FIRST TWO SENTENCES OF OP
I was just alerted to the existence of a conspiracy "theorist", called Peter Beter, by this OP by NoRegretsEver.. I can't say i have read his work but on one site he is claiming there are/were at least 10 Russian bases on the moon.

Had I known he was claiming those things I wouldn't be typing this now. I wasn't following that thread. Having taken another look, I see what you mean.... Remarkable

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
The little trinkets that are given to us is about 50 years behind. This should be a well know fact!

Is that really a fact? If we don't know those secret trinkets, how can we know that they are 50 years (and how do we measure 50 years in development? Does that mean that we are using cell phones from the 60s?) ahead of what we use?

There was a very real threat between the US and other countries, especially Russia.

No, not Russia, the Soviet Union.

No photo, No document, NO person, can truly give facts, only speculation. Whether it be Beter, or even me, or you.

A photo or a document are a fact. If they represent the truth or not is a different matter, but they are facts.

Keep an open mind.

I would only add to that, "always".

The little trinkets that are given to us is about 50 years behind. This should be a well know fact!

Is that really a fact? If we don't know those secret trinkets, how can we know that they are 50 years (and how do we measure 50 years in development? Does that mean that we are using cell phones from the 60s?) ahead of what we use?

Are you serious? Just in case your not, I meant that the tech that "they" have and what we have they are about 50 years in advance.
For example the Sequoia.

Armonk, NY - 03 Feb 2009: The Department of Energy’s National Nuclear Security Administration has selected Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory as the development site for two new supercomputers--Sequoia and Dawn—and IBM as the computer’s designer and builder. These systems will allow for smarter simulation and negate the need for real-world weapon testing.

Under terms of the contract, Sequoia will be based on future IBM BlueGene technology, exceed 20 petaflops (quadrillion floating operations per second) and will be delivered in 2011 with operational deployment in 2012. Dawn, an initial delivery system to lay the applications foundation for multi-petaflop computing, will be based on BlueGene/P technology, reach speeds of 500 teraflops (trillion floating operations per second) and is scheduled for operational deployment in early 2009.

Sequoia will represent a significant leap forward in compute power. With top speeds of 20 petflops Sequoia will be approximately 15 times faster than today’s most powerful supercomputer and offers more processing power than the entire list of Top500 supercomputers running today.
Sequoia will primarily be used to ensure the safety and reliability of the nation’s nuclear weapons stockpile. It will also be used for research into astronomy, energy, human genome science and climate change.

www-03.ibm.com...

I dont think Steve Job' great, great, great, grand kids will be offering that. Imagine when we can have that what they will have.

No photo, No document, NO person, can truly give facts, only speculation. Whether it be Beter, or even me, or you.

A photo or a document are a fact. If they represent the truth or not is a different matter, but they are facts.

Who decides they are facts? We have a UFO forum where posters state they are facts, yet people who clearly done see the evidence deny it. Documents can be made by anyone (cooltext.com...) with this link and a Kinko's account I can make almost any "valid" document.
If I make it... does that not make it fact? Or does you opinion? And what happens if some disagrees?

Keep an open mind.

I would only add to that, "always".

I hope so

Peace, NRE.

Originally posted by ArMaP
A photo or a document are a fact. If they represent the truth or not is a different matter, but they are facts.

Sorry ArMap, not at all.

Photographs can be faked and so can documents, especially by intelligence who have the stationary. They may exist but they aren't facts surely?

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
Are you serious? Just in case your not, I meant that the tech that "they" have and what we have they are about 50 years in advance.
For example the Sequoia.

That technology is not 50 years in advance of what we use in our homes, it's just a slight evolution of what we have in our homes, done in large scale.

Sequoia will be of Blue Gene/Q design, building off previous Blue Gene designs. It will consist of 98,304 compute nodes comprising 1.6 million processor cores and 1.6 PB memory in 96 racks covering an area of about 3,000 square feet (280 m2). The processors are to be 16- or 8-core Power Architecture processors built on a 45 nm fabrication process.

Source

Documents can be made by anyone (cooltext.com...) with this link and a Kinko's account I can make almost any "valid" document.
If I make it... does that not make it fact?

Yes, even if it's fake, as it exists and can be see and/or read by other people, it's a fact.

What someone writes on ATS is also a fact (the written text), but it doesn't mean that the text represents a true event, for example.

If I fake a photo and post it on ATS (as I once did, to ask if anyone could see what was faked), that faked photo exists, and you can make copies of it, because it's existence is a fact, so the photo is also a fact.

reply to post by Pimander


See above.

The document is always a fact, although it may not represent a fact.

