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Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison.

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posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:12 PM
You took the words right out of my mouth.

These laws are completely outdated and worthless, only to be used as a tool to punish, instead of what they are intended to do.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Two things to say : this is sad.

And... that's what happens when the divorce laws that were written in the 1930s are not reformed. I have never seen wives lose a case. Never. To lose, the wife has to be on crack or something and even then, she might not lose.

The wife might earn 250k$ a year, and the father might be unemployed, doesn't matter, the father has to pay or he will go to jail.

REFORM THE STINKING LAWS. THIS AIN'T THE 1930S ANYMORE. Women have a better standing, they can work, they are independant, etc.

Most child support laws are used by pissed off ex wives to screw with their ex, it has nothing to do with real care for the child.

Abolish them or heavily reform them.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:19 PM

Originally posted by indigothefish
reply to post by civilchallenger

june 11th 1963 Thích Quảng Đức burned himself in protest of the prosecution of buddhists

the dates are close, possibly even closer if you knew how to count the moon in ... coincidence?

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

I can't believe that monk is just sitting there while he is being burned alive, I mean just sitting like you or I would on the grass somewhere. Amazing power of the mind

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:21 PM
BTW when i was paying my child support "the good ol days" as i have worked most of my kids life. The mother did not spend the money on her. She spent it on drugs and booze and herself. She did not take care of my kid. I had to by her clothes. I bought all the Christmas presents. I even called CPS on the mother several times and she just got a slap on her wrist. She even complained that she was not getting child support when i was working "my kid" when he mother was in fact lying telling her that because I was paying. You can imagine where the money went

Then my son from another mother basically the same thing. She was just a roll in the hay and got pregz. She is not as bad but she did not see him bathed and was poorly clothed. She made it hard to stay in contact with him as she was constantly moving around and I always had to hunt them down. The only time i hear from him is when he wants something, ahhh im just an ATM to them.

With my wife she has 3 young daughters and the father was a dead beat that wanted nothing to do with them. He even denies that 2 of them were his. He never paid child support but when they did garnish his money he quit because of it. So it was me and her that raised these girls as well like my own. It was hard, kids are expensive. But i never quit a job because i refused to pay my child support. I even had to pay 50% out my earnings because i was behind. But I am NOT IN CONTEMPT ! I have my back against the wall. I am not evading child support. But in this sick system i am all of the above.

They stacked the deck against me

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:25 PM
I rarely get choked up about reading things on ATS, but I am sorry for you, your brother and his children.

He did what he thought the right thing was and paid with his life.

Something is really screwed up in the USA.

Originally posted by Thunder heart woman
Oh God. This made me cry. Please let me explain why.

I seriously hate the child support system, it's corrupt and it's designed to punish the non custodial parent.

My brother fell behind on his child support payments one year when he became ill. He was forced to quit his job because he couldn't work he was so weak. He went to the court and filed for a hearing to explain to the judge what was taking place and that he would pick his support payments back up asap. The judge said they would note this change, and that this would not stop the order, but that he would be in arrears. Shortly after my brother was admitted to the hosp, to have many tests ran.

He got behind close to 2k. His ex went and filed contempt against him, even though she knew he was sick. On the morning he was to appear in court, he was in the hospital. The court issued a bench warrant, they came to the hosp to get my brother. My brother panicked, check himself out of the hosp AMA and went to court.

They took him to jail, where he sat for six months with no medical care, as punishment for not paying child support. He died two weeks after being released from jail.

The OP story really got to me, I cannot imagine the desperation and fear this man felt. He had to have felt extremely fearful because once child support gets you, they got you. 2-3K is not that much money either to be in arrears. There are dead beat fathers who have been on the run for years of their lives to avoid paying and they owe way up in the hundreds of thousands.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:37 PM
What a dumb ass.
This dude sensitive as hell, killing yourself over something like this.

Good riddance.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by pikypiky

For those who don't have children in a post divorce situation, there is NO arrangement between spouses possible in America right now. It simply isn't a legal option, even if both Mother and Father are 100% amicable in the split and stay the best of friends. You WILL pay support to the STATE and they will then distribute what they determine is proper to the Mom.

Not strictly so, in all cases and all places. In NC, MY ex and I split, and I was giving her 2/3 of my check, EVERY check, on a mutual agreement between us, no CPS involved. I can get by on next to nothing anyhow, so it really didn't bother me - I just wanted to make sure they were taken care of.

