Man burns himself to death to avoid US debtors prison.

reply to post by civilchallenger


Wow! That greedy they could jail a man for owing just that much:

$2,200. to $3,000

Shame on them all! Bet his wifey is feeling a bit different about it all, now, kmowing that her children are gonna be scarred emotionally, knowing their daddy came to this unforunate end.

Was it worth it???

Nah! But too late for regrets in this instance.

May be the moral of this story is to stop dragging families through hell when things go wrong. When split ups happen don't let the courts get involved. They make a right mess of things.

When a man loses his family with all that stress, depression and loss, why put him through that hell???

As an outsider looking in all I see is depressed people taking the only option they feel open to them... this particular method seems (arab spring and whatnot) to be the way to make the statement just how depressed citizens (or slaves) have become across our world.

reply to post by civilchallenger


Clearly the system is incredibly stuffed, but no one gives a damn, money is the hierarchy in America. Who ever controls most of the money is on top, the rest is below. This is how the system is built, laws don't matter, rational, logic, justice, mercy, all of the above is blinded by money or by the person on top of the hierarchy. "Give me control of a nation’s money supply and I care not who makes its laws"

It is a shame, that an American kills himself in this fashion as form of protest, but no one gives a damn. Yes, let's talk about it, let's have a deep discussion, but what is the point of fruitless discussions.

May GOD have mercy on this man's soul. This is about the corruption, this is about the theft of American wealth to be spent on foreign murder sprees, this is about the theft of American wealth to be spent on bailing out big corporation.

Why haven't I seen a million Americans in the streets protesting the end to the insanely excessive defence budget, instead that money could be used to make American lives better. How can you sit and watch your brother burn himself to death due to his depth. And he was it depth not just because the Government spends billions in killing machines, but also because the system is stuffed, and corrupt to the core.

At this point only GOD can help America, unless Angels fly down through beams of lights, I see no other hope.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by Naptown317
Idiot leaves children fatherless should be the title op.

No, the title should read:

State Laws leave children fatherless

Even if he hadn't burned himself to death they could have said that with him being sent to prison.

Originally posted by Revolution9
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

Wow! That greedy they could jail a man for owing just that much:

$2,200. to $3,000

Shame on them all! Bet his wifey is feeling a bit different about it all, now, kmowing that her children are gonna be scarred emotionally, knowing their daddy came to this unforunate end.

That's exactly what I was thinking. What a pitiful amount of money to die over (though any death over money is pitiful). He was more afraid of jail then not being able to pay the money, but the state deems such a harsh punishment necessary for such a small amount of money. The mere idea of sending a person to jail because they can't pay money is absurd in it's self. This is just one small example of human insanity.

When people feel the need to kill themselves to escape debt, then something serious needs to be done. I have read about people removing their money from bank accounts, this unfortunate story is only making a greater case for this plan of action.

I send my condolences to the family, times are hard, but remember:

Oak trees grow stronger in heavy winds and diamonds are formed under pressure. Stay strong.

Originally posted by Heartisblack
I think poison would've been easier.......I mean I'm not crazy but damn!
There were other ways to do it that wouldn't have hurt so bad.

Well for some ppl its not about the easy way out, its about making a statement.

This was the catalyst method used in Tunisia that started the mideast uprising.

The original was a Buddhist monk in Vietnam.

Even a dryer vent piping exhaust into a closed car would be "easier".

He wanted to make a statement and he did.

The NWO prolly likes the idea that many will enact rule #1 of the guidestones freely.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truth
Why is everyone acting as if this man is a hero? He was a coward who just abandoned his kids by taking his own life....

That is not a hero... That is a man who had a problem and was apparently not mentally stable enough to handle it like a man.

He owed Child support.... Lots of people do.... he chose to kill himself..... Forget his children, forget all those that loved him Forgot all those that he meant so much to and just hurt deeply.....

Hey, he just "stuck it to the man", right?

Sorry, I don't feel like celebrating.... At all.

( Not talking about this thread imparticular... It is just the attitude I have seen most take on this subject in general)

edit on 17-6-2011 by gimme_some_truth because: (no reason given)

When some ppl are trapped and see no way out they give up.

This guy gave up.

You can feel better about yourself by insulting him, good for you.

Lifting yourself up by beating others down, all hail the self righteous.

I am not saying what he did is right, I am not saying he is a hero, but
I am saying prison rape and prison gladiator combat is not the answer
to fix this nation and that is what is going on in prison these days.

So why the hell would you kill yourself. Just don't go to court. Go off and make your life wherever you please, and fight anyone who gets in your way. Sorry, but if you're at the point where you've got nothing to lose, where you are going to end it. What do you have to lose in seeking a new life.

I wouldn't go to prison either, you only go to prison if you want to.

He just ruined these kids' lives FOREVER! Can you even imagine the guilt that will consume these two through the rest of their lives? Children have an inherent way of blaming themselves for what happens with their parents, It's called 'immaturity'.

With maturity, we realize (most of us) that we ARE NOT the center of the universe and the world actually DOES NOT revolve around us. Until this realization, we live in this funny realm of believing we are in control. If something very bad goes wrong, especially with a sibling or parent, the child will believe it was something they did to cause it.

Fortunately, as we grow and mature emotionally, we begin to realize we have very little, if any, control. We must protect the emotional welfare of our children the best we can.

This man destroyed his own legacy. How sad and unfortunate.

Oh God. This made me cry. Please let me explain why.