A piece of paper is different from what is written on it, and a faked document may be used latter as a proof that there was someone faking it.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
The ISS is out there as a cutting edge technology.

Oh wow... really?

I give up

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by Pimander

 

See above.

The document is always a fact, although it may not represent a fact.

A piece of paper is different from what is written on it, and a faked document may be used latter as a proof that there was someone faking it.

The only thing a document can prove is that its paper (possibly) and that its there, nothing else, what does that have to do with the OP?

So what your saying is, I have a piece of paper... FACT... Whats on it?... LIES.... And if someone really wanted to get technical about a document, it can also NOT be there.

I have a document... NO you dont, it means nothing to me.

You are trying to add value to something that takes more then a piece of paper to have. You can have 1,000 documents and if not one person believes or puts value on it, it doesn't exist, and has no meaning, except that you wasted paper.

Peace, NRE.

That technology is not 50 years in advance of what we use in our homes, it's just a slight evolution of what we have in our homes, done in large scale.

Sequoia will be of Blue Gene/Q design, building off previous Blue Gene designs. It will consist of 98,304 compute nodes comprising 1.6 million processor cores and 1.6 PB memory in 96 racks covering an area of about 3,000 square feet (280 m2). The processors are to be 16- or 8-core Power Architecture processors built on a 45 nm fabrication process.

Then either you live on a satellite, or close to the moon and are not telling, there are people out there that can only get dial up, WHO'S home are you talking about?

Originally posted by ArMaP
If I fake a photo and post it on ATS (as I once did, to ask if anyone could see what was faked), that faked photo exists, and you can make copies of it, because it's existence is a fact, so the photo is also a fact.

ArMaP posted a faked photo?

Truth... we all claim to be seeking it here...but

Of what use is finding the Truth... if no one will believe you? No matter what evidence is presented, it will not be believed.

Here is a Truth... the Sun is Yellow...

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
So what your saying is, I have a piece of paper... FACT...

Yes.

Whats on it?... LIES....

It may be, it may not be, but the piece of paper still exists, with or without it's content being true or not. The Lord of the Rings, for example, is a fact, it exists, but the story is not (as far as I know).

And if someone really wanted to get technical about a document, it can also NOT be there.

That I don't understand.

You can have 1,000 documents and if not one person believes or puts value on it, it doesn't exist, and has no meaning, except that you wasted paper.

No, the 1000 documents still exist, obviously, it has nothing to do with people believing in them or not.

Then either you live on a satellite, or close to the moon and are not telling, there are people out there that can only get dial up, WHO'S home are you talking about?

Although I do not have any of those, anyone that owns a PlayStation 3, a Xbox 360 or a Wii has in his/her home a processor that uses the same technology (Power Architecture) used by IBM to build Sequoia.

Originally posted by zorgon

Of what use is finding the Truth... if no one will believe you?

It is good for investing.

If you know which company is getting which 'black' special access contracts, you know which companies are going to be around for a while and whether they're worth investing in.

If some start-up lands a black project and you get in then theystart to expand, you're in on the ground floor. And the government is going to keep that company in the black, which helps reduce risk of loss to you.

Cha-ching. Good old Military Industrial Complex - it's a growth area.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Cha-ching. Good old Military Industrial Complex - it's a growth area.

It sure is... wish I had spare cash to invest Maybe I should cash in my meteorites

reply to post by zorgon
The was an emoticon too far. You've hurt my feelings and insulted the ISS crew.

Shame on you.

Originally posted by zorgon
Maybe I should cash in my meteorites

Do it now before it's too late.

You want to get those sold while people are still able to buy them. The way things are going, alot of people are going to have alot less money to spend on things like that.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
You've hurt my feelings and insulted the ISS crew.
Shame on you.

Sorry about your feelings but you need to face reality. As to the ISS crew, no worries... who do you think I get cool photos like this from?



And LEGO is pretty sure about bases on Mars... they made a cool real working robot toy for Mars Colony



You really need to get with the program... but its all the Russians that I get the info from. NASA is too stuck up. As Robert Bigelow says "NASA = No Access to Space for Americans"

"The Lego Company, being active in the non space area, in co-operation with Intospace, a space industry service provider, developed a space education project aimed at developing, launching and operating a Lego Robot on the Space Station. This series is a highly sophisticated assembly set with programmable microchips and advanced reaction systems such as light-, touch or rotational sensors. The space environment of the ISS was perceived as the right scenario for this hi-tech project."

Source - Smithsonian 2002
adsabs.harvard.edu...

PEGASUS NOTE: This Lego Robot does not sound like a toy! In fact the Smithsonian Report above states - "Therefore a public competition was announced to create attention offering interested people to participate in developing a robot that will be in the condition to support the ISS crew during their daily routine work."