Of course, as often happens in the course of human events, she then got greedy. Figured if I could get by on 1/3, then I could probably get by on less. Maybe I could have. We'll never know. Instead of discussing it with me, she decided to take me to court, and just take more. THAT didn't set real well with me. It was ME that insisted on getting CPS involved in the payment scheme then. What I knew, and evidently she didn't, is that there is a schedule of payments, and it's based on your salary as to what you will pay. She took a substantial hit in support payments - got around a third of what she'd been getting when I voluntarily paid it.

Well! She then comes around to my way of thinking, and says, "this is what you were paying before, you can still do that much cash in hand, right?" I actually grinned then. "Nope" says I. "You took me to COURT over it, and the court has spoken. You get what you get now. Have a nice life."

I lived a lot better after that, and she went out and got a job.

My point is, there are still places and situations where it doesn't have to be paid through CPS, and is at the discretion of the agreeing parties, if they can come to an agreement. A side note is that sometimes greed just doesn't pay off like you'd like for it to - especially if your ex is a prick like me. Don't get me wrong - I still made sure the kids had everything they needed. It's just that after that I was the one deciding where the bulk of the money went in regards to them, rather than big screen TVs and shrubbery to make the house pretty. What SHE needed money for, well, that just wasn't my problem any more. That's what jobs are for.

edit on 2011/6/18 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:47 PM

Originally posted by DuceizBack
What a dumb ass.
This dude sensitive as hell, killing yourself over something like this.

Good riddance.


posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:54 PM
It's extremely sad that he saw this as the only way out of his problems. I do not judge people who commit suicide. I believe in reincarnation and a wise person said we have all dont it in some past life. I also believe that the Catholic Church has the wrong attitude on services for suicided people. That being said, I do not believe in suicide per se, but feel compassion for those who are lost in the way and feel utterly hopeless.

Being jailed for not being wealthy is absolutely a horrid thing in society. That's what this boils down to, because look at the economy. You cannot work a regular hourly job and make it. Something is very wrong folks and we should see this as a sign we need to make changes.
We are really using jails for the wrong stuff now I think. But that seems to be all part of the Police State. In Statism, the individual lives for the State. When will people learn that Totalitarianism is for the Supremacy of the State and the individual is nothing but a cog in the wheel. TPTB have designed it so.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:55 PM

Originally posted by nuttin4U
The more laws you allow them to pass...the worse things are GOING to get. The way i see it is like this: business is business...and jail is BIG business. Back about 12 years ago...the going rate to house a prisoner was $30,000/year. You figure it out.

Question: how EXACTLY does jailing someone help the child? And, what does it do for the mother? It sounds more like revenge or bitterness. Hardly about "supporting the child"!

I 100% agree with you. I feel so badly for this man. In a deep moment of despair and hopelessness...he felt trapped ....he felt he had no more options....and took his own front of the court house....he made a heavy statement....I am hoping the justice system will take notice of this.....isn't it better to allow the man to find work..and make some legal payment arrangements.....or if the justice system feels punishment is necessary...have the man do some sort of community at least he can still look for work...and eventually start making those the child has no father....and the mother has no payments....nobody won.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
reply to post by Adyta

My son had a good job with the Illinois Tollway Department and paying his child support - we won't even mention the 400.-500 USD worth of clothes I bought for our grand daughter to take her through winter.........practical nice stuff from Khols and Target, not designer brands but not Kmart either..........all to have her mother throw the clothes back at us and call my son's work and get him fired.

Don't even get me going
Simply read my other replies on all my posts that deal with divorce and women that use the system to muck over their ex and destroy their children psychologically.

Many women are using the court system to "get back" at their ex...........women are being encouraged by the lawyers and judicial system (money scam) to keep up fighting using their children as pawns and the men are now the victims.

Young men out there: Please from the Paternal Grandmother, who dearly loves her grand daughter, please please please again for the one hundreth time, live with your sweetie pie for a couple years, make double sure you both do not get pregnant because once she is pregnant she will literally have a collar and leash around your neck.

Watch how she treats her enemies, is she vendictive, loves to fight, relishes getting back?

So often men pass over the not so pretty, chubby girl who is use to not having the world worship her in lieu of the beautiful spoiled princess that is not use to compromising, use to getting everything handed to her and use to being allowed to treat everyone as mean as possible and get away with it.

