Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison.

Originally posted by factbandit
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

This post is absolute BS!!!! Your post does not mention what State this gentleman was in, however, it would be great to know. Let me start by saying this individual should have sought the mental health services as instructed by the court regardless of who this establishment may have treated in the past. He needed it! He burned himself to death over $2,000 to $3,000, and left his children not only fatherless, but now to be taken care of by the American tax payers via his social security benefits.

On each point, you betray not having read the link. Yet you think you have something to say?

The system may not be perfect, but fathers have a responsibility to monetarily take care of their children, as well as provide insurance for their healthcare. As an attorney, I am certain that had this individual shown the Court that in ten years of paying this is all he owed (which I believe to be untrue in light of the fact it is stated that the attorney for the wife had summoned toddlers).

An attorney, are you? Really? How does a homeless man who is paying child support, also purchase your services? You don't care.

All Mr. Ball needed to do was show up for Court, tell the Judge that he was looking for work, at the very worse the Judge would have given him a date by which to have a job and begin payments (in a new amount to make up for the arrearage), or at the very worse he would have gotten 30 days in jail, to teach him a lesson, should it appear to the Court that Mr. Ball was not attempting to make any payments. Judges are human beings too and if the case was as Mr. Thomas Ball has indicated - death would never have been an option in the first place!

Now I know you are not an attorney-- or that you are an attorney who specializes in doing this to people-- not helping them. .It does not work that way.

This gentleman, Thomas Ball, was mentally ill, needed counseling which he was directed to receive and he himself choose not to get it. Instead he thought he would leave his children for the rest of us to take care of and make his wife look bad, or feel bad.

Yes, having your children taken from you and then having your paycheck garnished leaving you with $360.00 a month on which to live while you sleep in a car that no longer runs tends to cause depression-- which is a mental illness. What? Did you think "talk therapy" would make it all go away-- make it somehow alright? He's broken hearted and has no future. Do you care? Any empathy at all inside of you?

Fortunately, Thomas Ball has done this to himself, and now his children can go on living safely. This could have turned out much worse, and he could have killed the children too! Thank God he didn't do that! I feel sure that his children and ex-wife will have no feelings of guilt, as they personally know this man, their father and ex-husband, and know the extent of the mental issues he was troubled with!

You really do do this to people, don't you? You justify your inhumane treatment of innocents for which you then receive monetary reward. He is in despair and you want to say, "Thank God, he might have hurt the children!"

May the good Lord keep his ex-wife safe, as well as the children, but to blame this on the system is completely wrong! AND I'd bet you are a man who owes child support - or you would view this as everyone else does, and not the way you have presented it!

And I bet you are a woman with an agenda, or else you would behave as a human.

Once again another father only thinking of himself and not his children! SHAMEFUL - in both cases - Mr. Ball's and that of this poster!

Once again, another "COLLABORATOR" has weighed in.

[

Originally posted by daggyz
While I feel sorry for this whole situation, we actually have a guy here who kills himself over $3000?

His kids lose a dad, a mum loses a son.

There are people who lose 100x more than this and don't kill themselves. In what is 'in' a man, his 'character', not his external circumstances that define the man. I don't mean this guy was a bad man but his character is flawed. If any of you think this is not correct it goes to show how much your character, morality, ethics and conscience have been allowed to be changed by what you are taught is now socially acceptable. Suicide is a cop out.

So I have to ask, although he's desperate, what sort of a man allows that to kill him? I know people with no legs and they don't go throwing themselves off a cliff! I know unemployed people who are depressed. I know people who owe many times what this guy does and don't blame anybody for it, or beat themselves up too much about it.

From the News....The employer didn't kill all those people at work, the armed ex employee did. Poverty didn't kill the homeowner, the person who broke into his house did!

The system didn't flick the lighter, this man himself did.