I seriously hate the child support system, it's corrupt and it's designed to punish the non custodial parent.

My brother fell behind on his child support payments one year when he became ill. He was forced to quit his job because he couldn't work he was so weak. He went to the court and filed for a hearing to explain to the judge what was taking place and that he would pick his support payments back up asap. The judge said they would note this change, and that this would not stop the order, but that he would be in arrears. Shortly after my brother was admitted to the hosp, to have many tests ran.

He got behind close to 2k. His ex went and filed contempt against him, even though she knew he was sick. On the morning he was to appear in court, he was in the hospital. The court issued a bench warrant, they came to the hosp to get my brother. My brother panicked, check himself out of the hosp AMA and went to court.

They took him to jail, where he sat for six months with no medical care, as punishment for not paying child support. He died two weeks after being released from jail.

The OP story really got to me, I cannot imagine the desperation and fear this man felt. He had to have felt extremely fearful because once child support gets you, they got you. 2-3K is not that much money either to be in arrears. There are dead beat fathers who have been on the run for years of their lives to avoid paying and they owe way up in the hundreds of thousands.

Police: Man Found On Fire Near Courthouse Dies


If you have the desire to read his 15 page letter, that he had sent to the Sentinal, before he lit up, here it is~> Sentinel

Personally, I didn't read any further than the 6th paragraph. ↓↓↓

My story starts with the infamous slapping incident of April 2001. While putting my four year old daughter to bed, she began licking my hand. After giving her three verbal warnings I slapped her. She got a cut lip.

Not sure why his hand was that close in the first place, but if he didn't like it, it should not have been there for a 2nd, and a 3rd, lick.

reply to post by Adyta


I agree with you. There are also women going to jail because they can't pay their support, my family knows one. This system that they have in place is designed to punish. How can they expect a man that earns only so much money to pay over half that or more to child support, and still be able to survive for himself, including buying the extra's he may want to buy his kids.

Not all non custodial parents are deadbeats, they just don't have the money, and desperately want to be able to fulfill that child support order and stay on top of it but the system makes it impossible for them.

Missouri has to be the worst ever too. That is where my brother died once they set him free.

from Wikipedia;
In 1833 the United States abolished Federal imprisonment for unpaid debts,[5] and most states outlawed the practice around the same time.[6][7] Before then, the use of debtor's prisons was widespread; signatories to the Declaration of Independence, James Wilson and Robert Morris were both later incarcerated, as were 2,000 New Yorkers annually by 1816."
Thomas Jefferson was a big debtor also. It seems the US civilization has lost it's civility in the last 150 years.

Just one more Authoratarian Orwellian case that shifts and seperates the masses. Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where the Oligarchy live by the same set of rules as their fiefs do

How about seeing our elite have a little "leader ship by example?"
Federal govt=+3.7 trillion in debt=print more money"no prison"
State govt=debt= no prison
Fiefs=debt=inprisionment

Tell me their isn't something wrong with this picture

Originally posted by SourGrapes
He just ruined these kids' lives FOREVER!

No he didn't. Those kids will realize why Daddy killed himself in their 30's and become very Anti-Government.


All you have to do is amend your State Constitution to ban Debtor's Prison.

Get off your rears and make it happen. Debtor's Prison is legal in this US locale....I ain't saying where it is.....I don't want everyone moving here to avoid Child Support. Pass the law in your own State.

I hate to say this, but he is a coward. He left behind kids, and much as I can feel his pain becuase my wife is out of work 3 years now, she works odd jobs from gardening to telemarketing to buy food. we find a way

debtors jail is BS, but if he did his time he could move on and start fresh. finding a job would be nearly impossible, but I know an ex- con who runs his own pool service company. nobody does backround checks on the pool guy

sad story all around

reply to post by HenryPatrick


Exactly the post I was going to make.

You can also add in the fact that you will be inoculated with whatever it is they decide, on your arrival.

They will take your DNA.

People are thrown in there for amazingly small amounts of money, couple that with all those who are jailed for "victimless crimes", and they have quite a large database of people under their thumb.

This man had no hope, or any expectation of anything other than more of the same treatment in the future. The "counseling" that was mandated no doubt interfered with his ability to work, and his driver's license was probably taken for some time as well.

The fact is; there are no jobs for those of us who have been "inside", and once you're in "the system", you're never set free.

I am amazed at people judging this man. He is dead now, and none of us know the torment he may have went through, therefore to me, I have compassion for him as a human being.

He may have done wrong in the travails of his divorce, and may be mentally ill, or did the wrong thing by doing this; nevertheless to judge this man and condemn him to me is out of line. Sure he is not a hero; but just an ordinary guy plagued by the reality of the imperfect world we live in.

May he rest in peace!

Originally posted by Tephra
So why the hell would you kill yourself. Just don't go to court. Go off and make your life wherever you please, and fight anyone who gets in your way. Sorry, but if you're at the point where you've got nothing to lose, where you are going to end it. What do you have to lose in seeking a new life.

I wouldn't go to prison either, you only go to prison if you want to.

edit on 18-6-2011 by Tephra because: (no reason given)

If I felt I was screwed by the system I'd simply leave the country and go
to a country that had massive wilderness and that is where I would
survive til natural events took their natural course.

I have no kids and I have been around several decades, and
I will die single with no kids, I feel the country is not a good
place for kids and work has been very unreliable many times.

Do like don juan and use a little lemon juice, and don't have kids
unless you feel financially secure.