You can always get plastic surgery, you can always have a gastric bypass............looks are so not important because looks can be changed..........personality cannot.

I'm not saying all beautiful women are bad. In my youth I was considered very pretty and was built quite well.

I had five marriage proposals, maybe because I was also nice, hard working (orphaned at 9 so I had a life similar to Oliver Twist) and learned early on to play fair.

The main thing you need to look for in a partner isn't how "hot" they are, honest in thirty years that really won't matter.

Below sums up what love really is.

Marriage is a legally binding contract. When children are involved it gets real tricky and usually children are considered the property of the mother so if you are a male you will pay through the nose and if your ex wife wants to toy around with you - she will have the full support of the legal system to mess over you even if you have joint custody.

We have spent over $18,000 towards lawyers in stead of setting up a fund for my grand daughter.

If my ex daughter in law had played her cards right and allowed us to be a part of our grand daughter's life, she'de be sitting in a 3 bedroom 1-1/2 bath with full basement / washer/dryer town house right this minute, but she would rather mess over my son, husband and me because she was raised by a psycopathic father and has some major issues..................oh but physically she is beautiful, 110 pounds wearing a wet towel with long billowing blonde hair and big brown eyes.

I tried to warn my son, but like most men, he thinks with the head between his legs and will live the next 13 years regretting his bad choice.

Men, think before you wind up hooked.

That poor man saw no way out and his ex probably played some of the hateful games my ex daughter in law from hell has been playing with my son.

I won't even go into my son was the one who raised his daughter for the first two years because "mom" got sick and threw up changing poopie diapers. She would work and go out almost every single night leaving my son who had a full time job to come home and care for their daughter while mom went to school and helped her brother run his Kareokee business in Illinois.

Just a warning again to all young men out there, think long and hard before you mess around, young women now seem to want the Queen for a day experience (big wedding) and than the mommy experience and when they are done with the sperm donor, it's good bye charlie.

Not in all cases, but now you are looking at a divorce rate of almost 50%.

Every single child deserves both a mother and father.

Every single child deserves knowing both sets of grand parents.

My ex daughter in law's father wanted our beloved, precious grand daughter aborted
and wouldn't see mom or our grand daughter until he was on his death bed.

Her mother, abandon her children when my daughter in law was around four..........she could not take the vicious legal games her husband was playing and just left.

BTW: My ex daughter in law used the exact same lawyer against my son as her father used against her mother.

IMO That woman should be charged with driving her ex to suicide..................she has destroyed not only her ex husband's life but her children as well all for her own self satisfaction at "getting back".

You don't like someone fine, divorce them, leave them alone, don't stalk them or their fiance' (my ex daughter in law has stalked my son's fiance').

I can't understand people being so hateful and mean now days, it seems like we are being encouraged, particularly women to be spoiled, bratty and &itchy.............Bridezillas, Wedding Cakes (how the sam hell can you have 1,000 episodes of a friggin wedding cake and dresses?????

We were married, my husband and I in a one bedroom apartment - it rained the day we rented the park.

We had a sheet cake from Jewels.

I wore a $50.00 (got 1/2 off when they found out it was going to be my wedding dress) and this June 22 will mark our 38th wedding anniversary.

It is not the ceremony, it is not the size of the diamond ring.

It is the love in your heart.

Younger people are spoiled, most (not all) have had it too easy and don't know the meaning of compromising and working things out.

My heart goes out to the man and his kids.

As far as the woman - she indirectly drove him to it and should be charged with indirectly causing his death.

Now, go ahead and blast away - but you have not lived for eight years barely seeing your grand daughter, paying tens of thousands of dollars just so your son can see her (they have joint custody but that is a joke and the woman can ignore court rulings and get away with it in Kane County, Illinois)

Lastly, as this is a conspiracy site: This break down of the family is not just happening - it was planned. TPTB have made it so increasingly difficult and stressful for a young married couple to make a go of marriage that many cannot take the stress and split.

But, this is good for corporations because the family unit is being dismantled and in place of that people are building loyalties towards their other words they are becoming good little compliant corporate drones.

No family..........just company servants, which is what "they" (whomever they are) want.