There are people who lose 100x more than this and don't kill themselves

it really depends on how much depression a person can take, how much they loved their children and how tough they are in life as a result of their upbringing and their past. Maybe even some medical situations such as Bi-Polar mental instability or other diseases of the brain can make things worse. These women who are doing this should definately be held accountable for what they have done. This is nothing less than an insidious assault such as bullying gays or like bullying someone online and them commiting suicide to escape the onslaught. This only prooves that the government is behind this because men are not afraid of women, of course, but for a woman to be able to hav this kind of power over a man...to the point of suicide because of him having to sacrifice his whole life and existence and children and all pecuniary influxes. A woman alone cannot do this, it is the American government assaulting the average men in the country vicariously through their wives (by rewarding them with his earnings and removing his loved ones from him) that proves that the American government is purposely assaulting the men to their detriment and deaths, by suicide. It is merely an escape from an inevitable, lifelong depression from which they are trying to escape. Their wives are immediately to blame for this. they may be given and tempted with everything that a man owns and may have great opperssive power over the ex-husband via the graces and favoritism of the government........but they don't HAVE TO...and are not FORCED to do what they do out of control issues and an abuse of power , that the government has bestowed upon the ex-wives. It is their choice to divorce...to rob...to assault the ex-husband (by using government resources and court issued tyranny) and to deny them full "unmonitored" time with their own children and not to use their children as just another tool of oppression against the men. These women are simply murderers. They know the potential outcome and they still do what they do.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
He was a coward who just abandoned his kids by taking his own life....

That is one of the reasons why the stress becomes so extreme. If you love your kids, you will do anything for them. If it is not possible to do it, you're a bad parent, one way or another.

That is not a hero...

Yes, a hero is generally someone you takes the lives of others (in approved circumstances).

Originally posted by factbandit
reply to post by Realtruth

 

I am very sorry about the loss of the "brother!" I would like to ask if the reason he died had anything to do with the illness he had prior to going to jail. The letter states that they came to hospital to get the brother, who panicked and checked himself out AMA. This is BS! If the sheriff or his deputy comes to get you, hospital or not - you don't get a chance to check yourself out AMA. They either take you immediately, or the doctor says you MUST stay. If the doctor said he MUST stay and he left anyway knowing he was ill - that was his own fault. Further to leave the hospital before you are well to show up for Court when you don't have to is nuts. Additionally, there are nurses and doctors in every jail in America, did they not notice he was ill after just leaving a hospital! These are jails we are taking about here folks - not prisons! They do not put folks in prison for child support!



I am personally sick and tired of hearing all of these BS, hearsay, stories that are total fabrications with regard to the poor men who don't want to support their own children. SHAME ON THEM!

You are wrong.People are being imprisoned daily for child-support.

Originally posted by Phenomium

Originally posted by daggyz
While I feel sorry for this whole situation, we actually have a guy here who kills himself over $3000?

His kids lose a dad, a mum loses a son.

There are people who lose 100x more than this and don't kill themselves. In what is 'in' a man, his 'character', not his external circumstances that define the man. I don't mean this guy was a bad man but his character is flawed. If any of you think this is not correct it goes to show how much your character, morality, ethics and conscience have been allowed to be changed by what you are taught is now socially acceptable. Suicide is a cop out.

So I have to ask, although he's desperate, what sort of a man allows that to kill him? I know people with no legs and they don't go throwing themselves off a cliff! I know unemployed people who are depressed. I know people who owe many times what this guy does and don't blame anybody for it, or beat themselves up too much about it.

From the News....The employer didn't kill all those people at work, the armed ex employee did. Poverty didn't kill the homeowner, the person who broke into his house did!

The system didn't flick the lighter, this man himself did.

