Are the wild horses of the American west native?

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posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 11:27 PM
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Every living horse can trace it's ancestry to North America. That means that every horse that is and ever was is by ancestry NATIVE AMERICAN!

www.talkorigins.org...




posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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reply to post by RollaFarmBoy29
 


Using that logic, one could argue that "Native Americans" are not native at all, but in fact "Native" Africans...

Clearly they are not, however, as they have developed over tens of thousands of years into a distinct grouping of their own, like everyone else.

The same can be said of the horses. The North American species died out, possibly due to either human arrival or habitat change and have since been replaced by horses born and bred for thousands of years on the other side of the world, so clearly they are not "native".



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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I hate horses, i say get rid of em.... All of em... I prefer donkeys



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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well lets just say for the sake of argument, that there have been wild horses running around the north american continent for six hundred years.

that means that most of them alive now are born here. in my book that makes them natural born critters.
and that gives them the right to live as native animals to this land.

hell the U.S. is only 236 years old and any one born in this country is considered a natural born citizen.

i know people talk about invasive species, and the damage they can do, but this is just a land grab plain and simple.






edit on 3-10-2012 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 01:24 AM
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this is ALL

Agenda 21 and ICLEI

read Here for more

Agenda 21 is real and its here



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 01:25 AM
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Mustangs are feral horses. But that has nothing to do with the actions taken to round them up from time to time!

This is NECESSARY for their OWN GOOD. No one proposes to wipe them out completely!
It is done sometimes (and they are not killed, they are adopted by people) to keep the numbers at a level that the environment can support. We have killed off the natural predators that would have served that need in nature, so we must find an alternative.

If we don't, animals begin to get malnutritioned, and starve.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


i respectfully disagree and suggest you read my article. then read a lot more about agenda 21 and how it has become entangled in everything in this country.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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reply to post by Maxmars
 


1- No, the only true wild horses are the exmoor the tarpan and Przewalski's horse. What we have are feral horses that have had the best of them picked out of the herds for the past forty years. And if you haven't noticed Texas and a good part of the southwest has been in a record breaking drought for several years now and this scortching spring and summer took out thehay producers in the upper midwest so feed for horses that people actually 'want' are going to be in short supply.
Cattle grazing permits have been empty, no cattle there in many of them so that argument is out the windoe
Second, feral horses are not a native species, they are competing directly with them, they are there year around, unlike cattle permits of a few weeks a year.
Because of that, horses damage the fragile area, use up resources the native wildlife really need, especially in a drought.
Just as we as a nation decided to use some of that land for cattle permits, we also decided to introduce a feral species, as a symbol to some part of human history and try to manage it there.
There is some of that land designated for the feral horses and honestly, how much of it do you want them to live in and, as now, overuse and so destroy for all species?
Just as with cattle permits, that are there only in good years, under very strict regulations and for only a few weeks a year, we should let range managers, the BLM, manage those feral horses, not interfere at every step with goofy ideas and requirements and flights of fancy of the clueless public as you seem to be.
Why keep them in feeding pens at taxpayers costs of millions, better used for so much else we can use that money, or worse, just shoot them, as they do in Australia?
When you manage land, you first manage the land properly by stocking it right.
If not, you won't have any land and so animals thriving there left to manage, if it is private or federal land.
Better quality mustangs can be had from responsible ranches who raise them responsibly and cull the flawed ones. Once again since the 1970s the best of the mustangs have been adopted out each year leaving the remaining less than best horses to produce the next batch. There are a few acceptable animals out there but they are few and very, very far between. . You will not adopt the next HOTY out of a BLM herd so don't even dream about it, Buy yourself a lottery ticket,- the odds will be better. .
Why don't you speak to a farmer or two in NJ about the oh so rare whitetail deer and the crop damage they cause their response should open your eyes as to what crop damage a wild species can do. Beef does not come from a butcher shop it spends the first year out under the stars, eggs and milk do not come from a dairy they come from chickens and cows. Without crops you don’t have vegetables or flour for bread.
BTW I actually have horses. I am pro slaughter* (as long as it is humane and the horses are not transported long distances in bad trailers) because there are worse things than death that can happen to a horse. Go to a New Holland or Sugarcreek horse auction for a day - that should open your eyes.
*Not my horse I will call a vet to Euth.
edit on 3-10-2012 by VforVendettea because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by Another_Nut
 


I am pro slaughter, and I see the necessity for the BLM round ups. That is because I am also a horse owner and lover.

People need to put their romantic notions aside, and look at the reality.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Bluesma
 


I can understand culling. Different from slaughter. And most deffinatly different from what agenda 21 has in mind. Aganda 21 is the problem its not for the benefit of the horse or the People.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by Bluesma
 


I can understand culling. Different from slaughter. And most deffinatly different from what agenda 21 has in mind. Aganda 21 is the problem its not for the benefit of the horse or the People.


So certain biased sources claim.

To cull is to slaughter excess animals. Same thing.



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Maxmars


Clearly this is a subject that is dear to many. It may be because of the connection many feel to the horse as a companion to man. For others it is about the irony that lead to the horses reintroduction to the continent by despoiling invaders from Europe. For others still it's about the effect that commercial lust has on our environment and the apparent cooperation those businessmen get from the government.



Or for others, it may be that the emotional need for people to feel connected with nature and defend an animal that they admire is causing hardship for other people, and in some cases for horses themselves. Funny, how that never gets mentioned.

This claim itself is an absurd straw-man levied by environmental groups and this article is so slanted toward that agenda that it is laughable.

And please, for all of you that will flame me with the "commercial lust" and "cattle baron" argument, I've heard it a thousand times, and it simply isn't true, at least not in my part of the country.

Most of the people that I know that are leasing BLM land for their cattle are not rich, far from it. In fact, most of them are living in mobile homes, and hand to mouth every year. They are squeezed tighter and tighter by government sanctions, and laws lobbied by corporate factory farms that wish to edge them out, and environmental groups that wish to paint them as greedy, vicious and stupid work (largely) separately but with the same goal... to eliminate them. So, you're right, the government does protect the corporations, but maybe not the way that many of you think.

But most people don't want to hear this. They want to think about wild horses running free with the wind in their manes, and they want a boogey-man as well, and so this works out pretty well for the general populace (many of whom have never even touched a horse, and have only a vague understanding of where that beef steak actually comes from).

I have a theory (and I would reiterate that it is just a theory) that selling this Let The Wild Horses Run Free schtick is only going to benefit the real cattle barons in the end. They will still get their grazing land when family ranchers are pushed out, and if the corporate interests and government deign to leave wild horses they will be shunted to land that is not as profitable to live a marginal existence but hey... They'll be there, wild and free (with their hip bones jutting out and xylophone ribs), but the wind will certainly be in their manes, and that's what matters right? The public will be placated, and the Big Guys get what they want. Win win.
edit on 3-10-2012 by redhorse because: (no reason given)
edit on 3-10-2012 by redhorse because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 3 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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I am at a loss as to why they want to save the mustangs and are silent on save the condors, bald eagles save the buffalo but nooo nthey want to force those native species out to save a herd of ponies. Look on craigslist people are 'giving' away sound, gentle, broke horses for free.



posted on Oct, 11 2012 @ 07:16 PM
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Cattle are not a native species, and they consume massive resources. Meat is a luxury, not a necessity.





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