Welcome to the New World Order.
edit on 18-6-2011 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 07:56 PM
reply to post by civilchallenger

This post is absolute BS!!!! Your post does not mention what State this gentleman was in, however, it would be great to know. Let me start by saying this individual should have sought the mental health services as instructed by the court regardless of who this establishment may have treated in the past. He needed it! He burned himself to death over $2,000 to $3,000, and left his children not only fatherless, but now to be taken care of by the American tax payers via his social security benefits.

The system may not be perfect, but fathers have a responsibility to monetarily take care of their children, as well as provide insurance for their healthcare. As an attorney, I am certain that had this individual shown the Court that in ten years of paying this is all he owed (which I believe to be untrue in light of the fact it is stated that the attorney for the wife had summoned toddlers).

All Mr. Ball needed to do was show up for Court, tell the Judge that he was looking for work, at the very worse the Judge would have given him a date by which to have a job and begin payments (in a new amount to make up for the arrearage), or at the very worse he would have gotten 30 days in jail, to teach him a lesson, should it appear to the Court that Mr. Ball was not attempting to make any payments. Judges are human beings too and if the case was as Mr. Thomas Ball has indicated - death would never have been an option in the first place!

This gentleman, Thomas Ball, was mentally ill, needed counseling which he was directed to receive and he himself choose not to get it. Instead he thought he would leave his children for the rest of us to take care of and make his wife look bad, or feel bad.

Fortunately, Thomas Ball has done this to himself, and now his children can go on living safely. This could have turned out much worse, and he could have killed the children too! Thank God he didn't do that! I feel sure that his children and ex-wife will have no feelings of guilt, as they personally know this man, their father and ex-husband, and know the extent of the mental issues he was troubled with!

May the good Lord keep his ex-wife safe, as well as the children, but to blame this on the system is completely wrong! AND I'd bet you are a man who owes child support - or you would view this as everyone else does, and not the way you have presented it!

Once again another father only thinking of himself and not his children! SHAMEFUL - in both cases - Mr. Ball's and that of this poster!

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:08 PM
reply to post by Realtruth

Your reply was right on the money and I am the Paternal Grandmother.

I have watched for now going on eight years my son getting screwed, screwed and screwed again by the little twitch he decided to marry.

But than again, men think with the head between their legs and go for the beauty queen.

Many women that are really physically beautiful are use to being given everything they want, they are not use to compromising, working things out or thinking about anyone but pick your own poison.

Yes some people change, but if you live with someone for two-three years and wait until you have the money and stability to have children things usually work out better.

My grand daughter actually has a calendar marking off the days until she is 12. At 12, in Illinois the court finally decides a child is worth talking to and will ask her what she finally wants.

She has told us since she could talk, she does not like her mother - her mother is now on her seventh or eighth boyfriend, her mother leaves her alone a lot, does not talk to her about what is happening with her body (she is developing like I did at ten) and I had to talk to her about what to expect within the next couple of years.

My son's fiance, who he lives with recently took our grand daughter out shopping because training bras no longer are appropriate for her (yes she is taking after me - I reached puberty at ten, her mother at 16-17).

What worries me is all the tens of millions of children our society is allowing to be used as pawns in these vicious head games...........what kind of messed up adults will the next generation be?

Our grand daughter has us, when she does get to see us, her and I talk about many things and she has, thankfully, a good head on her shoulders.

She also has a very deep bond with her father because he raised her from infancy up to when her mother took off and disappeared with her for three months at the age of 2-1/2.

People out there, sex is great, bop all you want - but be careful who you choose to have children with and for god sake, make sure your marriage is stable before you bring a baby into this crazy world.

Children have enough now days to handle without having to handle screwed up parents, fighting viciously.

Showing a child hate teaches them hate.

And we wonder why we have to build more prisons.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:10 PM
reply to post by Realtruth

I am very sorry about the loss of the "brother!" I would like to ask if the reason he died had anything to do with the illness he had prior to going to jail. The letter states that they came to hospital to get the brother, who panicked and checked himself out AMA. This is BS! If the sheriff or his deputy comes to get you, hospital or not - you don't get a chance to check yourself out AMA. They either take you immediately, or the doctor says you MUST stay. If the doctor said he MUST stay and he left anyway knowing he was ill - that was his own fault. Further to leave the hospital before you are well to show up for Court when you don't have to is nuts. Additionally, there are nurses and doctors in every jail in America, did they not notice he was ill after just leaving a hospital! These are jails we are taking about here folks - not prisons! They do not put folks in prison for child support!