There are people who lose 100x more than this and don't kill themselves

it really depends on how much depression a person can take, how much they loved their children and how tough they are in life as a result of their upbringing and their past. Maybe even some medical situations such as Bi-Polar mental instability or other diseases of the brain can make things worse. These women who are doing this should definately be held accountable for what they have done. This is nothing less than an insidious assault such as bullying gays or like bullying someone online and them commiting suicide to escape the onslaught. This only prooves that the government is behind this because men are not afraid of women, of course, but for a woman to be able to hav this kind of power over a man...to the point of suicide because of him having to sacrifice his whole life and existence and children and all pecuniary influxes. A woman alone cannot do this, it is the American government assaulting the average men in the country vicariously through their wives (by rewarding them with his earnings and removing his loved ones from him) that proves that the American government is purposely assaulting the men to their detriment and deaths, by suicide. It is merely an escape from an inevitable, lifelong depression from which they are trying to escape. Their wives are immediately to blame for this. they may be given and tempted with everything that a man owns and may have great opperssive power over the ex-husband via the graces and favoritism of the government........but they don't HAVE TO...and are not FORCED to do what they do out of control issues and an abuse of power , that the government has bestowed upon the ex-wives. It is their choice to divorce...to rob...to assault the ex-husband (by using government resources and court issued tyranny) and to deny them full "unmonitored" time with their own children and not to use their children as just another tool of oppression against the men. These women are simply murderers. They know the potential outcome and they still do what they do.

Welcome to the 21st Century. Where White=Female and Black=Male.

----------
P.S to all my fellow abolitionist's, don't debate with those who support or justify slavery. Slavery can't be justified.
To Atheist/agnostic abolitionist's, pro-slavery supporters are genetically born evil. I wouldn't be surprised if you took a look into their family history if they where pro-slavery during the last time slavery reared it's ugly head in our nation. So why tolerate a bunch of inbred pro-slavers?

To abolitionist theist's, there is no point in debating or giving quarter to people going to hell. There can be no forgiveness for advocating or enabling slavery. All those involved in the slave process, from the slave master(the one who receives the check), to the slave foreman :Judges, Lawyers, police officers, prison wardens and prison guards who force the obedience of the slave are all going to burn in hell(In the Torah[Old Testament] and the Koran there is very strict rules for the keeping of slaves in a humane fashion, the current American slavery system violates those rules).

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Naptown317
Idiot leaves children fatherless should be the title op.

No, the title should read:

State Laws leave children fatherless

The state law didn't require the guy be burned alive so no. Setting yourself on fire for 2-3 grand? Really?

reply to post by civilchallenger


Just want to make sure I understand this. This guy hits his kid, gets a divorce, has a financial responsibility to his children that he didn't feel like upholding, kills himself because he is too much of a chickensh-- to deal with his mistakes....and you act like he is some sort of hero? This guy deserved to be in jail for hitting the kid. It's his responsibility to pay for them and I hope the sob had to pay a ridiculous amount. He deserved to suffer in life, since he felt it was his place to make his children suffer. You are twisted for thinking he is some sort of saint.

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
This is a case where a man was out of work and simply couldn't pay child support. There are many other cases where men owe ten and twenty times as much, makes decent money and could easily pay, but nobody ever lifts a finger to make him do so. Basically, things are just screwed up all the way around.

I am calling you a liar(so feel free to contact an attorney and try to sue me for slander, I could use the cash I would win for proving your lawsuit frivolous for a vacation). The number of men who "refuse to pay" is so statistically small it doesn't even count as a single percentage. Heck what is it 10% of non-custodial fathers are delinquent.

5% are dead broke, and the other 5% are either literally dead or are disabled. 40% of non-custodial mothers are deadbeats. Any of them in jail? Nope.

The major reason why they don't pay? Because they feel they shouldn't have too.

Slavery is slavery and those who advocate slavery are going to burn.

I gotta chime in...
I owe 3,000 in back support myself, one year the VA screwed up my disability payments, so when I started getting paid again, I was making small payments on the back support to catch up, this was 5 years ago
In the last 5 years, I have missed a total of 3 full payments, 3 partial payments, and now my son's mother, mother of the year material she is, is having me taken to court for contempt.
I dont think I'll go to jail, but I AM in North Carolina, so you never know...BUT I made it clear to his mom, that if I do go to jail, she wont get squat, my disability cuts off while in the hoosegow, so the only one that would be suffering will be her.
Some idiots out there dont get it...you think youre getting the ex back, but theyre only cutting off their own nose to spite their face

This story is both saddening and maddening at the same time.

I feel bad for the guy for basically being a victim, not only to the system, but our way of life. The man usually pays the child support and loses custody of the kids....at least that's how every single case has gone that I know of personally.

