Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison.

Don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but this guy got into the the divorce/child support mess by smacking his young daughter and drawing blood.

Can't say I feel very sorry for him. Regardless of the many problems in the child support system there is no excuse to beat your wife and/or kids.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I have to agree with you but at the same time I do disagree.
Sure he has abandoned his children and all that loved him, that was a bad thing.
But hopefully the children will learn a lesson from their fathers pain and do their best to keep the Gumment out of their lives.
Most probably the childrens mother will poison the kids against their father, if history is any indicator.
Personally me, if I had gotten in that deep, I would have not killed myself but found a more constructive way to release my anger.

This is a case where a man was out of work and simply couldn't pay child support. There are many other cases where men owe ten and twenty times as much, makes decent money and could easily pay, but nobody ever lifts a finger to make him do so. Basically, things are just screwed up all the way around.

I think people are thinking too big with this so called statement he supposedly made.

I think the only statement he was trying to make, was how 'horrid' his ex wife was. Somewhere along the way, in his own head, he cast her the villan. And that is the method of life that worked for him.

We don't know the whole story, but I am willing to bet, this wasn't his first time to the rodeo for non payment. I bet there is a lot more to the story of their marriage and the ending of it being let out.

For all we know, he could have been a classic NPD (narcissistic personality disorder) and who knows what type of stunts he pulled in the courtroom or with his family during the divorce.

Just as his ex wife could have made his life a living hell. No one knows what really went on.

But what I do find odd, is that he was being thrown into jail for that small amount. but we don't know if he had previously paid a larger sum of back child support. Maybe the courts have had enough of his antics and decided to toss him into jail due to that.

Antics in a divorce come in all shapes and sizes, and some will do anything not to pay support. Sometimes the courts get involved and even if the ex spouse never wanted things to go this far.. are powerless to stop it once it starts into motion.

So many details are being left out... but my gut reaction is.. this was his final FU to his exwife for being ordered to pay child support.. his last desperate attempt to make her the bad guy in this greek tragedy.

I read all fifteen pages of his manifesto-- everyone should.

I didn't hit anyone but was the punching bag for my violent ex-wife-- but I have lived the same reality Thomas Ball explains so well.

Can you imagine what it is to think the courts will do the right thing, and over time realize your children do not even remember you?

I was the at-home-Dad. The police came to protect me many times, but I refused to have her arrested. Once, they took her to the shelter because they understood my position in the community probably could not stand the scandal of my filing charges against her. They only dropped off at the shelter-- did not say she had been hit-- she hadn't-- she had done the hitting. The shelter gave her a lawyer and asked her to press charges against me and in turn would give her a low-interest automatic qualifying home loan. We were renting. She thought this was a good idea.

I thought she was under a lot of stress, but in reality she had a personality disorder and was forging ahead into psychosis-- but I didn't know that at the time.

My fifth or sixth time in court, the county Prosecutor was removed and the Judge sat himself down on the floor at my feet, to give me his sincere apology. But I was out of my home, out of my job, my wife disappeared with my children and everything I owned. I received the divorce papers without even being notified of a hearing. My child support was twice the legal maximum. My visitation was not enforced. My filings with the court unanswered for six years-- and counting.

The accusation prevents me from resuming my former profession-- too much suspicion to risk hiring me. I'm smart and well educated. I found another profession quickly into which I could slide --making even better money although the work had no meaning to me.

Can you imagine working full time in a professional job while living in your car "down by the river?" How long are you going to keep that job? Think anyone wants an accountant or administrator who is living on the street?

And if he tells, the answer of family, friends and co-workers, is "There must be more to the story than we are hearing!" Yet, there isn't. It really does work that way.

The annual homeless count funded by our government provides a check-list of reasons to ask the homeless persons. None of which is "child support." Yet, most would check that blank if it were there. I work with the homeless-- I know their stories, and I participate in the annual homeless count. Over 5,000 in my county alone.

* Don't buy gasoline, but maybe buy spray paint (read the manifesto, and you'll understand).
* Don't walk by a homeless person without acknowledging the humanity of that person.
* Don't satisfy your need for a sense of security at the cost of the truth. What the man wrote is the truth. On this site, people like conspiracy theories. His manifesto tells you exactly what many already know-- but is kept secret.
* He is not the first dehumanized father to think his suicide will make a difference; but if we read his words, maybe it will be the last needed.

Happy Father's Day.

Originally posted by Adyta
I never understood that. Put a man in jail because he can't pay child support, thus ensuring that the child support will NEVER be paid... Makes no sense. It's like suspending their license and then asking why they don't have a job...

I grew up in Keene, NH and just recently moved out of that town. Keene is absolutely insane right now. In Keene, you have ZERO rights.

The police in Keene are the most oppressive and absurd I have ever come across. I have been harassed by them for simply walking down the street. "What are you doing?" "Where the hell are you going at this time of night?"...