I am personally sick and tired of hearing all of these BS, hearsay, stories that are total fabrications with regard to the poor men who don't want to support their own children. SHAME ON THEM!

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:28 PM
reply to post by factbandit

You are clueless.

My son had a good job with the Illinois Tollway Commission.

His ex wife, called them and got him fired..........thus cutting her own thoat because my son has always made sure his daughter was cared for and he always paid his child support when he had a job.

Upon their divorce I informed my ex daugher in law in front of a policeman that if she did not make this a messy, vicious affair and wreck her daughter's psyche, I would make sure she had a $1,500 check every single month to ensure she and my grand daughter could live in a nice neighborhood.

I begged her to at least allow my son, husband and I to be included in her daughter's life as we are a part of her family.

We now own a ten room house, a three bedroom, 1-1/2 bath town house and 100 acres up north............if my ex daugher in law had not flaunted "joint custody" (there have been times we have not see our grand daughter for six months and the court doesn't care) she would be the proud owner of said town house.

But she would, like her tormented, demented, alcoholic father, rather fight using her daughter as a pawn to get back at my son, my husband and me.

Her mother won't have anything to do with her because she is so screwed up psychologically.

Yes, I warned my son, the very night I met her (3 AM I went to go potty and she was sitting at my computer).

But, son's for the most part, like most men don't listen to reason, and they are played like suckers by women that know how to milk the system.

FYI: I buy at the beginning of fall, 4-500. USD worth of clothes for my grand daughter so she has enough clothes to carry her through winter..............nice stuff, from Khols and Target.

Shoes (4-5 pair)
Coat 1 nice heavy winter
Hoodies (3-4) 1 sherpa lined
jeans 3-4 pair
Shirts 5-6
socks, undies, bras, jewelry (not expensive).

All to be thrown at my son in the parking lot.................................vicious vicious vicious just like her father that wanted her to abort my grand daughter

You haven't a clue the hell my entire family has been put through for the last almost decade, not a clue.

My son, raised his daughter the first two years because mom would work and go out almost 7 nights a week leaving my son to change diapers, midnight feedings, etc.

You haven't a has gotten to be that more and more men I meet are nicer than most spoiled princesses.

You see, in our American society it is now cute to be like Paris Hilton or Lindsey Lohan, spoiled, selfish and mean.

You haven't a clue.

And when my son has had a job and not had my ex daughter in law from hell screw with him, he was never late with his child support.

My grand daughter is us, a part of our flesh and blood.

But than again, if your kid came to me needing a coat or meal, or even a warm bed to sleep in - I would because that is the kind of people we are.

Again, my son when not being messed with (her calling his place of employment which is illegal but the court doesn't care or won't prosecute her) was always on time with his child support.

And, my ex daughter in law dresses my grand daughter in rags while having her nails and hair done and wears Prada shoes....................again, you haven't a clue and it is women like you that keep allowing the system to now discriminate against men.

Women are smarter than men, they know how to manipulate both men and the system and that is what many (not all) are doing.


We didn't see or hear from my grand daughter at Christmas, my birthday, my husbands birthday, my son's birthday, Easter..............................nope, mom makes sure that she excludes us from my grand daughters life.

I am mad at your cluelessness but sincerly pray you never ever have to go through the heart ache we've had to endure................a child has two sets of parents and the mother and her parents are not the only family the child has.

With all the money my daughter in law and my son, husband and I have blown on lawyers - we could have set up a fund to put her through college or funded her wedding.

But my daughter in law is so stupid and vendictive she is giving her money and our money to the legal system that keeps this fight going in order to get themselves richer.

People just cannot put aside their childish hate and learn to do what is best for the child.

Sorry but if I handed your daughter $400.-500. USD worth of winter clothing would you throw them back at my son in the parking lot all in the name of revenge?

edit on 18-6-2011 by ofhumandescent because: grammar

edit on 18-6-2011 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:29 PM
While I feel sorry for this whole situation, we actually have a guy here who kills himself over $3000?

His kids lose a dad, a mum loses a son.

There are people who lose 100x more than this and don't kill themselves. In what is 'in' a man, his 'character', not his external circumstances that define the man. I don't mean this guy was a bad man but his character is flawed. If any of you think this is not correct it goes to show how much your character, morality, ethics and conscience have been allowed to be changed by what you are taught is now socially acceptable. Suicide is a cop out.