But second, I can't believe he chose to off himself in this way...let alone have his kids grow up without their father. Maybe he felt their was no way out and that the cycle of jail would never end.

Originally posted by mescalito83
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

Just want to make sure I understand this. This guy hits his kid, gets a divorce, has a financial responsibility to his children that he didn't feel like upholding, kills himself because he is too much of a chickensh-- to deal with his mistakes....and you act like he is some sort of hero? This guy deserved to be in jail for hitting the kid. It's his responsibility to pay for them and I hope the sob had to pay a ridiculous amount. He deserved to suffer in life, since he felt it was his place to make his children suffer. You are twisted for thinking he is some sort of saint.

No. It is the responsibility of the custodial parent to financially support the children under their care. Secondly unless you can prove claims of abuse I will take your claims with a grain of salt. As desperate people trying to defend slavery will lie and women have a long track record of false accusations to ruin their ex.

You are an evil person advocating on behalf of an evil institution. I hope you get what you deserve, so that your eyes may be opened.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
I gotta chime in...
I owe 3,000 in back support myself, one year the VA screwed up my disability payments, so when I started getting paid again, I was making small payments on the back support to catch up, this was 5 years ago
In the last 5 years, I have missed a total of 3 full payments, 3 partial payments, and now my son's mother, mother of the year material she is, is having me taken to court for contempt.
I dont think I'll go to jail, but I AM in North Carolina, so you never know...BUT I made it clear to his mom, that if I do go to jail, she wont get squat, my disability cuts off while in the hoosegow, so the only one that would be suffering will be her.
Some idiots out there dont get it...you think youre getting the ex back, but theyre only cutting off their own nose to spite their face

Ahh "North Carolina", explains why. That state routinely violates the law to get more Child Support money(for Federal Reimbursement). Look up that one guy who fell behind, even paid it off but a system error caused a warrant for his arrest to go out for back child support or something. He was arrested while driving through North Carolina and while in a local prison, the prison guards beat him so badly that when they discovered the mess up they made him sign a non-disclosure agreement stating he wouldn't talk about what happened and would leave the State forever or they wouldn't let him go.

------
oops: read link about veterans benefits and child support, I was in error: www.ncbar.com...

I wrote a comment for the sentinal, but couldn't get it to publish on their site; I just wanted to speak, perhaps presumptuously somewhat on Thom Ball's behalf and to emphasise the message for his children......
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let the children and wife of Tom Ball know that as a man who was clearly able to elucidative his thoughts, he blamed none of you for his demise.
The subject of his attack is clear and loud.

When mature enough to understand, I pray you make enough of an effort to do so.
Although I have a deep contempt for the current war, led by America, against the Arab world; which has led me (even though I recognize it as unfair) to a disdain for Americans in general; I (an Australian) and most of the world recognize the wisdom of some of your founding fathers which has been handed down to your people as a questioning of what it is that grants or takes from a man (and woman) the ability to pursue happiness.
‘Fairness’ Is not what any man or policeman or court decrees, or social worker decrees. Neither is the pursuit of happiness. … ask any lawyer or judge. Fair=fair, and the law is the law.
The law decrees acceptable to circumcise male infants without anesthesia but not to cut the tail off of a dog. The law decrees acceptable to promote the sexualisation of prepubescents by the media and hollywood but not to have the ten commandments up outside a courtroom.
The ruling classes used loyal men like your father to fight wars only to deny them aid or even recognition upon their return with ailments like ‘agent orange’ or ‘gulf war syndrome’ . They call it a crime to smoke marijuana, while dumping vapors from ‘depleted uranium projectiles’ on them and the pregnant women and children and infants and fetuses of Iraq and say ‘there’s nothing to see here’.
They crucify soldiers who dare to point out crimes like those committed in the MaiLai Massacre, and make drug and gun runners Like Oliver North top Foreign Affairs Advisors and Admiral Poindexter heads of “Total Information Awareness”.
They put pedophiles in jails for less time than ‘whistle blowers’, and dope smokers.
And these men and women that are directly responsible for Killing 100’s of thousand and even millions of children they declare as national heroes when they say “it’s worth it” as Medeline Albright did.
So when your father says to burn them, he takes a page out of the book of your wisest American leaders.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of
patriots and tyrants. by Thomas Jefferson.
Your father is sorry for the smack[s] he gave, he lost his cool, a certain way to lose the strategic objective for any soldier. A certain way to lose the respect of you, ‘his troops’, yes… he failed in that respect. He failed you, as I and may fathers and mothers have failed our children, as they have from the time of Aristotle and earlier, but it’s never been a crime until now.
Unlike the woman who made a comment earlier, your father did not beat your spine with a frying pan; That woman’s mother was a hag, scum, and in any army a Sergeant would be shot by the general for such an action.