The Keene District Court is hands down the most ridiculous court in America. I dare you to challenge this statement. When I was 20, I was ticketed for internal possession of alcohol (a minor in possession of alcohol... in their stomach). It was a second offense, so the fine was $800 and a 6 month loss of drivers license. I thought this was funny, as I wasn't even DWI. The guy that went to the bench before me was a DWI, and only got 3 months loss of license and ordered to go to some program, and no fine. I paid my fine and was told I didn't have to go back to court again.

Anyways, I paid the fine and that was that. About 6 months later I get a call from the Keene Police Department telling me I have a warrant out for my arrest for not showing up in court. UGH, what a pain in the #. So I drive about 100 miles to Keene, and talk to the judge. What happened was the court house didn't acknowledge the payment, and at that point I had no record of it.

I paid the fine, and they told me I didn't. After 20 mins of hearing the judge chew me out because of THEIR mistake, I convince him I did in fact pay the fine. The judge pretty much says "You're a piece of #" (paraphrasing), and that was that.

I've been to Keene District Court a total of 2 times, and both times was treated like a degenerate criminal.

Sorry about the long life story, but my hatred of Keene, NH runs deep, and I had to vent.

I'm sorry that you were treated so badly by the judicial system in your area. In the 1980s when I did a lot of court-appointed misdemeanor and some felony criminal defense I was deeply offended by the attitude of many of the people on the prosecution side of the criminal justice system (police, prosecutors, jail, and probation personnel, and even some judges) toward the accused. Many held the very attitude that you describe. Its predictable effect is to burn into the accused's brain that they are low class miscreants who have no hope of ever becoming anything better. It was a shocking dose of reality for me. It was as though the system sought to confirm and perpetuate in the accused a self image that his misbehavior defines what he is and that he can never escape the labels he is being branded with.

reply to post by allprowolfy


now ,that is the correct way of looking at it.bullies is all they are with power to force others on things they wont them self.plunder of the citizens,no less.

reply to post by Naptown317


He is already divorced and the mother has the child.
doesn't theat count as being fatherless already?
If you don't live with your mother or your father than
you are either motherless or fatherless to a certain extent.

In that same situation I possibly would of commited suicide to,
Im going to get sent to prision cause I can't pay for child support
for the rest of eternity as I do not have a job whom my wife
can more than likely support herself and the children. That is
just sad.
Rather than Living a life full of # I'd rather die being happy.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Why is everyone acting as if this man is a hero? He was a coward who just abandoned his kids by taking his own life....

That is not a hero... That is a man who had a problem and was apparently not mentally stable enough to handle it like a man.

He owed Child support.... Lots of people do.... he chose to kill himself..... Forget his children, forget all those that loved him Forgot all those that he meant so much to and just hurt deeply.....

Hey, he just "stuck it to the man", right?

Sorry, I don't feel like celebrating.... At all.

( Not talking about this thread imparticular... It is just the attitude I have seen most take on this subject in general)

edit on 17-6-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

The man suffered from acute despair. Didn't you read the article? Your post cherry picks the facts that suit your heartless bias. It's attitudes like the one displayed in your post that lead people to do what he did. There was much more to it than just past-due child support.

Your lack of empathy and understanding for his predicament is disturbing.

I suggest you get a thorough mental health evaluation and enroll in appropriate therapy.

I am in the same situation right now. I lost my job in February and started getting threats from Child Support in the past few weeks to have me charged with contempt of court. First they suspended my license so now i cant go driving around looking for jobs. So I have to walk or take a bus. Yet they expect me to make a payment withing 20 days even though I have no income. I said i could not set up payment arrangements for the simple fact that i have no job this put me in this position to begin with. Basically i got no response and it was like talking to a robot, a brick wall. These drones do not care of course they have a job so how would they understand? What are my options? Commit to a life of crime to pay it? Join some domestic terrorist group ? I have been struggling in between jobs but this economy kills off every job i have has in the past several years. The jobs just are not there any more. Unless it Obamaconemy McDonalds created jobs.

Im pissed and depressed, and yes I have had constant thoughts of "ending my life"

Of course self immolation is overkill, I want it to be as painless as possible. Just in the process of picking my method of self destruction. In in some way i feel like "they" want this. They have undermined their own enterprise by creating as many obstacles as possible. Im a criminal now, guilty of being a poor male in America. Yes happy have a fathers days btw guys.

Originally posted by Naptown317
Idiot leaves children fatherless should be the title op.

It sounds like his kids were already basically fatherless because of the restrictions that had been place on his contact with them.

Originally posted by Tephra
So why the hell would you kill yourself. Just don't go to court. Go off and make your life wherever you please, and fight anyone who gets in your way. Sorry, but if you're at the point where you've got nothing to lose, where you are going to end it. What do you have to lose in seeking a new life.

I wouldn't go to prison either, you only go to prison if you want to.

edit on 18-6-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)

I he had just chosen to skip going to the court, the judge would have issued an arrest warrant for his failure to appear. Then the Sheriff or other law enforcement agents would have arrested him. Just failing to show up for the hearing is a very temporary solution.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


I sincerely sympathize with you bro. Think positive and hope for the best, and I am sure you will find a good job. We poor guys are all in the same boat; I got bill collectors calling me all day. And I hope you seek help before doing something like you mentioned.