So I have to ask, although he's desperate, what sort of a man allows that to kill him? I know people with no legs and they don't go throwing themselves off a cliff! I know unemployed people who are depressed. I know people who owe many times what this guy does and don't blame anybody for it, or beat themselves up too much about it.

From the News....The employer didn't kill all those people at work, the armed ex employee did. Poverty didn't kill the homeowner, the person who broke into his house did!

The system didn't flick the lighter, this man himself did.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 08:32 PM

Originally posted by sith9157

Originally posted by indigothefish
reply to post by civilchallenger

june 11th 1963 Thích Quảng Đức burned himself in protest of the prosecution of buddhists

the dates are close, possibly even closer if you knew how to count the moon in ... coincidence?

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

edit on 6/17/2011 by indigothefish because: (no reason given)

I can't believe that monk is just sitting there while he is being burned alive, I mean just sitting like you or I would on the grass somewhere. Amazing power of the mind

Anyone consider that a monk burns himself to death as a protest against persecution? Mental health issues anyone?

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:13 PM
Can anyone else pick out the ass backwards way this is done? Are the people sentenced to debtors prison able to work while in prison? No, I mean yes. They can work, for 40 cents a day. So how is one who is in debt out in the real world who hasn't been able to pay anything but his rent and utilities going to be able to pay if he is LOCKED UP??????

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:13 PM
reply to post by daggyz

Maybe that poor guy didn't have the support system my son has,namely my husband and I.

My son is a very brave, manly kind of guy, but the only time I have seen him cry was last Christmas when he was suppose to get her for 1/2 a day and mom decided no.

My husband and I were excellent parents.............we lived for our children and we passed this trait, this example of the child MUST COME FIRST........................That man killed himself because he probably saw his ex alienating his kid(s) from him, messing with him - again if you haven't gone through what I have gone through with a real psychopathic daughter in law, you haven't a clue as to how heartless some people can be and how the system could give a (brown word).

Haven't a clue.

Most people like to think they have empathy but really until they have walked ten miles in someone else's shoes, they haven't a clue.

My guess, is this woman pushed him too far and she, her karma will directly be linked with his death.

The man died, the kid(s) lost their father, the man's parent's lost a son and the woman could careless, she got her revenge................she won.

But, what goes around comes around and when you drive someone to something so drastic as suicide, that person is as much to blame as if she had taken a gun and shot him in the heart for that is what she did essentially.

Many men I have met deeply love their children.

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:27 PM
(Matthew 10:36) "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."

FEMINSM is to blame because it's a direct attack on the average working man (middle class). The plan of Feminism is to split the families in the US and the UK up by financially oppressing the husband and using his wife to do it. The wife gets everything in court, including the children and is tempted by money. Realizing that she can get more money by being divorced than by being married ...they are all too quick to take it. The money rarely comes though as this scene of the ex-husband not being able to afford the cost of this government favoritism (in favor of women only) is played out by the millions each year. As pointed out above, the courts also take the licenses and passports from men assuring that they can't find a job....making it impossible, in most cases, for the man to get a job (as we know almost everyone needs a car to get to work...even a bike doesn't do it most of the time, as if the man can even afford a bike). The women (really wanting the money that they "sacrificed" for and feel they somehow "earned"), then, proactively attack the men themselves using the courts and any means they can to get their money. It is selfishness at it's darkest. The children (not having a father) usually grow up to be barbaric and end up in jail or the military... and if they are a male, when they get out of the military the exact same thing happens to them. I have preached about this for years on here and have certainly taken the slings and arrows from Feminists and even men who are supporting them (for some odd reason). As I see it, Feminism and any woman who supports it, and even more-so, participates in doing this to a man should be tried for murder! It is passive oppression against men using the government and the men's wives against them by tempting the wife (who as a woman is usually materialistic) and who has an agenda to suppress any rebellions from the average man who would historically stand up and fight the government as they try to take a country away from it's people.

The plan of feminism really is to split up the core of the tight-knit families that have made America strong. the government knows that if American families are strong and together as "one", that we cannot be beaten. So the plan began to remove GOD from our country, to split the American families apart, rendering men suicidal or in prison or homeless, and the children (not being raised properly), would be rebellious and belligerent. the belligerent males would end up as most other males owing an immense amount of child support and in prison...or dead or would choose the military and become a slave ready for his death.