Your father was a sergeant, a hero, who died for the cause.
He wasn’t a General.
He did all a sergeant knew to do. Like the soldiers of old that threw themselves on a grenade, or threw themselves onto the barbed wire so their brothers could use his bleeding body as a bridge leading to the enemy.
He died in the hope that it would give courage to his troops, and that a General would take his flag and lead his troops to victory. He sadly died knowing that a sergeant can’t win a war.
When your Pres Abraham Lincoln faced war, and needed funding from the bankers at home, he said he faced two enemies, one in front of him and one behind and the one he feared most was the one behind…. The bankers.
It's amazing that so many Christians don't understand the message of Jesus beating the flesh of the bankers.

I hope that you grow to be great Generals, tacticians, and destroy the enemy, and understand fallible men like your father who do the best they can to destroy those who seek to ruin your country.
God bless all the Tom Balls for their loyalty and service, even though fallible and often misguide service to all men and women and children.

reply to post by phoneyid


Most Christian's are CINO's, Christian in name only.

Look at how readily they defend slavery, torture and cruelty when it benefits their vagina goddess.

I am beginning to think that if(I am not sure I even believe John's book of Revelation, Peter's Book of Revelation from what I read seems more consistent) the book of John's Revelation pan's out, it is women who collect Child support who are the "Whores of Babylon" or "Babylon the Great".

Because it say's when Babylon the great is gone the Kings or something will miss her. Meaning when the politicians are forced to follow the constitution(13th Amendment barring Slavery and indentured servitude and peonage[Child Support and alimony where ruled unconstitutional as a form of peonage[ a system nearly identical to our modern child support system was practiced in the South west but was outlawed when the Supreme Court ruled it violated the 13th Amendment]]) and outlaw slavery. Female voters will be angry that they lost an easy source of income.

Either way the history of the USA seems like an almost accelerated version of Rome. Because did you know in the ancient Roman Republic they outlawed slavery once? Then after the last Punic war the Roman's brought back slavery. It led to social corruption and weakness causing the Republic to become the Empire. The rest is as one could say "history".

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Why is everyone acting as if this man is a hero? He was a coward who just abandoned his kids by taking his own life....

That is not a hero... That is a man who had a problem and was apparently not mentally stable enough to handle it like a man.

He owed Child support.... Lots of people do.... he chose to kill himself..... Forget his children, forget all those that loved him Forgot all those that he meant so much to and just hurt deeply.....

Hey, he just "stuck it to the man", right?

Sorry, I don't feel like celebrating.... At all.

( Not talking about this thread imparticular... It is just the attitude I have seen most take on this subject in general)

edit on 17-6-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

It is genetics. Your an anglo from the south. It is in your blood to view slavery and true inhumanity as acceptable the same as you ancestors did(p.s some of my ancestors served in the battalions that helped reduce Texas to ash's as punishment for your ancestors slavery way's,makes me feel warm and fuzzy).

Hmm. In hindsight we will never see eye to eye. Your ancestors owned slaves while mine bled on the field of battle to free them. I guess all we can do is blame your inbred genetics.

We have been down this road before, every post you post in which it is possible to hold hatred towards males you hold hatred towards males.

sad the NH state motto used to be the live free or die state. now its the abortioned sorry i meant apportioned state. wtf does that mean any way apportioned? sounds like its being divided up.