Peace and blessings bro, be strong!

What is wrong with you people, insulting this man?
He is human, unlike you, those who keep pushing his memory down.
Are you really so cold, as to say hes an idiot, etc?
He felt like he had no way out, give the guy a break.

Honestly, I feel this is the ex wife's fault. Why isn't anyone blaming her?
She wasn't going to die over 3,000 and im sure she knew he didn't have a job.
She scarred her own children for life. She took those kids's father away. No she didn't set him on fire, but she might of as well. She's to blame for this whole dilemma. She screwed herself and her kids over. I hope she feels like sh*t for the rest of her life. I wonder how she will explain to her children how she wanted to throw their dad in jail, and he killed himself because of her.

This man is a human being, he didn't make a wise choice, but their is no reason to criticize him. It's messed up. He knew what was going to happen if he went to court, he knew what was coming to him. Im sure he had serious mental problems at the time of his suicide.

This is what i found.

You can perhaps sign over your rights? This is what i found.

You can not just sign the rights to your child over and walk away from your child support obligations. The courts will not allow a child to become fatherless, the only way you can sign your rights over is if there is another man willing to adopt the child. If you grant the mother full custody and you do not request visitation, you will still have to pay child support. The courts feel it is a childs right to be supported by two parents especially if they were at one time.

If the mother is draining you dry / try and sign your rights over. Once you find a job and get settled again perhaps you can give the KID money.

I wouldnt want to give the woman i divorced a dime either.

So if your X wife , has a husband and he is willing to Adopt him , you are scott free...

Otherwise , go to Britian , get a Citizenship , and change your name France would be better.

Originally posted by Naptown317
Idiot leaves children fatherless should be the title op.

You could also take into consideration......
replace "idiot" with "the state"
Cause thats what the courts do. They lock up the fathers for 6 months to a year for owing back childsupport.
While your in jail,you continue to fall further behind.
Because,your in jail,and you cant work to make weekly payments.
Also,because child support charges you 12% interest.

So,cause a person falls behind,dosent mean he belongs in jail.
And what happens when he gets out,more in debt,and now has no job? Oh ya....lock him up...again.

Rinse & Repeat

Heres an example from my city,and its common...

(JournalTimes)-Man owes nearly $7,000 in child support

RACINE - A 26-year-old Milwaukee man was charged Friday with 10 counts of failure to support his child, as a repeat offender.

Treyon Thompson faces up to 55 years in prison if convicted.

According to the criminal complaint, Thompson has not made court ordered child support payments since 2005 to the mother of his 6-year-old child. Records show he owes nearly $7,000 in child support

journaltimes.com...

Children first is Child supports mantra? Right.........

Originally posted by inforeal
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

I sincerely sympathize with you bro. Think positive and hope for the best, and I am sure you will find a good job. We poor guys are all in the same boat; I got bill collectors calling me all day. And I hope you seek help before doing something like you mentioned.


Peace and blessings bro, be strong!

Thanks

I really don't have the balls to go through with it. However i will probably crawl in to a bottle and kill my liver so i pass away from natural causes. The idea of leaving my kids and current wife behind i can not bare. Maybe they "CPS" and bill collectors ringing my phone constantly will cause some screws to go loose and I end up committed in a mental hospital. As I have all ready am becoming unhinged by this surreal realty , post 911 Bizarro World /twilight zone i am living in today. This is not the same world i grew up in. I have had thoughts of martyrdom and vengeance running through my head. These things i will not detail as im sure DHS will be knocking on my door if i did. These are just thoughts though, when push comes to shove i cold become a monster. My mask of sanity is beginning to slip though. I am filled with rage and disgust with this system.

I knew a guy that tried to kill himself a few times and got disability after that. Maybe if they drive me to insanity they will get their paycheck? Someone mentioned how the system labels people. I could not agree more. When i was younger I ran with a bad crowd got in to some trouble. Nothing big just fighting and public intoxication, resisting arrest. My probation officer told me i was a criminal, a druggie, a alcoholic heck if it were today they would call me a terrorist. Well i have stayed out of trouble and always knew she was full of crap. According to the system once yo break a law you are a criminal. Well then there are a hell of a lot more criminals then them. The master plan must be to have more people behind bars then free. That way they can make us all work for pennies on the dollar under a totalitarian state.

1984

I've been in debt before and I know how it can easily turn your already miserable life into a depression which then leads to suicide, it's a pretty complicated situation and I don't think everyone understands this.
What happens if he cannot ever pay, does he stay in jail for the rest of his life?

reply to post by Thunder heart woman


Your story really makes me sad.

Makes me worried for our future more and more.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I can't condone it either..

Suicide=" a permanent solution to a temporary problem"

But i read his whole letter...did you?

if not, go read the whole thing and then come back..

let us know if you FEEL any different then...

freekeene.com...