Females, have no real problems at all these days compared to men, as they clearly are taking all of the jobs and getting all the child support (while not having to pay ANYTHING themselves), in a majority of the cases are even awarded alimony or calling it what it really is........payment by the ex-husband as if they were married yet of no benefit to him. That's right, support for a wife who divorced him and he still has to pay her as if they were married....she, again, has to pay him NOTHING. They are even awarded the children in many cases when the father is the better candidate. Our system is in favor of women over men and more and more men are succumbing to suicide as an only way out. Having to live anymore is literally a hell on earth, so they figure they will just end it quick. The reason why I say it is passive murder by these ex-wives and feminists and the government is because anyone else who is the mastermind behind a crime that ends in ones death is considered first degree murder and the perpetrators are usually sentenced to death themselves or sued heavily.

Charles Manson never actually killed anyone, but he did persuade others to kill for him.This is what feminists are doing to men. Using their own wives and colluding with the government in a mutual blame for the deaths of men. Feminists just hate men....the government fear that they may never usurp the country if "family men" who are protecting their families were to ever stand up against them.

You see, it is the Man, the Father, the Husband....that fights the rogue government from a tyrannical government such as America has become. This guys wife should be at least tried for manslaughter but more-so for the same type of persuasive murder that Charles Manson was charged under by law. The dictionary defines manslaughter as "Law . the unlawful killing of a human being without malice aforethought. " Considering that these women are fully aware of what they are doing to these men suggests that they are willing for him to pay the ultimate price. This isn't a new thing after all, but it is a problem that is on the rise and as you can clearly see the American government is looking the other way and continuing to support feminism and women who use men as their own personal "ATM's".

The only way this will ever be remedied is if men wake up and realize that they are personally being targeted by feminism, women who support feminism and the government who support feminism in pursuance of their own agendas. Those men who feel they are not being attacked, JUST WAIT! When all other men are out of the way, who do you think they are coming after next??

Men who support feminism are literally hanging themselves. In a pathetic attempt to be chivalrous and sometimes, thinking they are going to get sex by supporting these tyrannical Jezebels.....will find that they will be sacrificed just like all the rest of us. The only reason why they are not being attacked right because the women are using them to further their agenda. In essence, these men are helping these ex-wives crush other men simply by supporting them in their cause. Oh yeah, they never get the sex they want either. So be aware men,......this could very well be your fate in the future if depression sets in and you are being surrounded by 3 entities who are all working together to oppress you to the point of death or absolute loss of your freedom.

Make no mistake about it, it is a conspiracy against the average male in America.....the Father, the Husband and the Patriot who would be the only one to stand up to protect his country.........the women who are doing this to them sure aren't going to fight against a government who is feeding them everything a man has with a silver spoon. THIS WOMAN SHOULD BE TRIED FOR MANSLAUGHTER! When a gay person commits suicide because of bullying....the world and the American government directs full attention and crucifies the person who did the bullying. When someone online gets bullied and commits suicide.....same thing. When a man gets bullied (not so much by the ex-wife) but, by the government and government subsidized programs, such as feminism......they do nothing at all! In fact they keep on funding the feminist organizations and keep on giving the ex-wives everything they want and then some at the expense of the fathers.

This is planned oppression resulting in murder....and because of the statistics of suicide as a result of this...ex-wives and feminists and any government workers, friends of the court or District Attorney's who design, initiate and proliferate these plans should be tried for murder because the government is keeping records of these statistics and still continue to keep doing what they are doing at the expense of men's lives, yet if anything happens to a woman, that doesn't even result in her death SHE is fully protected by the courts and the accused will pay heavily for any and all offenses. It's passive murder and there is intent, because of the knowledge of these cases and WHY they happened, and the choice of the government to (not only do nothing about it) but indeed, to help the agressors of this 'oppression resulting in a death by depression, initiated by purposeful intentions of malice'.The average American male is now the enemy of the state and most organizations they control. Wake up men!

Here is a site/page on this particular subject that is worth looking into:

posted on Jun, 18 2011 @ 09:31 PM
reply to post by Thunder heart woman

Sounds like a rather effed up system we have going here. We're about two steps away from executing the non-custodial parent and processing his corpse to feed his children. Not surprising I guess. American culture, in many ways, is essentially about hurting people. A rain of nuclear warheads across the U.S. might, in the long run, be a wonderful thing for the human race.

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