This story and others I have seen posted in the response makes me confident I should be canonized for real. Let me explain:
I have never wanted children but I got with a man and became pregnant (he wanted children, he refused to use protection and he refused to pay for the pill when I couldn't pay and still didn't have benefits from my job) that's how I became pregnant also he refused to pull out. I had that child, abortion was never an option. This man has two kids from a prior relationship and was already in arrears for those two. I stayed with him, even having two more kids, why, I can tell you that I resent and despise this man for everything it's worth. But I also saw his ex keeping the other two kids from him and always dragging his butt to court and having him locked up as well (I paid the bail) I love my children, Even though I didn't want them. Now is too late to say "I don't want them". I love them they are my children but I do not love this man, in fact well as soon as the last one hits 18 I'm out and with a new identity. He will not find me. Now getting to the point here: I could've left him and taken the kids, But I knew that tear him apart I knew he'd never be able to pay CS for three more kids, I knew I was not equipped to support them myself (I have very low self esteem) so instead of bucking him and getting the freebes I stayed with him and tolerate him because I just couldn't make his life a living hell like his ex did. I had empathy for him and did what was best for the children, although if you ask them they'd say they'd have been better off if I had left. Not that he's a bad father, it's just that he makes promises he can never keep, the same as he did to me. Like promising never to make me live through hell then making hell happen. It's a long story, but I'll just say this I am not a materialistic person, but I wanted more from life and he made sure in every possible way that I could never have more, like not being responsible and insisting on knocking me up right away before I even had a chance to HAVE any material wealth, all my life and money had to be dedicated to my kids, I feel like an endentured slave myself. And he didn't help with my self esteem either much. In fact at every given opportunity he made sure to knock it further down. Just think of what the government is doing but on a micro-scale. And yet I am still so selfless that I tolerate it so as not to make four more people's lives misery when only one has to be for the time being. I am also confident that someday karma will catch his A$$, but that won't be on me. So listen to ofhumandescent, go with the ugly girl they're the ones who are so low on self esteem that they'd never ever even think of leaving you no matter how much a schmuck you turn out to be. It's true pretty girls wouldn't have tolerated what I have put up with. Also she's right they are too self centered and bordering on psychotic if not fully, I should know they are the ones who began my self esteem issues by drilling nasty words into my head all through school. If I ever see one of those S*%$&%)#$ Princesses again, I would fully blow their heads off with a 45! IF TSHTF Soon I may be able to do it and get away with it soon too!
This woman in the OP is obviously one of the mean girls from school the snobbish bigotted bully fashion mob!
Hope she gets her karma soon too!

Edit to add : also the thing ofhumandescent said to live with the gal for awhile first, well that's what was intended for us we were supposed to be just living together for a time and see, but he wanted to race to a family, so it goes both ways, the sad part is I never got a wedding just indentured servitude!!!! I'd say if you are going to live together you better be very slick (with BC) before s/he talks you into this trap. I really thought he was a nice guy, I was manipulated and wanted to please him. So this works both ways.

am i evil for wishing the us government would take a lead from this guy and suicide itself for not being able to pay for itself?

cant lock em up making our lives worse and then lock up people for doing the same thing the government is.

the us government is in contempt of its people lock em up and throw away the key.


now to the op: its was a stupid move either way he cant pay so he was going to get locked up and now that hes dead he will never be able to pay.

the exwife is just as evil as the government in this case.

the guy should have never offed himself it was a selfish easy way out.

reply to post by korathin


I'm sorry, but if I'm responsible enough to stick my dick in something, then I better be ready to pay for the consequences. Kids cost money and I will take responsibility for mine whether or not I'm the custodial parent. Deadbeat parents are a huge cause to many of the problems with the world and you are making excuses for them. I get what I deserve, respect from my children because I care for them.

Take the "unfounded" accusations with a grain of salt. Go ahead and turn a blind eye so that you can continue propagating your war against the man. I didn't advocate the system. I advocated grown ups taking responsibility for their grown up decisions. If they can't do that, why in the hell should I feel sorry for them when their mistakes catch up with them. This guy was a fool and a coward that played a part that makes people like you get sweaty and excited.